Tennessee is not recruiting well just because they got 18 dudes
is 12-29-2013, I shouldn't have to explain that the idea that McDowell leaning toward MSU now 2 days before the new year is just another pile of garbage on the thick stench of the year that 2013 has been since mid-April last spring.
we seem to be holding on to some irrational hope at this point that as soon as 2013 is over, the black cloud currently hanging over michigan sports will magically clear. while i hope that's the case, i fear it's not.
I know I am.
Can't blame the kid for wanting to go to a dominate football program with proven coaches. Michigan is now a second tier Big Ten team with very little proof the coaches develop players for the NFL. It's incredibly painful to admit that Michigan is irrelevant in college football.
That proven coach lost 6 games last year, the same as Hoke this year. Also where are all these great NFL players from MSU?? Kirk Cousins has been an absolute disaster.
Can we start banning people who talk about Dantonio's 6 loss season in between his three 11 win seasons at a school that was a joke before he showed up and has nowhere near the resources Michigan does?
Can we start banning people that have decided based on one year (where they avoided playing the top 2 teams in the conference in the regular season) that MSU is know some national power? I really doubt Texas or Oklahoma freak out this much about Baylor. I also doubt that USC fans think that UCLA has become unbeatable because of a couple of good years.
No one said they were. The point is that MSU is a better program led by a high quality coach. And guess what? They are.
I don't know if either is a "national power", but I'm pretty sure if we won 11 games three out of four years, we would consider ourselves one. Maybe they aren't a prestige program like Michigan is (was?), but they are certainly better than us right now and its looking less and less like a fluke.
Your other arguments are deranged. UCLA hasn't achieved anything close to what MSU has the last 4 years. MSU beat the top team in the conference by 10 points. Baylor hasn't come close to MSU.
But you can go on pretending that three 11 win seasons in four years is just "one year". That's cool.
Wanna add a mention about a powder puff schedule in three of the four years?
What exactly was difficult about michigans schedule this year? The only truly hard game we had was at msu. The didn't have to play osu in the regular is bull crap since they dominated them at a neutral site when we lost at home. Taking advantage of a weaker schedule is what good teams do, see florida state. Our schedule was charmin soft this year too because the big ten is a steaming pile of crap, you can't use that as a reason that michigan is in a better spot than msu going into next year.
MSU has benefited from in state recruiting that has led them to a senior laden team this year. Why? Rich Rodriguez. That has since ended. MSU fans are terrified of our recruiting, and their inability to compete with Michigan.
Narduzzi is a good coach. Mattison is as well. Mattison is probably a better coach, frankly. However, when you're playing with guys that have no experiene in important positions, you look bad. Michigan looked bad against KSU. And MSU. They were in every other game this season (albeit looking bad during most of it).
McDowell may well go to MSU. I doubt it. But if he does, that's fine. Michigan has recruited a very good class this year. If McDowell is as good as predicted he'll play soon on either team. If he's not, then he'll play sooner at MSU, most likely, as Michigan has recruited 2 season's worth of very good Defensive Linemen.
This year is probably, most certainly, the bottom for Michigan. Look at the depth chart. The personnel. The kids that are freshmen and struggling will be better next year. They will be competing with incoming freshman talented at every position.
Deranged. Yes, it's deranged to think that under the circumstances presented that MSU is a better program. A better team this year. I'll grant you that. A better program? No, and their fans are well aware of it, and embracing their fleeting success while it is here. Just ask one of them who is honest.
Dantonio needed this year and pulled it out with an ez schedule. MSU loses 6-7 players off their D and their 3 best o- lineman. I dont want to see them get traction though from this by getting McDowell. In Tressel 1st year Lloyd Carr handed him his future on a platter with the worst called game evet. He was sinking at 6--5 but beat U of M and shortly after winning against us pulled in a top class which had been unraveling. Next year is big on mnay fronts.
He beat one team that finished in the top 20.
The tumbleweeds shall rule once again.
It looks like you're the one who's negging all the comments in this thread that contain even a whiff of criticism of UM.
Dantonio went 6-7. This is Hoke's third season. UM cratered under RR for a variety of reasons.So it wasn't like Hoke was taking over a strong program. It wasn't.
