They aren't "kids" anymore. Semantics, but with the responsibilities required of them, I would argue they should be classified as adults or young adults w increasing expectations of responsibility. But it is a game! :)
MBB vs. Penn State thread
These are 18-22 year olds playing a game that is highly stochastic. PSU came out with a gameplan specifically designed to attack our weaknesses, and then went on a 12-1 run that we countered by eventually tying the game up. You can't expect to win every possession -- that's why games are 40 minutes long and coaches exist to make adjustments.
Has been pretty poor. It is never just one man (see Stauskas, Nik) but it also falls on help line guys and the two pass away guys who should be in the lane ready to give help. Really don't know the principles taught in relation to where they're taught to steer the ball, but clearly the help line guys aren't doing their job, either.
We're going to hit a few 3's and a few PSU starters will foul out. We will win by at least 15
Agreed. They put it all out there in the first half and will run out of fouls/gas in the second half when Michigan stops shooting 36%.
Doesn't coach b start playing more zone? Make a team like this beat u from the outside. Too many easy layups for a crappy psu team. The definition of insanity apply's to his defensive philosophy for our team. Just play a 2-3 zone for awhile and pack it in. Throw in a 1-3-1 every now a then. I am also amazed of what a terrible rebounding team we are on both ends of the court.
Requires solid man principles, which either UM has forgot or needs to keep working. They may be staying in man to keep working on POE's during the week of practice
Also can be used to hide / compensate for some of your man to man weaknesses. There are no fundamentals you can teach Nick S. from getting blow by with dribble penetration ( which btn just showed happening going to the break).
But if the helpline guys can't do their job, same things happen in zone. Guys get split, ball gets to middle of floor and trouble. If Nik needs to be "hid", then don't put him on the top. Well, not you, coaching staff
Would add is that in man on the pick and roll our big guys hedge so hard we end up alot of times with bigs up high and smaller guys underneath trying to rebound against another teams bigs. With a 2-3 zone you have less rebounding miss matches down low. Against teams with good big men (Minn, Ind, Ohio) we have been getting killed on offensive rebounds this year
Trey is trying to do too much, Stauskas seems to have misplaced his offensive abilities (and can't make up for it with any defense), GRIII has to be handed everything on a silver platter as it's now pretty obvious that he can't create any offense for himself, Timmy is in one of his annual funks and is trying to overcompensate for it by being over aggressive,and the only semi-competent big man we seem to have is MItch and while his energy is amazing, he struggles to finish shots and is a liability in the defensive post. This, combined with defensive play which can best be described as apathetic, is why we're staring at tied ball game against a team that is yet to win a game in Big Ten play. It makes me sick to my stomach and I fear for what is in store for us the rest of the season if this isn't fixed.
Good news is, all of their best players are in foul trouble, so I can't see the Nittany Lions hanging around much past the 12 minute mark of the 2nd half.
Okay I'm pretty concerned about this team gong forward. Defensively they're not getting any better. In fact they look like they're getting worse. Burke has to play hero seemingly every game now because he's not getting much help. There seems to be a very apparent lack of toughness and grit with this team, and there are no Novak/Douglass type players for everyone to rally around and look to for leadership. Not sure what's happened in the last week or so, but they just look like their confidence is absolutely shot. They're letting a god-awful Penn State team, which before today has had zero inside presence, dominate inside the paint and walk all over them.
If this stuff isn't fixed, and in a hurry, we're looking at another first round exit.
I was more encouraged towards the end of the half
- PSU lead evaporated, tied. Not ideal, but better than going into the half down
- Seem to be attacking the rim more. Yes, we've missed some easy layups, but overall I think we're near the rim more and that's encouraging.
Our shooting troubles are a bit disconcerting. A few games ago, we were a top 5 shooting team at over 50%, we're down to 49% because of the tough stretch, but State held us to 30-something % and we are only shooting 36%. If we can get some of our shooting back, we'll have no trouble (sort of, well, duh, I guess)
I'm wondering if the shooting troubles are coming because they are getting tired (especially the Freshmen). It's a long season, and their legs might be feeling it now. Weak legs and your shots are that harder to make.
Ok, so for the 2nd half, I think we need to get Timmy an open shot to get his confidence back up. I think GRIII has started to wake up and we'll see more action from him. Lets go Blue!
That was awesome!
Woah, where do they find these halftime entertainers. Cool hand painting.
