Josh Pate on the Harbaugh situation
This morning Josh Pate (24/7 sports) gave a funny and insightful description of cheeseburger-gate, what's happening with the case now, and the most likely outcome. He even threw in a pretty good analogy from The Office which is just about perfect for this whole thing. I will be redirecting all of the mouth breathing KU fans in my life asking me "what's Harbaugh done NOW??!" to this video.
August 14th, 2023 at 12:35 PM ^
What's beyond ironic and somewhat hilarious is that virtually EVERYONE in college football sees this farce for what it is. The NCAA look like absolute loons and my guess is this will only intensify with time.
They somehow managed to make Jim a sympathetic figure. Probably the last thing these SEC loving shills wanted to do but they did it.
August 14th, 2023 at 1:01 PM ^
The more I delve into all of this the more I come away believing that the ncaa will just quietly drop this in the off season.
August 14th, 2023 at 6:53 PM ^
Really? When was the last time a self imposed suspension was rejected because the NCAA thought it was too harsh? Harbaugh has made a complete joke of this situation and for good reason. Harbaugh has basically shown everyone that the NCAA is an impotent shell of its former self and that no one has any respect for it. This seems more like the ncaa trying to show that it’s still relevant after the lack of respect JH has shown. This whole situation is ridiculous but I fear that this is not over. I hope Harbaugh continues to mock them in not so subtle ways.
August 14th, 2023 at 1:44 PM ^
You must not know the MSU fans I know that think this is so serious that Harbaugh should be fired (because Harbaugh scares them).
August 14th, 2023 at 2:18 PM ^
Don't forget the multi-year "Show Cause"...because BLUE WALL!
Sparties are the most pathetic fan base on earth.
Go Blue!
August 14th, 2023 at 2:25 PM ^
Honestly I dont. But living here in Ohio and having a son about to enter OSU as a freshman in four days I know a BUNCH of Buckeye fans and they all think this is beyond nuts.
#mgradOSUdad
August 14th, 2023 at 2:29 PM ^
what emotions do you have as a loyal Michigan fan with one of your son enter OSU?
August 14th, 2023 at 2:39 PM ^
Candidly I'm thrilled. Out of state tuition at M runs 54K plus room plus food plus books meaning all in for his degree (computer science/engineering) would run me around 350K or more. In state tuition at OSU will cost me about 95K.
Michigan's CS/Engineering program is ranked 6th in the country and the average starting salary for first year job hire's is a little over 100K. It's an excellent program. But OSU's CS/Engineering program is pretty good too and is ranked 18th in the country with their first year starting salary at around 90K.
So yes, there's a difference between the two programs but there's not THAT big of a difference and once you get hired anywhere nobody gives two shits about the name on your diploma. The business world is a pure meritocracy and how well you perform is all that matters.
Oh, two last things. One - thank you for asking and two, I'm an alum, not a fan, LS&A poli-sci/economics class of 1981.
August 14th, 2023 at 2:54 PM ^
You and your son will be having some fun this football season. Enjoy it. I'm sure your son has some Maize and Blue in him.
August 14th, 2023 at 2:55 PM ^
Oh, two last things. One - thank you for asking and two, I'm an alum, not a fan, LS&A poli-sci/economics class of 1981.
I assume you're both an alum and a fan. Don't think it was intended to be a dig, or to imply that you didn't go to M, just that as an M fan it might be tough to have a kid go to OSU. I live over the boarder in Ohio and I'll be devastated if my son wants to go there, in state tuition or not.
Plus it's possible to be an alum but not a fan. Know someone who's an M fan (and went to M for undergrad) and hates Sparty, but went to MSU for grad school as it was the best grad school he got into. MSU alum, but not an MSU fan...
August 14th, 2023 at 3:12 PM ^
Good points and my response came off harsher than intended so I apologize. FWIW it's my "go-to" response when I get confronted down here by the knuckle-dragging OSU fan contingent (never an alum) when I'm out and about wearing my M gear and they start giving me shit.
Me: "I'm not a Michigan fan, I'm 10x worse than that. I'm an alum - I WENT THERE and have a degree. What years did you go to Ohio State?"
Them (always): "I didnt actually go to OSU"
Me: "Figures. I never have an issue with anyone who actually went to school there."
August 14th, 2023 at 4:04 PM ^
I took no offense - they go hand in hand to me and I assumed you were both an alum and fan.
I totally get the economics and comparative rankings, I just couldn't write the check to Mordor University, so you are a better man than I though I have many friends who are OSU fans/alums and they are for the most part very decent people.