Now, having said that, it remains to be seen whether Hoke can take this program to the level it should be at.In no way am I saying that UM will win 11 games three times in four years. I just am pointing out where MSU was in year three of the Dantonio era.
Serious Question: Are Michigan and MSU football equals when it comes to expectations? Because that is what your entire profile of posting on this site suggests you believe. So maybe that's why you are such an annoying board member: You think that we should be an MSU-type program rather than an OSU-type program.
You read into others words what you want. To answer your question: Who cares? Fan expectations mean nothing. You can expect UM to be Alabama for all I care. Do I expect and hope that UM contends or wins national titles? Yes, but I also recognize that to get to the mountain top some schools cheat. I definitely don't want Michigan to do that.
My expectation for Michigan is to play tough, fundamental football, and to give 100% every time out. That is my expectation.
Got it. So Michigan football is more an MSU type program than an OSU type program when it comes to expectations, sustained success, prestige, resources, etc. That explains alot.
programs. I compare Michigan to Michigan.
I want UM to be worthy of the teams that won more games and Big Ten titles than any other. I want Michigan to be what Yost, Crisler, and Bo built this program to be--the Leaders and Best.That's what I want Michigan to be.
Right, so you don't get that OSU and MSU are on different levels as programs. OSU would be considered a national program. MSU would be considered a regional program (though who knows, Dantonio could be a good enough coach to make the leap). You're dismissing MSU's failures like they are on the same level as Michigan when it comes to recruiting, resources, prestige, etc. So you think we are a regional program, which means we are unlikely to be the "Leaders and the Best" or anything close to what Bo built.
So really, you don't even believe what you're typing, you're doing exactly what I said you were doing in the other thread: You're just disagreeing just to disagree, because that's how you're wired.
The football team is not the history of the football team.
Players need time to develop.
I would guess you have not been here long if you think Michigan's football team had all this well developed talent stockpiled under RR.
Le'veon bell is pretty good. Also, Edwin Baker had more yards than our beloved Denard. Spartys make an impact in the NFL. Take off your Tom Brady/Michigan goggles.
Bell looks to be good. Edwin Baker is Cleveland's 3rd string RB. You know 4-12 Cleveland. He will not be starting next year.
how much you hate to admit it, MSU has a better program right now and a much better coach. His players develop and produce and his defenses are light years ahead of Michigan's. Yeah MSU lost 6 games last year, but they won 11 this year and 11 two other times and they compete for the B1G championship almost every year. Michigan hasn't been remotely close to B1G championship worthy in seven years.
MSU has the best football program in the state at this point whether you want to admit it or not. If Hoke doesn't make some serious changes and fast, Michigan will be starting a coaching search after next season. The alumni and donors won't give DB much more rope.
If this was Texas or Alabama, Hoke would be gone already. DB took a chance on Hoke because of his love for theUniversity and the program. The problem is, the results point to him not having the coaching ability to go along with it.
We are at year three of RR all over again. Regardless of the overall records, the end result is about the same.
No. Msu just peaked. After they lose that D this year, they are about to take a big step back. They are ahead but falling and we are rising.
The biggest issue is out D not offense. Our DL is the worst weve had in 40 years.
Man. That's what somebody said in 2010. And 2011. And 2012. Each year their defense was just as good. Last year they were submarined by their lack of a QB, but Cook is young, so that seems all set for the next 3 years.
you are pathetic. MSU's defense in 2010 and 2011 was nowhere near what it as this year. Even the top programs in the country can't sustain a defense like MSU has this year. This was a special year for them..this is not all of the sudden what they will be from now on. And UM will get better, I can guarantee that. How much better? I don't know, but they are young in all the wrong places right now. I suspect there will be a small shakeup in the coaching staff as well. Life goes on.
I don't know why everyone on this site thinks its cool to be an emo pussy these days, but it's fucking annoying.
We're rising? When did that start?
Come again? I believe he has been rather competent in his limited playing time as a backup in that "tire fire" of an organization in D.C.
Correct me if I am wrong.
LeVeon Bell is looking to be a keeper for my Steelers.