"Penn State brought a lot more than five hour energy to this game"
I feel like the Wisconsin buzzer-beater broke the team. Hard fought game against a top-20 team on the road and Hardaway hits a clutch 3 to seemingly win the game. Then BAM, a lucky prayer. Since that first great steal by McGary to give us the lead in OT and subsequent missed lay-up, we can't hit shit and our D has gotten worse. The only expression is don't let the same team beat you next week. Well I feel like that buzzer beater is beating is for the third time. Really missing Novak and Douglass right now. Lack of senior leadership is showing.
That's what I'm thinking too. That's not a game you can just let go of and forget about. Those are the kinds of losses teams carry with them for a while, whether they're Penn State or Duke.
let's get this thing going and get hot for the rest of the season, the time is now!
Maybe we can put the "We can't shoot FTs" meme to rest today. 75% as a team in the first half.
It probably helps to actually get to the line more than once a game, too.
Apparently no one read Erik_in_Dayton's excellent piece on being a KU fan. Some of you folks have developed a ridiculous sense of entitlement. Get a grip.
No joke. We're a good team, but good teams struggle, too. Hopefully we're getting the crappy performances out of the way so we can win in March.
This is also a reminder that game threads are consistently filled with the most negative people on earth, and they usually don't know much about basketball.
What ad agency does the BWIII commercials? They are beyond brutal. It's like they were written by guys who not only don't actually....you know...follow sports but maybe by guys who've never even SEEN sports.
Opponent getting way easier looks than we are.
And this is the best it's been in a while...
John B does not recruit typical big ten players. And his style is not typical half court big ten bball. He likes to have bigs who play on the outside and shoot as well and this team is better suited to run. the last few games the team has fallen into letting the opponent dictate the pace of game and thats not good. If michigan can get back to playing michigan ball they are as good as any team in the conference. and remember 5 of top 7 players are freshman or sophmores. This team is young. So lets come down a little as a fan base.
the team is playing the perimiter way to hard for a team that can't shoot, imo, leading to way too may drives and cuts to the basket.
Michigan will do better and they will win a boring game.
Nobody is getting up to play PSU, including Michigan.
They still have a hangover, no big deal.
We have another long boring week of waiting to see Michigan play an actual team.
Great first shot, Tim...
Fadeaway, contested jumper from the elbow with 32 seconds on the shot clock...
Great back screen by Horford
If they play man just go iso against their PG with three fouls (ideally with Trey). He'll either foul out or give up easy buckets.
There's a really high quality stream if you have VLC 2.05. You just copy paste this link into VLC:
Niiiiiiice. Let's go!
Horford needs more run. He moves his feet.
Very nice start to the half.
Horford. The big fella brought some intensity out of the locker room and i like it.
I'd like to see Nik drive more, since he's an exceptional FT shooter
A layup made?!?!
This is the Michigan team i know off lets kick some ass
Just FYI, you are an idiot.
Time for Lasik.
Alright, let's hold them to 4 second half points
No way that was a foul..
He pushed him in the hip while he was in the air. Easy call.
JUST LET THEM HAVE THE LAYUP... WHY YOU FOUL?
NOT A FOUL
Well, there's the dumbest foul of the year.
That should be nominated for most perplexing call of the year.
nice pass there nik
are we forcing passes to horford in the post?
Because he was pretty poor on help defense.
Hopefully Morgan will hold off on that 4th foul so he can get some minutes.
So Penn St. is in foul trouble and short handed? Then drive the fucking ball.
I don't know what happened to Horford there. He was looking all over for his guy who was right in front of him.
I don't know if anyone in the NCAA shoots worse than 48% from layup, but okay.
If you read the boards here, you'd think we do.
Shit there goes my prediction of only 4 PSU points in the 2nd half.
Tom Hamilton is a brutal announcer.
was filmed in my hometown at my public park, just noticed that. Woah.
I've been wondering. The downtown Detroit one with the Fort St sign is obvious enough, but I don't know where that park is.
They just look lazy today for the most part. All of these fouls and several of them have been really unnecessary. It's tough to watch this team get progressively worse over the last few weeks.
I think learners and leaders should be the new division names.
Good to see Stauskas and GRIII more involved, now if Mitch McGary can get going to his potential too, I'll be really happy.
It must be really frustrating trying to figure out what they'll call as a charge.
Yea. It has to be. The thread last week, I think, was a good discussion on the "Charge" call now-a-days. I personally think it's ruined the game in ways. But to be out there playing and figuring out how a referee will call a certain "play" and to have it vary in consitency, has to be a very underestimated part of the game.
Edit: Especially for a freshman. GRIII picks up a charge call before what would have been a good drive and dish made three by Vogrich.