I wish your son nothing but great success in school and great tears of infinite sadness come 11/25/23
August 14th, 2023 at 4:00 PM ^
It is cool not to be a fan of sports, but if you go to a school you should have some affinity for the sports teams, the solar car team, the accappella group, the famous alum, etc. Drink in the culture and the experience.
I'm not a baseball fan, but I've thoroughly enjoyed many Tigers and Cubs games and a few Michigan baseball games in their championship run.
I got my MBA at a MAC (former MAC) school for free and didn't really follow their sports, but have gone to a couple of games over the past few years and it is fun. I don't really care if they win or lose, but it is fun to show a little spirit.
August 15th, 2023 at 6:23 PM ^
I think- no, I KNOW, Sparty specializes in non-fan alums.
August 14th, 2023 at 3:09 PM ^
He can still transfer after his sophomore season and get that UM degree and your cost would be halfway between the 2 numbers your posted!
OH WAIT IT'S UM ADMISSIONS HE WOULD BE HALFWAY THROUGH HIS FRESHMAN YEAR ONLY IF HE TRANSFERRED.
August 14th, 2023 at 4:00 PM ^
But that stench of being a buckeye will be with him forever. No amount of money (or soap) will be able to wash that away.
August 14th, 2023 at 4:17 PM ^
There's a pretty famous OSU CS grad in the tech world: Ben Gilbert of the Acquired podcast. Any time OSU (or Michigan) comes up on an episode, one of them mentions Ben's alma mater.
August 14th, 2023 at 4:40 PM ^
Your son will become a billionaire if he can create a self cleaning poop cooler while at Osu.
August 14th, 2023 at 5:42 PM ^
Zoinks.
With what the stock market has done to my kid's 529 lately, I feel you. I'd love for him to go to the Colorado School of Mines, an outstanding in-state public school. His name starts with M, so he's had monogrammed gear his whole life, and has always identified with the M on Lookout Mountain, but he wants to get away from us for school. I'm happy he'd consider going to Michigan.
August 14th, 2023 at 7:11 PM ^
You and your son are making a good decision. OSU is a solid school and after your son has a few years of work experience under his belt, future employers will care far more about where he has worked than what college he attended.
August 14th, 2023 at 7:13 PM ^
People don't always realize just how good of an academic institution Ohio State actually is. And if your son is in Engineering, good on him. And as an Econ Major, you did the work...
BTW '81 BBA grad. Two kids who graduated Michigan from out of state. I remind them regularly of the sacrifice!
August 14th, 2023 at 9:00 PM ^
Same boat here - two sons who went to undergrad and grad school - EE and Comp E.
They received an excellent education at Michigan but it was likely no better or worse than any other good university with a top notch engineering school. It also cost a small fortune. Once you get to college it is often on you what you get out of your four (or more) years.
The NCAA can go screw themselves. I hope Harbaugh litigates.
August 14th, 2023 at 8:11 PM ^
I don't get why people feel the need to say "I'm not a fan I'm an alum"
Okay but It comes off as extremely arrogant.
And congrats to your son.
August 15th, 2023 at 6:26 PM ^
The high asf tuition, and hundreds of pages of reading a night gauntlet we traversed affords us this luxury.
August 14th, 2023 at 8:56 PM ^
My brother went to OSU. He was accepted at Michigan but they gave him a lot more money. He’s now a professor so it worked out for him without the 50k student debt that I had from Michigan. This was in the 90s. I make considerably more than he does as a business owner but he’s an amazing person and inspires me routinely. We are best friends 364 days a year.
August 15th, 2023 at 1:50 AM ^
1. #UMparentfail
2. “The business world is a pure meritocracy and how well you perform is all that matters.” BAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!
3. Given #1 and #2, we’re going to have see some receipts on that UM degree.
4. Profit
August 15th, 2023 at 6:06 AM ^
Like mGrowOld's situation, economics played a big role in my child's choice of universities. We live in Oklahoma, so both MSU and Michigan would have been out-of-state tuition. The difference was, MSU offered a full-ride scholarship based on my daughter being a National Merit Scholar, plus other MSU funding.
National Merit by itself gives some money, but not very much. The best academic institutions don't need to sweeten the pot but lesser schools do, to attract the highest academic achievers.
In addition to mGrowOld's point about alma mater losing importance once the career is started, there is also the option of a graduate degree to a better academic school. My two other kids stayed in state and have undergraduate degrees from OSU (ntOSU), which is considerably down the scale of academic reputation from, not just UM but MSU as well. Two of my kids have masters degrees and the Sparty daughter has a PhD. All of their graduate degrees are from schools with better academic reputations than their undergraduate degrees.
August 15th, 2023 at 8:50 PM ^
I'm an OSU grad. Best part is I can hang my diploma from my rear view mirror and park in the handicap spots. Fisher School of Business grad, currently a software developer for a very large company and very happy with my life. Your son will enjoy his time and I had no trouble retaining my allegiance.