Fuck Sparty! Stupid Spartans and them winning things and doing well and getting great prospects to consider them over us. >:(
i've considered malik mcdowell a long shot for um ever since brandon brown's update a few weeks back. but man it would suck if he goes to sparty.
Recruiting is arguably Hoke's last pillar still standing, but even that seems to be buckling somewhat in recent months.
will open DB's eyes that if something drastic is not done soon, UM football will not be the cash cow that it is now. When those luxury boxes go unfilled, then DB will make changes.
I was part of an alumni group in LA that watched footlball games together and all of the people there were big time donors to the UM. Attendance was always good, but starting with RR, it started going down. By the time it would get to the OSU game, more than half would stop showing up.
The attendance started picking up in 2011, but from what I have heard this year it was a bad as RR's last year. Contributions have taken a hit from the group as well. Money speaks.
The only thing that will open Brandon's eyes will be when the Big House is not sold out and/or alumni donations drop. Or when Mr. Ross tells DB to open his eyes.
You are right. Remember. After he left Dominos Pizza, their new executives launched a new advertising campaign which explicitly acknowledged in the commercials that Dominos pizza was shifty!
domino's pizza stock has exploded in price since D. Brandon left. I'm beginning to question his abilities as executive. . . He's managed to piss off boosters and alumni and alienate a great deal of the fanbase by charging absurd prices and now the quality of the product is suspect.
And that haircut... Woof
But the new marketing campaign developed while he was still there. And the stock prices soared because of this new campaign. Just figured the truth should be out there.
Can't say I fault the kid for wanting to play for the B1G champions and coaches that are able to make just about anybody into a defensive stud.
Why wouldn't he? This team needs Dline talent, whether already talented or developed, it doesn't matter. But without him our Dline better develop into semi-studs for 2014 or we're fucked again.
Not surprised. We haven't developed a pass rusher for too long.
He thinks MSU is the best fit and his parents think Michigan is the best fit. That's why he hasn't committed to MSU. Yet!! :(
Don't understand why they play beyer over Taco! He should of started opposite frank Clark!
I agree. We need athletes and speed on our defense.
Should have. Not should "of".
Should've = should have
edit: now the word should just sounds weird to me after repeating so many times. I hate that.
Yesterday's shitshow on defense certainly doesn't help in recruiting, unless you put all your eggs into the "Malik, you can start immediately because we're so bad" basket.
If MM was truly a UM lean he would have committed to us already. He knows certainly knows enough about our program and his parents are supposedly big UM fans.
The fact that he hasn't tells me he was looking for reasons not to, or there were things preventing him from pullling the trigger for UM. The respective end of the seasons for MSU and UM may have provided him with the reasons he needs to make his final decision.
Not a surprise at all at this point. Win football games and the rest takes care of itself. MSU is reaping the benefits of producing on the field and is starting to produce NFL talent.
We still have a solid class though and don't lose sight of that. We just need to prove it on the field!
Is Bosch enrolling early?
Without pass rush and sacks we leave our secondary out to dry! That's why MSU is so good! They have great secondary talent but w a 4 man pass rush they can do any coverage!
MSU does not rely solely on the 4 man rush. They do a lot of disguised LB and CB blitzes and count on their DBs to disrupt the routes at the line of scrimmage with press coverage. All of the pressure along with tight coverage results in a lot of turnovers.
If I was Malik McDowell, I'd be headed to MSU too...
Honestly, they have proven that they can develop talent, and they have had a consistently dominant defense for a few years now.
He only needs to play on run stops! He's too slow in pass coverage. Hope McCray can come in and play!
I think this could be the year Narduzzi finally leaves for head coach job.
I agree w what everyone is saying, but he could come in and play right away at Michigan!
Yes he could. We have a revolving door of lineman, which is great but also a curse.
the DE that went to Ole Miss knew he would play from he get go as a freshman. Hand and McDowell probably didn't get that sense so in their mind if I can't play right away on a bad line at Michigan might as well go to schools that develop Dline prospects and win.
Jesus take the wheel.
This is the same guy that everyone seems to say no one can get a read on and now all of a sudden someone proclaims they do??? I really doubt someone who has kept his recruitment so close the vest all of a sudden decided to tell some recruiting guy where he is going to committ.