To everyone who was talking mad shit about Stauskas earlier: 13 pts, 50% fg rate, 4 assists, and 1 rebound. Granted his defense hasn't been great, he is a big part of our narrow lead.
+1 (literally) for taking the step back on that shot.
Man where is Hardaway today?
Maybe if you didn't turn the game off you'd know this.
Stauskas with a couple nice looks on that possession.
Who is this #1 guy?!
is waking up. keep it up dude.
Vogrich comes in and PSU puts up a 3.....
GR3 needed this. He's been strong today. It's against a weak opponent but hopefully it gets him back on track.
McGary is not having a game he's going to want to remember
Man, does he dunk angry
If anyone is looking for a laugh: OSU is losing to Wisky 22-6.
no doubt about it. i guarantee the alley oop to him was a point of emphasis in practice this week.
I like this version of Michigan basketball better,
Love it when we get a nice oop in transition like that.
For his defense
I want to tell myself the only reason GR3 is having this game is because we are playing psu, I sure hope not...
NO FUCKING DEFENSE
ALL FUCKING CAPS
What is going on?
Can't seem to hold on to a decent lead at all though.
two made 3s over vogrich in his two minutes of play.
Vogrich has left two guys wide open.
Vogrich has left two guys wide open.
and he looks lost out there, hence not building the lead, not surpi]rising.
Great to see GRIII come out of his funk tho
Are we going to lose when we play AT Penn State? Hell, we might lost at home.
i sure hope not.. i got tickets to that game
I agree. Why is Vogrich seeing the floor? He's been a huge hole in defense and offers no offensive help.
Timmy's 3 fouls.
He just drained that 3, if it weren't for the charge
Burke is not taking smart shots, guys.
In other news, Wisconsin is currently wrecking OSU at the Kohl Center, 27-8,
Yes Penn St. is awful but Wisc only beat them by 9 at home and Iowa, who is a decent team, almost lost to them twice. Great performance from GR III. OSU getting destroyed at Wiscy.
And the defense on that PSU 3 is why Vogrich isn't seeing any time.
Same crap as in East Lansing. No defense. Bad on the boards. Luckily, Penn State isn't a really good basketball team. But, we aren't either when we don't play well on both ends.
Hope this helps him and the team feel confident about those plays against tougher teams, too.
Vs good teams. That explains his "reappearance" today. His d reb and help d still are below avg
Well, State only beat PSU by 9, so, it's not like it's totally bad.
I'm surprised you don't see guys like Cazzie and Rudy T around the media and the program more often.
Wow. Please just take Vogrich out. He's not benefitting us AT ALL.
He would have just madea a three if not for GRIII charge call. Almost gets an And-1 and shooting FTs now.
Score update: Wiscy 29 Ohio 12
6:00 to go first half.
still in the game?
horford mugged that guy, but i will take it.
GR3 is playing good cuz we're at home. We goe on the road and we will see the same shit.
It's about time we go zone!!!!!
And we got a stop and pts! /hyperbole
Getting tired of the camera loving douche behind cazzie
That really looked like Shane Morris
At least we're drawing fouls this game, very good sign.
Brutal game from hardaway. Not playing with any confidence.
That is a crazy call on GRIII.
THJ with some Dr. J action
Vogrich assist on THJ make.
Damn, that was a tough shot. Atta kid Hardaway.
What was that foul???
Stauskas' money spot
put the pressure on and extend the lead
It's amazing. Vogrich out, Michigan starts building a lead again. I don't want I be "that guy", but maybe V shouldn't see the floor again today.
Nah. I want all the kids to get to see the floor at some time. I like Vogrich, I just think he looks lost out there. I'd like to see him get his time when were up 25.
Didn't see the floor during the last few games. Seriously, he's the reason today? Stretch that one out.
getting all those minutes about? What is coach doing?
Glad he's finally out and Nik comes in and hits a 3, moar please
Hopefully insinuating that just becasue one hits a bunch of threes in out of conference play that one's playing time isn't set in stone and that he has much else to work on. An upperclassmen on the bench has been around a few years and knows how to play the game too. VOgrich did just fine out there.
N the first half. Explain that poor performance by UM
Coach Beilein is a good coach but im not getting some of his substitutions
hard to believe that Mitch hasn't scored
Way too much Trey Burke heroball on that posession. Even if he did get to the line. Also, I'm considering cutting "FTK" in my hair like that dude.
how was that ball not out of bounds?
There ya go, Timmy.
I thought the top if the backboard was out of bounds?
No, all five faces are inbounds.
