Let's talk recruiting pipelines
Pipelines. All the big boy schools have them. Michigan has Cass Tech. That one is undisputed. They have taken players from there in 5 of the last 6 classes and multiple players in 2009, 2012 and 2013.
But what makes a pipepline a pipeline? Other than the obvious listed above.
Would Trotwood-Madison be considered one since Michigan has two incoming players from there this year and just graduated 3 in the past two seasons? And what is the history of recruiting pipelines at Michigan? Modern recruiting rankings go back to 2002 so I'm not sure how far back one could dig unless they spend countless hours on the Bentley database.
Also, what breaks a pipeline? Losing Damon Webb from Cass Tech is a huge and alarming loss for Michigan given he is the top player in the 2014 class from Cass. Michigan has taken a couple of good players away from Glenville though, ohio's pipeline with Frank Clark.
Michigan has 3 solid chances for 2015 though to state their dominance at Cass Tech once again with Mikey Weber (offer), Josh Alabi (offer) and Jayru Campbell.
What say you recruitniks?
having a coach that encourages players to at least a particular college, not coerse them(I'm looking at you, Ted Ginn Sr.) into it. Players going to school X is nice, but it can be fleeting. If Cass Tech has a stretch of not having players deemed to be on a Michigan level, the next kid may not have any former teammates in Ann Arbor, but Coach Wilcher will probably put the Michigan bug in his ear, if it isn't there already.
A pipeline is more like a relationship between the high school and the university. The high school is happy to send students to the university because the students generally do well, get an education, and graduate. The university is happy because they get reliable students who are well-scouted and well-coached.
The pipeline breaks just like any relationship. Examples include:
- a college coach pulling a scholly at the last second
- poor/rude/disrespectful behavior by either coach
A kid from a feeder school NOT going to the pipeline uni shouldn't be considered 'breaking' the pipeline, but rather as an exception that proves the rule. Not everybody wants to go to Michigan (I know, crazy), and so sometimes kids will go elsewhere. It's also why Michigan maintained their Cass Tech pipeline last year even after the Dawson brouhaha. The fact of the matter is that Thomas Wilcher trusts the Michigan coaching staff, and vice versa.
The quality of the pipline truly lies in the relationships between
a) the two head coaches
b) the two athletic directors
c) the experience the students have after matriculating
Really, it all does come down to trust.
Another factor of what is called a “pipeline” is being overlooked here. The high school has to produce a decent number of big time recruits over the years either by sheer size or prolific sports ability/coaching to get the reputation. CC, Cass, Harrison, etc. all get looked at as being pipelines while other schools don’t because they don’t consistently put out 1 or more quality 4+* each year. Several other larger schools that don’t have as a strong a focus on football (ie, Southeastern, Denby) or smaller schools that don’t consistently produce Div 1 talent (Riverview Richard, Lumen Cristi, DH-Robichaud.)
I submit there are numerous “pipelines” though not as notable, ie AA Pioneer, Inkster, Saline, Birm. Brother Rice, that though they may not have strong talent consistently; when they do they tend to head to certain schools (in these cases UofM)
I wouldn't call losing Webb a huge loss. Maybe he grew up an Ohio State fan, or maybe he wanted to be different than all of his team mates going to Michigan. Even if he turns out to be a great player, stuff like that happens to every team. Now, if we were losing multiple kids from Cass Tech to other schools, especially Ohio State, then it would be alarming.
Although I approve the beer while reading MGoBlog, I don't think you're points are as strong as they appear. A) As a general matter the failure of one recruit has little if any bearing on the success of another recruit. The only evidence we could take from any other CT corner's failure to extrapolate to another corner would be that they lacked the necessary coaching coming out of school. Also, Webb is the most highly rated of the corners coming out of CT. Additionally, this came up on Magnus's blog the other day, I think people overemphasize the lack of production from CT corner's. It's tough to make a rulingon Cissoko because he clearly had off the field issues that preventing him from being able to reach his potential. Hollowell was a much lower rated recruit out of CT and was very small. Additionally, he may be reaching his potential this year. Richardson was a tiny freshman last season that should have RSed. It is still too early to say that he has failed. I haven't paid attention to Mathis' career so no info there. Thus, we have one failed CT corner based on off field issues, Hollowell potentially making a significant impact this year if the spring hype bears fruit, and too soon to tell on Richardson. B) Peppers is probably the closest thing to a sure thing; however, he will play boundary corner (and possibly play safety). Webb would/could play field corner. That would be an impressive combo. C) True, however, Westphal's recruit seems a little odd and he still hasn't committed despite loving us for a while. Adore Jackson wants an elite track program which we lack compared to all his other suitors so unless we can WOW him, it will be tough to land him. Besides those two, what other elite corners are we in on. I know we just offered a guy at camp who looked really good so maybe him. But even if we didn't land him, he wouldn't be playing at Ohio. Webb will be.
He was a guy we really wanted (before Peppers committed) and was in our own backyard, at our own pipeline.
A blow any way you look at it IMO. Kid is a hell of a player.
But now that Peppers is coming I feel a lot less worried.
Well obviously. However, signing talented recruits is part of the recipe to winning. Thus, signing talented CT players could be a building block to winning. Webb is possibly the best CT player to come out of CT in years, since possibly Barksdale. I believe he is a unanimous top 100 recruit (haven't checked but would assume he is or close). Of all the potential corners from CT, he is the biggest and most phsyical. He is a kid in our backyard and will be suiting up next year for Ohio. Losing elite recruits in your home state, particularly when your state is Michigan, is not a recipe for success. As a matter of fact, it was a problem that RR faced and played a role in his failure here. If your point is that losing recruits will happen but the coaches can still win without landing every top recruit, then that is a valid point. Otherwise, it's rather meaningless.
not certain, but it didn't break the pipeline. Yes, Trotwood, since RR's first year could be considered a "developing" line because we get one almost every year, and they have been producing D1 talent. CT, of course. Think you are answering a lot of your own questions.
