Lack of toughness and intensity

I agree that we lacked some toughness and intensity, but what you're talking about is apples and oranges. Read the comments by the defensive coordinator in the Sports Illustrated article. He's not saying play tough football. He's saying do damage to the opponent, whatever it takes. Do you think Mattison is saying that? If he's not, is he a pussy for not saying it? You're sort of insinuating that football should become like Ultimate Fighting, a cage match between the two teams. It's a fine line that can easily be crossed in a sport as physical as football if we espouse the kind of things you're talking about.  

ball is a tough game, yadda yadda; I beg to differ. We played intense and tough.

We're not as big and strong as them yet, but that's a different issue. (I know that's a subtle distinction, but it's true.) Listen to the players, if you're going to quote Hoke and Denard (which. . . smart to stay gallant, smart to wait and see tape, but they have different jobs than we do); they said they thought they could win it right to the end. 

Thing is, however, that if the other team comes out and tries to break your neck, plays dirty play after play, has a F*CKING D-bag D coach who says he APPROVES that's pure crap; why we need Michigan fans to tell us we should man up over that is, to my mind, a real question. That's breaking the rules (reason we play sports instead of just clubbing each other). If you're cool with that--sorry--we are not on the same page.

I have kids, and I want them to grow up, do right, and play fair. And yesterday was an object lesson. Again--maybe I'm old school--but I am much less upset about losing when my opponent has lowered himself like that.

Some people just respect power, period; psychologists have a name for that. I'm not going to confuse their football team with the many decent people at MSU, but I have zero respect for Dantonio and Narduzzi today; nothing they do from here will re-establish it.

Redacted: my title line was inflammatory; apologies to anyone I may have insulted. Altered so as not to do the same thing I'm accusing MSU of. 

“No. We were playing football. It’s a dirty game.”  - Denard Robinson

The UM back seven need to toughen up.    Wrap up and make a hit and drive the runner into the ground.  Tackle 101 = fail for UM.   Wrap the guy up and drive him into the ground.  Stop dropping your head and trying to push the runner down.  

And Troy Wolfoolk needs to shut his mouth and play football.  All this guy does is talk shit and then get burned on an end around.  Time for him to ride the pine.

Just could not stop them.....

Unnecessary hits happen in a game like this, paticularly with your rivals. Scrums are bound to happen too, like they did with Boston and Woodson.

What State did was pure intent to injure. Its one thing to even throw a cheap punch, its another entirely to throw a cheap punch at a players neck. Its one thing to pile on late, its another thing entirely to try and break a defenssless players neck. Its one thing to give a check from behind, its another thing entirely to slash an unconscious player in the neck with a hockey stick.

There's no sugar coating this, Michigan State harbors a disproportionate number of criminal players on their teams, and their coaches not only fail to address that problem, they encourage it. That has been evident from the no-punishment and the slaps on the wrist they recieve for their wrong-doing. A quarter of your team causes trouble at a fraternity? One game suspension. Attacking Kampfer in the neck with a stick? Suspended for small remainder of an already long-lost season (and then reinstated and made an assistant captain). Yesterday's antics? I'm betting the punshment will be nothing if left to Dantonio.

Their conduct did not have changed the outcome yesterday. The flags they DID get we failed do anything with, and while you can argue that the ejections that should have occured would have changed something, our offense shouldn't need that to take advantage of what we were given. I'm pissed because we lost to thugs like them and because they accept behavior that can result in serious, debilitating harm to our players. I am proud of our guys for not retaliating with equally dangerous conduct, but I am not proud of the fact they couldn't play up to beat thugs when given golden oppurtunities to cash in.

Hoke is preaching toughness, being disruptive, hearing the defense.  Well, first real B10 match up and they were out matched.  Learn from it, adjust, move forward, see if you improve with your next opponent, Repeat

GO BLUE!

Don't trip over the cliches as you step down from your soapbox.

Okay, that's find of dickish on my part.  But I am sick and tired of people saying this team isn't "tough" enough.  Denard takes a beating that nobody has seen on this team in years.  The defense, while not great, plays hard and hits guys.  People complaining about "toughness" are complaining about results; they don't like to see UM lose, and instead of admitting that the team just lost to a better squad by a thin margin, they try to "blame" the game on somebody.  This team is going to win and lose because of how they play on the field, and trying to equate the myriad of factors involved in that performance on "grit" and "toughness" compared to some myth about past teams is just useless. 

EAST LANSING, Mich. -- Not long after his interception for a touchdown against Michigan sealed a 28-14 win, Michigan State safety Isaiah Lewis fired the first shot toward Madison.

"Wisconsin should know we're coming," Lewis said. "They have a good offense, and that quarterback [Russell Wilson]. But they should just know our defense is coming. And just like any other team, if they're throwing the ball up, our DBs are going to go get it, our linebackers are going to go get it and our lineman are getting after the quarterback. And they're going to hurt him." 

 Interesting last line.  Lots of room for different intrepretations.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/35875/35875

your first sentence is stupid and wrong.  i haven't read one thread or comment saying um lost because state played dirty.  state won AND they played dirty.

The OP is an idiot.

Darius Morris verbal jab = Ghoulstons premeditated attempt to snap Denards neck. You are clueless sir!

From the OP:

"Remember Marcus Ray putting Boston on his back ..."

Just the other day, on this very site, I wrote about how Marcus Ray's entire reputation seems to be based on that one hit. You'd think we were talking about Rod Woodson.

with this post for the most part. Football is not a nice game.

to keep in mind that you could see MSU coaches and other players congratulating each other after dirty hits.  I agree, that at the end of the day if you lose you lose, but celebrating obviously illegal plays and late hits is pretty awful.  Next year, I don't want to give in and play to their level...I want them to come into the Big House and get stomped 70-0.  You better believe there won't be any mercy rule.

I would just like to point out that Darius would have been well within his rights to tell Lucious to get off the court as he was no longer a member of the MSU basketball team. 

Plain and simple....you cheap shot denard call a cut block on their best dline or lber, you send a message and you send a hard message....They do it again you line a double outside lber blitz and you tell them to crush the qb and if you are within 2 steps you hit him and bury him hi and low!  It aint cheap when the other team is calling it. It's calling by the rules they want to play with! 

Believe me they want to go after a qb, you go get theirs! 

Majority of people are not saying we lost because Sparty played dirty. It's just that it's disgusting that Sparty played dirty, and at least one player (Gholston) should have been tossed from the game, if not thrown out of college football for good, a la LeGarrette Blount (remember him?).

"Football is a dirty game" is true of the fact that when played properly and lawfully, yes, large athletic young men crash into each other at very unsafe speeds, trying their hardest to force each other to the ground.

Twisting someone's helmet to try and injur their neck or punching someone in the head is not "play that's dirty," it's just thuggery. It's not play at all, that's why it's against the rules. You risk serious injury to other players who are helpless or undefended, that's why it's against the rules.

I accept that MSU was the superior team on the field, but I and the majority of the fanbase are outraged that MSU takes no accountability for players engaging in disgusting, dangerous, unsportsmanlike behavior.

Also, you're a tool. You've never suited up for a day of college football in your life and you're pooh-pooing the risks of twisting a helpless guy's helmet or punching a guy in the head. Go join an MSU board and slap other neanderthals on the back about how trying to injure other players is part of the game, and YOU WON!

/disgust

And I think Hoke knows that this loss was good for his team, because it will further drive home his preaching of toughness and tenacity. They need more of it. In the end, that was the difference in the game. Sucks admitting it, but it's true.