M grad Rachel Bachman in WSJ: CFB's attendance problem
Our own Rachel Bachman (regular sports/business staff writer for the Wall Street Journal) looks at college football's growing attendance problem.
Her focus in this piece seems to be the number of unused tickets, which might be a curious element of attendance problems, and one that is hard to gauge. (My main concern is always the basic cost of season tickets, and the number of season tickets sold. And as always, college football seems to have a big issue with haves and have-nots in terms of ticket sales and related revenue. Michigan, Ohio State and Notre Dame don't seem to have too many attendance problems.)
Still it would be interesting, if the scan data is good enough, to check on which portions of the Michigan Stadium crowds are the most problematic for no-shows.
August 30th, 2018 at 9:50 AM ^
Didn't we go over this in spades with Dave Brandon? The students are at fault because there's not enough marketing to keep them interested.
August 30th, 2018 at 9:55 AM ^
omg what if brandon was right, only a decade ahead of his time.
August 30th, 2018 at 9:56 AM ^
And the wifi! Oh, the wifi!
August 30th, 2018 at 10:25 AM ^
To be fair, it's pretty ridiculous that Michigan Stadium hasn't been equipped with Wifi yet. Would dramatically improve the game experience and being able to get in touch with people.
August 30th, 2018 at 9:52 AM ^
This always causes a kurfluffle with many of our posters, but it doesn't take much effort to see which section of Michigan Stadium arrives late or not at all.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:09 AM ^
Having now spent the better part of 15 years in Scottsdale, AZ and having attended more ASU games than I can count, I suggest the hand wringers back in A2 fly out and witness the absolutely pathetic scene that is the majority of CFB stadiums not the Big House including the stadium in Tempe for most games. It is one of the saddest displays of mediocre to regularly see a half empty 72k capacity stadium and where the people that ARE there remain seated and aren’t even watching the game most of the time.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:12 AM ^
I don't think what you said was false at all. Probably the debate is over what does it mean and why. I would say that section is probably the most important to long term viability as that is who will be giving the program money in the next 10-40 years. So kind of got to deal with the issues inherent with having young adults with busy schedules experiencing the most freedom and independence they've likely ever had.
And to go along with that, the bigger problem in my view, and perhaps this is skewed by my focus on UM, is that why aren't they showing up? It seems weird to me that in this case, we often blame the consumer for not wanting to buy the product instead of looking at the product to see why people don't want to buy it. I'm the later category personally. I just can't get excited for this season. The last 15 years since I started at UM has been a string of disspointments and no fun. Why would I want to buy that when there's so much other parts of life that can offer the opposite. I actually made plans this Saturday night. It's going to be the first season opener I miss in like 15 years unless my irrational love for UM overrides my ennui, or plans change last minute. With twin 22 month olds, the later happens quite a lot.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:21 AM ^
Our family has had season tickets since the 70s. It used to be easy as pie to unload extra tickets. Everyone wanted to come to a game. It was an event, something special worth setting aside an entire day.
Nowadays, it's not so easy, especially at the beginning and end of the season. People don't want to spend all day on one thing. They don't want to worry about where they're going to park or spending hours getting out of A2 at the end of the game. The in-stadium experience is no longer as special or unique. They don't want to worry about drunk assholes or squeezing into 10 inches of seat or how they're going to get to the bathroom and back in 20 minutes or less. Or baking in the sun or soaking in the rain. Because the couch and HDTV. And myriad other things people would like to do with their weekend.
I'll admit, even as a college football diehard who goes to a lot of games, I'm beginning to agree.
August 30th, 2018 at 11:34 AM ^
It's pretty easy to understand. Way more expensive + not as fun of an atmosphere most of the time + more commercials + not winning = less people.
We got soccer fans who bring flags, banners, signs, fireworks, etc to games, it's a party in the stands. We're not allowed to bring anything anymore, including water. Nobody wants to just stand there while nothing is going on.
Plus people were always creating new things which caught on as traditions after a while, now we're kind of stuck in a rut as far as what to do next. Like, we've had the same routine for games for so long it's now boring.
August 30th, 2018 at 5:06 PM ^
Exactly this, it is the experiential aspect of attending a live game that makes it special and worthwhile, as much as the game itself. Traditions new and old, participatory cheers and elements, making noise, standing up and being loud/rowdy, etc., all contribute toward the live game day experience and IMHO have been largely eliminated or watered down over the last decade or so. Piped in music at every break, no signs or banners, a general attitude of "down in front", narrower seats, all the reason people have listed here have
If you want to "watch" a game, the couch and HDTV is probably a better and much cheaper option.