Ha. That's what I thought you were trying to say. Believe me, I don't really care and I doubt the OP or most people on the blog really do. It sucks we didn't land a top recruit but I don't think most people have bothered to think twice about it.
I wanted Webb as badly as OSU wanted Dymonte. After recruiting cass tech corners for going on 6 years now, Webb is far and away the best of them all. I wanted that payoff. Webb is a great player.
In a case such as Frank Clark, when OSU didn't even offer. Cass players have gone elsewhere fairly regularly, not just Michigan. Even last year, although Michigan offered late, Finley went to MSU. Now Drake is going to MSU, but doesn't have a UM offer. By no means does that mean that more often than not Michigan won't get their players from CT.
Statline from Oregon site-
2012 — Made five stops, including 1.5 TFLs for a three-yard loss and also had one pass breakup in win vs. Colorado … Had one solo tackle and intercepted a pass at Arizona State and returned it for 42 yards … Recorded one unassisted tackle in win over Washington State … Had first collegiate interception for 28 yards along with three solo stops and one pass breakup in victory vs. Tennessee Tech … Made four tackles in win vs. Arkansas State.
2011 — Appeared in five games, recording seven tackles … Had a career-high three solo tackles in win over Oregon State in the Civil War … Recorded one tackle for a 1-yard loss in victory at Colorado … Two solo stops in win vs. Missouri State and one tackle vs. Nevada … Recorded a 31.5 inch vertical leap, fourth among defensive backs and took first in the 40-yard electronic dash (4.74 seconds) during winter conditioning … Made three tackles (2 solo, 1 assist) for the Green Team in the spring game.
2010 — Made one tackle in Spring Game for the victorious White team …Won the “Football 60” exhibition race at the Oregon Twilight track meet, covering 60 meters in 6.87 seconds to defeat four gridiron teammates.
All his playing time was in garbage time when oregon was spanking teams.
Michigan was not an option for Dior when he picked Oregon, so he didn't pick them over us. RR and Gibson liked him better as a slot.
In my opinion a pipeline is a school that a college staff is extremely familiar with professionally and personally. So when a kids coach is singing his praises, the recruiter knows that he's getting a legitimate appraisal of the kid in all aspects of life. I think the only way you could break a pipeline would be if one of the staffs, just flat out stops all communication between the two organizations. So I think breaking a pipeline is extremely difficult.
Only going back about seven recruiting cycles, including this one now in process, you get some definite patterns even with the coaching changes. For purposes of detailing behavior, I will confine this to quantifiable things.
10 recruits from Cass Technical in Detroit.
4 from Trotwood-Madison, in Trotwood, OH.
3 from Liberty HS in Youngstown, OH.
3 from Pahokee HS in Pahokee, FL.
Also in this would be at least two (in some cases, more than that) from Ann Arbor Pioneer, Glenville Academic Campus (Cleveland area, I think), Wayne HS in Huber Heights, OH, Catholic Central in Novi, and a few others, particularly recently. It seems like there are several that are opening up, just based on recent data.
PiHi just comes naturally as a pipeline. Hoke can just yell out the window "HEY! Who wants to come play football at Michigan?"
And they're lining up.
Did your avatar just learn about Webb commiting to OSU?
someone beat me to it, but everytime you say something rational and soothing, I can't match it up with the avatar.
We've only offered one QB in 2015 and his name is Josh Rosen from CA. He looks great. He's also the number 4 or 5 player overall in the early 247 rankings.
With Josh Alabi, Jayru Campbell and Mike Weber on deck for big time CT prospects in 2015, look out for another freshman making a splash at Cass Tech this season.
Delano's younger brother Lavert Hill. 5-11/165 CB for the Class of 2016. This will be his first season at Cass Tech. I believe he played ball for the famous Detroit Westside Cubs football club last season. That seems to be the pipeline to the pipeline.
2016 Cass Tech DB Lavert Hill has two interceptions in one on one drills so far. He looks good. #SMSB
but then checked rivals and in the rivals era, they've had four guys come to Michigan (3 4*), three go to Pitt (1 4*) and one each to MSU and OSU, so I'd still say no for now but it looks like we might be establishing something good. Definitely expected OSU to have a stronger presence there
I lived in that area (Dayton) for 7 years. Very pro-Ohio State area. I'm surprised too. Hoke is from that area, but the "pipeline" started with RR.
I think Detroit Catholic Central could be considered a pipeline or a developing one at that. Wyatt Shallman, Matt Godin, walk on QB Garret Moores, and of course Mike Martin are from CC
is the relationship between the two coaching staffs. The high school coach has to have a strong feeling of trust with the college staff that they it's a great place to send his players. Thinking back to the old days, I'd be hard pressed to come up with a stronger pipeline than today's Cass Tech one. Bo and Mo used to recruit from pretty much everywhere. We had a string of good players from Brother Rice back in the day, but I wouldn't really consider that a strong pipeline at the time.
Lets keep the recruiting fire burning here!!!!! Like to see one of the corners!
Every so often you run into rebels who need to affirm their existence by cutting against the grain. But Webb is making a big mistake here. Simply put - MICHIGAN IS A FAR BETTER SCHOOL THAN OHIO. Ann Arbor also is a far more beautiful environment than urban, polluted Columbus. And the way Hoke is recruiting, any notion that going to Ohio is the better option toward reaching championships will be erased in the very imminent future. Webb must be that confident that he's going to make the Benjamins on Sundays to throw away the extra leverage that a Michgan degree would offer him in the event he must pursue another vocation.
Hope you stay healthy Damon!