BTW, my dad played under Bo and was happy to send me to OSU for the same reasons you listed. He may have plugged his nose writing the checks, but that's beside the point.
August 16th, 2023 at 2:21 PM ^
The business world is absolutely not a meritocracy but your son will be fine and osu, like basically every major school will provide a fantastic education
August 14th, 2023 at 3:28 PM ^
As an mgradOSUgranddad, I can sympathize with you, mGrowOld. But since my Michigan degree is at a graduate level (M.A), perhaps my sports fandom is less intense than that of students who spent longer in undergrad programs.
Or were raised in Michigan?
August 14th, 2023 at 3:33 PM ^
Relocating to a town just inside (outside, depending on perspective) is better - commute to work in OH and get in-state tuition for the kids. Many do it.
August 14th, 2023 at 8:27 PM ^
...and the rest are crying about tattoos.
August 14th, 2023 at 3:03 PM ^
I find it particularly hilarious that the best defense of the NCAA I've read is "this isn't about the cheesburgers. It's about LYING about the cheeseburgers.".
As if that magically makes it worse somehow lol.
August 14th, 2023 at 2:04 PM ^
Yeah, the fact Jim Harbaugh has somehow united a bunch of people and come across as the hero shows just how out-of-touch the NCAA is.
August 14th, 2023 at 2:56 PM ^
OSU: half "ban Harbaugh like they banned Tressel" half "who cares fuck the NCAA"
MSU: 100% unhinged
PSU: 100% conspiratorial and officious
Everyone else: lol burger
August 14th, 2023 at 4:42 PM ^
it's literally a nothing burger but if you try to tell anyone else that they'll flip out
August 14th, 2023 at 6:24 PM ^
Correction: it's a nothing burger with cheese.
August 14th, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^
Pate is really good. I enjoy his videos.
August 14th, 2023 at 12:39 PM ^
I don't care much for his brother Liver Pate.
August 14th, 2023 at 12:39 PM ^
Pate is such a hack. No analysis, all pandering, says anything just for engagement.
August 14th, 2023 at 1:53 PM ^
Go on… what else?
August 14th, 2023 at 3:29 PM ^
Pate is such a hack. No analysis, all pandering, says anything just for engagement.
Which is what you just did above.
August 14th, 2023 at 6:13 PM ^
He’s a purported journalist and I posted on a message board. Why would you conflate us?
sure we agree on this point, I’m just saying as someone who sees his Twitter takes, etc is that he’s the New York post of Michigan football info.
August 14th, 2023 at 8:40 PM ^
He didn't conflate you. He said you did something that you accused Pate of doing. If I laugh because a celebrity trips over a curb, and then I trip over a curb, my children might point out the irony of the situation. But I wouldn't say they were conflating me with the celebrity.
August 15th, 2023 at 10:30 AM ^
My opinion on him is that I won't miss anything interesting or groundbreaking if I don't listen to him, whereas Solid Verbal, Athletic Football podcast, the Ringer, are all so much better and more informative than him. Rece Davis and Joel Klatt I think are miles better and actually add value to the CFB discussion, whereas Pate feels like a guy who is basically doing reaction videos
August 15th, 2023 at 6:26 AM ^
Iv'e found Josh Pate to be informative and I watch his show on YouTube regularly. I did not know that Jim hired Tom Mars. Good choice, he is the best in that legal specialty that I know of. His knowledge of the NCAA and their processes would be considerably helpful.
August 14th, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^
I certainly hope that this does not push him out the door after the season. I'm surprised how many fans seem sanguine about that possibility. He is one of the best coaches in football, on any level, and would be very difficult to replace.
The fact that he has an attack-dog lawyer (Mars) to deal with the NCAA reassures me a bit.
August 14th, 2023 at 12:54 PM ^
As long as he keeps open the pipeline between Michigan and NFL coordinators, I'm good with it.
August 14th, 2023 at 1:03 PM ^
Coaches change. The important thing is that whoever replaces Harbaugh maintains the culture that has been established.
If it’s a young coach like Moore I hope he hires an older mentor coach as Juwan did. Coaching at Michigan is a big, complicated deal.
I hope Harbaugh stays, but I really hope Michigan has a succession plan. I don’t want this to end up like Succession. Everyone needs to be on board.
August 14th, 2023 at 1:10 PM ^
Any succession plan will involve promoting a current assistant. I don't doubt that we have some bright minds on the staff. But it still would mean going from a Hall of Fame-bound coach, who has led teams to both the Super Bowl and the College Football Playoff, to someone with no head coaching experience. I hope we can delay that transition as long as possible.