If you want to participate in a game and experience it, the stadium is worth the $$, but the ability to do that has been curtailed as of late.
August 30th, 2018 at 11:37 AM ^
As you stated, HDTV, time involved and another big factor, cost. Why go through the time of driving, parking walking and waiting while paying out the nose for sub-par food when you can stay home, pause the game if you want, eat what you want and still have a great time? And it won't cost and arm and a testicle to do it.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:37 AM ^
Why are the students not showing up, or showing up late, or leaving early? I don't think it is any one thing, but there are a combination of some factors that I think are sort of obvious:
- Current students are more than ever wired for tv and digitalized experiences. Game day is about a game, that starts at a certain time, and you can miss the beginning and still get the gist, and it ends whenever any one team establishes an insurmountable lead. And there is always a big HDTV back at the apartment. For other patrons/alums, game day is a day-long experience, with tailgating, socializing with long-time friends, and traditions. Seeing the band enter the Stadium, and seeing the coaches shake hands, are nearly as much a part of it as the score.
- I have some sympathy for students showing up late. Some sympathy; maybe not a lot, but some. Because student tickets are underpriced to the market, they need to show i.d. And they need to enter through the North gates and present that i.d., right? And what happens, is they all show up at the last minute, and those gates get colossally clogged. The root cause is their cheap tickets, which the University is trying to offer to students alone, requiring the presentation of student i.d.
- Speaking of cheap student tickets, I just wonder whether we'd have fewer students who showed up on a more devoted basis, if their tickets cost more. It is pretty startling, seeing the entire Stadium fill up with alums and regular season ticket holders, and the student sections remaining half-filled until about seven minutes into the first quarter.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:55 AM ^
Section 1.8,
Are you the old Section 1 from this blog years ago? Are you connected to that person?
It’s uncanny how you have such a similar user name and so many similar ideas that the general blog doesn’t share at all.
August 30th, 2018 at 11:14 AM ^
Yessir. I am very, very closely connected to Section 1. So closely connected you could hardly believe it.
What I wonder -- and I am totally serious about this -- is how many general ideas about the football program are shared by (a) the MGoBlog membership versus (b) the people who attend the games.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:56 AM ^
Is your name David Brandon? Current Michigan students are going to be the next batch of season ticket holders and donors 10-20 years from now. Pricing them out is an absolutely terrible idea.
Beyond the obvious long term ramifications financially, it's just so wrong on principle. Student tickets should be affordable and available for any student who wants them. That's the Michigan way. Let's not bastardize college football anymore than it already has been. Student sections are a special part of the college gameday experience: let's keep that.
August 30th, 2018 at 11:39 AM ^
Maybe more students would show up if the school put in a "safe space" zone for the students to sit in?
August 30th, 2018 at 9:56 PM ^
Got the “crap” part right.
August 30th, 2018 at 12:16 PM ^
I was with you through point 1, but you lost me at the cheap tickets being bad part. The whole point is to give students a chance to enjoy the game even if they're otherwise broke. My student seats back in (mumbles) were 6 bucks a game. I got them as a freshman because it sounded fun and became absolutely rabid after attending a few games. Keep those student tickets cheap!
TV is likely the bigger issue. It's great that I can watch every game from here in Chicago, but it's logical that the students are more likely to stay home and party in front of the TV as a result of the full schedule being televised. I believe there were three televised games a year max back in (mumbles) so we went to every game. The alternative was Ufer, which was great, but not the same as being there.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:21 AM ^
Yes the students are less likely to show up on time or at all for cupcake games. They are also the only fans in Michigan stadium who make any noise and a half full student section is still the best part of our in stadium fanbase of of people who sit on their ass and clap politely during anything that isn't a 3rd down against a top 10 team in a close game.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:53 AM ^
Couldn't agree more. I'm always disappointed in how quiet and lackadaisical the non student section is and I don't think I'll ever want to sit there even though I graduated a few years ago.
In terms of gameday experience, it's worse today with all the terrible piped in music, almost no band play, average half time shows, and lack of cow bell!
August 30th, 2018 at 11:02 AM ^
Students who are not in the Stadium don't make any noise in the Stadium.