I hate the whole "this" meme, but this is pretty spot on. Thus, this.
Obviously this is worrisome, but if you look at Wiltfong's full article, this is the only McDowell quote:
"I like the players a lot," McDowell said. "I like the school. I feel comfortable. I like Michigan State a lot."
The 6-foot-7, 290-pound McDowell himself would not say that Michigan State is his leader.
That's not good, but that's about what you'd expect a recruit to say about any school he's considering. I'm nervous, too, especially considering the way that things have been going, but there's a long way to go.
That sounds like a generic quote from a recruit.
Is anybody surprised by this news? I'm pretty sure our recruits have televisions and can see what we all see. I'm not calling him gone.....yet.....but it's got to be getting difficult to sell in state kids on going Blue when it's pretty clear the staff in EL is doing a much better job getting the players ready to play.
As somebody said ealier in the thread recruiting is Hoke's last pillar of strength. If that starts to crumble he's in real trouble.
As somebody said earlier....
The recruiting class is still very very good. It doesn't become bad because two players to fill out the class don't choose Michigan.
...but this is b/s. Yes the class is still solid and yes 2 guys don't necessarily make a class, but not getting Hand and McDowell hurts. BIG TIME. The class goes from elite to "solid" and we all hope for and except elite.
This is more than a "solid" class with or without McDowell.
But not getting an elite DE in the class is a blow, any way you look at it. That's a position that we need a playmaker, and we were obviously banking on at least one of the two.
Agree completely. If you look at our current overall ranking we are #20 on Rivals with an average star rating of 3.44 which is 13th overall of teams in the top 40. Solid. Not spectacular and certainly nothing close to what OSU is doing but solid. If we lose both Hand and McDowell the class will also be somewhat disapointing given what it could've been just a month or so ago.
Just pray to Tiny Jesus that Peppers sticks it out. At this point I think some type of coaching change is coming, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.
Agree and what hurts more is the dline at this point appears to be a position of major need.
Here are the comprehensive predictions over at 247Sports as of right now (LINK).
For the time being, it is 70/20 in favor of Michigan with a smattering of Ohio State and LSU to account for the other 10%. Most of the predictions either made or updated from the weekend before Christmas until now are MSU predictions, including Wiltfong's as mentioned. Many of the predictions were made earlier in the year, of course, so if other people have changed their minds, they have not done anything as yet - a limitation of this method, I suppose.
was going to choose UM, but as you perhaps meant to imply, predictions made six or even three months ago have no relevance or value right now.
Right now, we're coming off a dismal season that concluded with an embarrassing bowl loss in which our D played very poorly while MSU is playing in the Rose Bowl as conference champs with a nationally-elite defense. Draw your own conclusions.
Part of where I was going is that these predictions really don't mean as much as some think in the end. I took a quick survey of about half of the people who have their Crystal Ball picks in for McDowell right now, and sample size disclaimers and all that for each individual apply of course - the average came out to 70.78%. If that is reasonably accurate, then we're talking about dozens of analysts who are typically wrong a not insignificant amount of the time.
We are deep in the d line, he wont play for two years ......next
I'm sorry, but what an immature and irrational way of reacting. There are dozens of better ways you could've responded this news that wouldn't have made you sound like a little middle schooler talking to his friends after getting dumped by his first girlfriend.
You aren't coming off as very intelligent
Is gone, is anyone surprised that he's going to state? Look at the difference in defenses, it's almost a no brainier, better coaches too, unfortunately.
He's "trending" toward MSU? Like 70% of the time when he makes his commitment, it's to MSU? God, I swear high school recruiting "news" is dumber even than stock market narratives, which is tough.
Instead of trending, maybe the post title should use the verb "changing in opinion of some guy who has a job, unbelievably enough, to take moderately educated guesses at where 16-18 year-old kids might go to college in order to get affuent alumni to keep paying monthly subscription fees"
I doubt that anything more than a tiny, tiny number of UM alumni are dumb enough to throw money away to pay for recruiting "information" that eventually will be rendered moot by signing day anyhow.
UM's scout site has over 15K paying subscribers
So? There is literally no connection between being a UM graduate and being a member of Scout. None.
Yeah - zero correlation. One graduating from UM is as likely to be following the Oregon State Scout - right?