Ok. I always thought it was out. Learn something new everyday.
If and when the ball is bouncing off the top of the backboard and hits the shot-clock it is then a dead ball/out-of-bounds.
it looked like it bounced off the shot clock to me
Way to move your feet, Stauskas.
That's an interesting to say about someone who just drew a charge...
GRIII looks good when he flashes inside against the zone.
Wow...Burke has some pretty pretty shots.
God mode, engage.
That was pretty.
Sometimes I'm like "TREY BURKE WHY U DO THAT?!" and then the ball goes in and I feel silly.
He's 5 of 9 for 18 points.
Lol...cold like ice cold. Not cold as in not hot. Get it?
"Leaders do lead, don't they" Trenchant.
is a foul magnet
who the hell is this guy doing the commentary.. he has a penn state hard on
Still can't rebound....
That is something I just don't get. Four guys just standing there watching Trey Burke trying to grab a defensive rebound.
Defense is terrible.
Glad to see another team has a big men who cant make gimme lay ups...
The effort of PSU today is what we will face in the tournament. Will we have that same sense of urgency? That's a huge question mark.
Zak Irvin, Derrick Walton
defense needs to impove alot before the end of the season
Yes, I agree... ALOT
No interior D whatsoever
goddamn layup on D. morgan is probably worth 8-10 pts on D alone vs our other bigs.
Yep, that last layup was all on McG helping when he didn't need to. He's had a rough game defensively.
I think im gonna walk down the street to northland HS and kiss center court. Thank you Trey!
Wisconsin up 39-22 over OSU at the half.
I don't mind McGary biting on that fake. A bunch of made 3s is pretty much all that hurts you. His help D needs work.
but boy do we have a lot of work to do to get the wheels fully back on the bus. Boxing out and interior defense need to improve a lot if we are going to do anything in March.
So the D has been iffy most of the year, but it seems to have gotten worse lately. Is it really Morgan being missed? I don't seem to remember him being a huge D presence.
rotates on D a helluva lot better than our other bigs. many more layups are being made in recent weeks.
Check umhoops.com. Dylan had a nice write up about it, and statistically Morgan is one of our best defenders.
On perimeter is just as bad as interior D.
I think he's just steady and carries out his assignment. He's particularly good at what we've been calling locking the rails on the hedges. There were a couple times today when McGary and Horford allowed the guy they were doubling to turn the corner, which is deadly.
Soft and LAZY
They're up 8 with less than 20 seconds. Let them make their layup.
We cant play like this fellas. I fear the next road game.
All the old people that go to the games and can't even be bothered to stand and applaud a win at the end of the game suck.
It's been that way for years. Our non-students don't know how to be basketball fans. Makes me really jealous of Indiana, Kansas, and Arizona. Those are alum-bases who truly appreciate basketball.
I think "don't know how to be basketball fans" could be said of a lot of people on this thread.
They the same way at football games. 112000 fans and the stadium quiet.
Yea all those teams u mention are BB schools, Michigan is a Football school...as a matter of fact the Crisler Arena hasnt seen these many ppl in a lonh time, only the past cpl of years that we been good ppl actually go
Trey Burke saves the day again..great team we have here
Must really suck having our best player have a great game huh?
Yeah and its great when a whole team relies on one player isnt it?
I do wish we got off to better starts, though.
Double-double for GRIII.
Good job on boards but the stuff he got on offense today isn't happening against good D
After what he'd been doing, I'll take it any way I can get it.
obviously played a lot better on O today; not just the alley oopps but he got a few loose balls. hopefully a confidence builder. he still hasn't knocked down an outside shot in quite awhile. we need that part of his game back too. and his D still needs some work.
not impressive at all. if we were playing a decent team we woulda been in big trouble, let's hope this win got them out of their funk.
Eh, an unsatisfying win is still a win. Time to take a week off and recharge the batteries with rest and practice.
hustle around the way McGary does. Burke always working hard, but emotion not his game. Rest of team could stand to amp it up a bit. If you were ust looking at his stat line, you'd think McGary had an off night, but he had a lot of impact this afternoon.
This entire stretch of games has shown how much we miss Jordan Morgan when it comes to interior defense. It started with all of the offensive rebounds given up to Cody Zeller which pretty much all ended up being put back dunks. Mitch takes to many chances on steals and just isn't as good defensively rebounding wise or when it comes to positioning in the post. When we get him back the defense will go back to what it was. which wasn't elite but still damn good. I still think we can win the tournament if he comes back healthy.
You dont talk like your name.
And have -9000+ points? How is that possible?