August 30th, 2018 at 11:19 AM ^
They make the same amount as noise as most of the rest of the stadium during an average play.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:41 AM ^
What people forget is that Michigan is pretty unique in that they have set aside enough space in student section for every student who wants to get season tickets. I know there are many big program schools with limited student section, where you don't expect tickets until your Jr. or Sr. year. The result at those schools is that those who get tickets are much more likely to attend, and also, the secondary market is much more active for those cupcake games, because that may be many student's only chance to get into student section at reasonable price.
August 30th, 2018 at 11:03 AM ^
Yes. And the best example I can think of, having witnessed it, is Ohio Stadium.
August 30th, 2018 at 11:15 AM ^
OSU also has double the student body population of Michigan. Its not exactly apples to apples. Also OSU fans outside of the student section actually make noise and so losing student sections seats isn't losing as much atmosphere for them.
August 30th, 2018 at 11:16 AM ^
I'm so glad that Michigan still grants every student a right for tickets. My two sons attend Clemson and it is ridiculous how hard it is for students to get tickets. I know a junior who only got tickets for 1 game in the lottery they have for students. And their students are bonkers at the games. I know that the students underperform at UM in attending games. But the university is for them, after all. As a matter of principle, every student should be able to get tickets.
August 30th, 2018 at 9:55 AM ^
i can't access the wsj article and don't care enough to find a back door, but why is an empty seat a problem? someone paid for the ticket, the program gets the money, who cares if they show? honestly with those narrow ass bleacher seats at Michigan Stadium, I'd be happy to see a few of my row-mates skip to make more room for my fat butt
August 30th, 2018 at 10:05 AM ^
"someone paid for the ticket, the program gets the money, who cares if they show?"
So, what's your threshold for how many empty seats in the stadium is a problem? 20K? 30K? 50K?
August 30th, 2018 at 10:14 AM ^
I think the NCAA though the hockey playoffs has proved that 100% empty isn't a problem as long as the money keeps coming in. Wherever the balance between appearances and money is, that is where they will draw the line.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:20 AM ^
I think the issue, as indicated by the article, is not just that attendance has been falling, which is true across the board, it's that it may be falling far more rapidly than people realize. An empty seat means schools don't get money from concessions, parking, etc. For a school like Michigan with oodles of money, having 10,000-15,000 less actual people at a game is a negligible problem. For mid-majors, that can be a killer issue.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:24 AM ^
In game attendance for a memorable experience builds a lifelong fandom. If people aren't going to games or the games they go to are listless and empty you aren't building your new fanbase. If someone took their kid to the ND night game that kid is a fan for life, if you took your kid to a half empty noon game against deleware state your kid is likely bored halfway through the game.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:35 AM ^
I really think you're overvaluing sheer volume. There's more to the Michigan Stadium experience than having a jet engine going off around your head for 3 hours.
August 30th, 2018 at 11:17 AM ^
A good experience involves engaged active fans who are working to make a difference on the stadium. The tailgaiting and hanging out during the day is also fantastic part of the experience. But for an actual in stadium experience if all I'm doing is sitting and watching next to other people sitting and watching then I would rather watch on tv. I want to be part of an atmosphere you can't recreate at home when I am at the game and 110,000 people sitting is just the same atmosphere of 15 people sitting in my living room.
August 30th, 2018 at 12:28 PM ^
Maybe some people want to enjoy watching the game in the stadium without having you scream in their ear nonstop for an afternoon? As so many have pointed out in the RAWK era, noise for the sake of noise is one of the worst things to happen to the Michigan Stadium experience. I shouldn’t have to stay at home for the luxury of enjoying watching a game.
August 30th, 2018 at 9:58 AM ^
it's the youngin's passed-out in the bushes on hoover.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:00 AM ^
I’d say as recently as the nineties, it seemed ticket prices were manageable even for the havenots. I graduated and moved west and the whole system went to hell.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:26 AM ^
Yeah Northwestern was winning so many chanpionships before nike deals. TV money has actually leveled the playing field because now everyone has enough to compete. There is a diminishing return on money, having a waterfall in weight training facility isn't actually doing anything to help bama win, its just a way to spend the money they make so nobody accuses them of turning a profit off amateur athletes.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:06 AM ^
Ya, big problem selling tkts at M ND. only $400 a pop.
Give the public big games, attendance is not a problem.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:13 AM ^
Zeke21. Says some stuff. Makes clear he doesn't really care or want to think about it much anyway. Zeke's work here is done.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:08 AM ^
I can’t read the story, but I bet online scalpers buy a block of tickets and only sell a portion of them. Thus the tickets have been “purchased” yet no one goes because they haven’t been scalped/re-sold.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:11 AM ^
Cost is a problem for me these days. Do I take the wife and kids to the OSU game, or do we take a weeks vacation? Because I'm spending the same amount either way.