I visit the free boards over there from time to time, and occasionally glean some relevant information or opinion, but I would never consider for a second paying anything for "insider" information that will pretty quickly filter up to the general blogosphere anyhow.
You guys seem to think there is some sort of direct correlation between being a graduate of UM and paying for "insider" information on the Scout or Rivals Michigan site. That's like saying that buying Michigan football tickets automatically means you're a Michigan grad.
I was so excited with the thought of Hand and McDowell on a line together with Mone. Oh well, it was fun to think of, even if it was nothing more than early leans. It's hard to blame a guy for wanting to go to a program that has shown great defenses for quite a few years now. That said, although it doens't look good, I'm not giving up on the idea of him going to UM. Until he signs it's not over.
Does this surprise anyone? He's been a "UM lean" long enough that he needs back surgery. It is a loss if he goes to MSU, but that happens. MSU is the better team right now, and why wouldn't he want to go there for football? I do expect this story to change in the coming weeks, though, as both teams put on the full pressure. Yes, UM played poorly yesterday, but if MSU gets blown off the ball by Stanford, which is a possibility, expect to hear some stories about McDowell reconsidering.
I will say, though, that if the kid wants to play at MSU and only his parents are pointing him toward UM, that isn't going to end well if the winds up in A2.
Wonder if DB is going to start writing blog posts for prospects now. If we don't do anything in the offseason we'd better have a dang good season next year. No excuses next year.
Wow what a difference a few months makes. I remember Brian's rows of teeth post. That one seems like a million years ago.
And why wouldn't he be? We just got blown out by a middling KSU team and MSU has had their 3rd 11+ win season in the past 4, won 5 of the last 6 over us, and is playing for their 13th win in the 100th edition of the Rose Bowl.
We are a tire fire, they are not.
I was so elated with the team after the Notre Dame game, brimming with confidence, and the latter half of the season was an absolute nightmare.
More like the final 11 games.
God bless Mike Tyson.
Not jumping off the bridge for one recruit that may or may not be makng a big mistake.
I blame this on the Adidas curse!
Why wouldn't McDowell be considering them over us? They're fielding top defenses, they're winning, have beaten the crap out of us 5 of the last 6 years, have their third 11 win season in four years, and are playing in the Rose Bowl after beating the Almighty Meyer.
We, on the other hand, are a tire fire right now. Our defense can't stop a nosebleed, can't get any pass rush on any opponent, whether its Akron or OSU, and we're a middling program at best that just knows how to recruit well. That's about the last pillar we have left to stand on.
I hate 2013
I would seriously question his sanity if he favored us over state right now.
Except for the whole "I have to live in East Lansing for then next four/five years and attend university there" issue.
There is that and it is certainly an influence.
Well, I guess we are about to see Hoke & company's true ability to sell the program. Two ways for Malik to look at things--go with a current winning program and be brought up through the system, or potentially get early playing time and be instrumental in building a great team. Of course he could ditch the Big Ten all together and go SEC.
I gave up the recruiting ghost on November 14th.
Did I jinx it?
I wonder if Dantonio talked about money at his interview with MSU.
Lawrence Thomas says hello
Because were pumping out 5-star studs too
Check the 247 site and the most recent 11 predictions are all for MSU, that's what they mean by trending. He's at the UA All American game, must be talking.
I had written him off a while ago, then a week or so ago it came out that his mom now wants him to go to MSU and Malik appears to favor MSU now. Sucks to lose him, but royally sucks if we lose him to MSU. And we can only pray that his teammate, Lawrence Marshall doesn't follow him.
I can't even remember anymore, but somehow I would be less upset if h went to OSU than MSU. If MSU becomes a better school at recruiting we could be in more troublae than we already are.
Stop believing everything you hear and read. I'm his mother and the decision has not been made...
Pretty clear that MSU has the better program at this point as nauseating as that is to admit
Why even waste your time freaking out? The kid hasn't committed anywhere yet. Until he says he's going to MSU everyone needs to chill the F out. And why is it if a kid takes his time to decide he is suddenly not going to Michigan?! Recruiting is different for each player.
happened to the voting?
Edit: Nvm, it's back.