The last few seasons I've only been going to one or two early cupcake games, and that's it. I haven't been to The Game since Lloyd was coach.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:29 AM ^
Think about how many of us were indoctrinated because we could go to a game as a kid. The old John U. Bacon story about being dropped off the gate with $10 for a ticket, a plastic football, and lunch. We were nabbed from an early and impressionable age because the experience was affordable and accessible for families.
Not so much now. For young families, I think you're spot on with the observation that it's a vacation or a Saturday at Michigan Stadium. Between parking, tickets, food, and god forbid your kid(s) wants a t-shirt... You're looking at hundreds of dollars.
August 30th, 2018 at 11:30 AM ^
There’s a small chance that I might be able to make my first home game since 2004.
The catch is cost. I’d take a vacation (we normally take one in the summer, but not this year) and drive to Michigan. I can handle that.
But to go to a game I want to take my two oldest daughters, like my dad used to take me. I can’t tell you how much I want to do this. Show them the commemorative brick my dad and I got together, see the band take the field, sing the Victors with 100,000 of our closest friends.
It would be great.
But it is soooo expensive. The only weekend we can make is Wisconsin, which isn’t OSU but it isn’t cheap. There’s a premium for more than two tickets, and I cannot take one and leave the other. I’ll probably eat carefully to avoid buying food inside, but it won’t matter. The market will set up in a couple of weeks and right now I doubt I’d spend less than $300 and maybe more.
The game would cost more than the entire rest of the trip combined. That’s a lot of money for me, and I’m the type to make it one of my top recreational expenses of the year.
Thats a tough ask of fans. It sounds like there are a lot of people like me. The ones that live close go to a game or two a year instead of 7. Others go to zero instead of one or two. Even if I lived in A2 I would probably just go to a game or two, not all of them like I used to.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:50 AM ^
Yep, the prices are starting to leave some of us behind. It's getting hard to justify spending that much money to sit in a cramped space for hours, especially with all the TV timeouts.
I have a kid in the MMB so we go to a game every season, we get to buy 1 or 2 pairs of tickets through the band, but the price break isn't that much, only about 20% (c'mon, really?). MMB Family Day is the PSU game and it was $175 a pop, so I don't imagine too many families attending. And the tickets they sell us are in a section they also allocate to Stub Hub, so we get to sit close to a lot of opposing fans.
So instead I buy Youtube TV and watch it at home.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:15 AM ^
Attendance is down because Americans have gotten soft. The traffic, the cost, the hassle, etc...
Try standing in line for bread for three hours.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:39 AM ^
There are some schools reducing their stadium sizes though as well...Alabama being one of them. Not by a lot, just a couple thousand seats to try to improve the in-game experience.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:51 AM ^
We should do that by making the "seats" a couple inches wider. I'm not fat (by American standards), and there really isn't enough room for me to be comfortable. I'm just used to being smashed in there having to touch a strangers arm and hip for 3 hours. My wife hates it.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:41 AM ^
I’ll just drop this here. My family has had season tickets since the 70s and we aren’t dropping them anytime soon.
HOWEVA, it would be a big upgrade if they’d just give us a continuous ticker of other scores around the country. I wouldn’t give a damn about WiFi because that is all I’m looking for anyways. Not sure if it would fit, but a highlight or two from another game during a TV timeout would be a nice add as well.
August 30th, 2018 at 10:45 AM ^
Heck, just fix the scoreboard graphics in general to make the whole thing more user-friendly, aesthetically pleasing, and, well, useful.
August 30th, 2018 at 11:09 AM ^
Agreed.
And because I am not and never have been a luddite; I want to say something for the fans who rather like seeing some good football on television.
Video replay on the 'boards in Michigan Stadium are the worst. The worst that I have seen among any B1G conference school that has the capacity for such replays. Michigan Stadium uses its own in-stadium video feed. The camera work is often crummy, too tight to the action/football to see what really happened on a play. And Michigan Stadium is sociopathically averse to showing the replays of disputed officials' calls.
I've been to many recent games in Spartan Stadium, Ohio Stadium, Camp Randall and Ryan Field. Michigan is the worst with its replays, followed by Ohio State. I don't know what it is; I don't understand it.