James Franklin to FSU?
Seems to be some smoke building here. FSU might not be the blue blood that PSU is, but the ACC is way less competitive and Florida is a better recruiting region, and that’s Franklin’s forte.
I’m sure Rhule would be Penn State’s top candidate, as a former Nittany Lion, but he had NFL offers last cycle, and there will be more coming this year for sure. Would be interesting if Franklin bolts for FSU after Rhule has taken an NFL job. Not sure who the target would become then. Maybe Matt Campbell.
November 21st, 2019 at 10:05 AM ^
Oh, I’m sure they’d fall ass backwards into a better coach. That seems to be the way things go in life, as there is no justice.
November 21st, 2019 at 12:16 PM ^
If Franklin leaves and Rhule replaces him, we should be very very worried. I think Rhule is legit.
November 21st, 2019 at 1:55 PM ^
Agree, Rhule is probably the best available after that one guy and almost certainly an improvement over Franklin (who has admittedly been very good). Would not want to see Franklin leave only for them to hire Rhule.
November 21st, 2019 at 2:25 PM ^
After watching Baylor squander a 28-3 lead to Okahoma at home in Saturday night primetime game, I'm not convinced he is as good as people think he is.
For starters, Rhule took over a good program that was 2 years removed from winning 10 games and and 3 years removed from almost playing in the College Football Playoff.
Year 1: 1-11
Year 2: 7-6
Year 3: 9-1 (And the record hides how many close games they've had this season.)
Finally, I don't get the disrespect of James Franklin's coaching abilities. His Penn State has played Urban Meyer's Ohio State teams closely with and without Joe Moorhead.
November 21st, 2019 at 2:42 PM ^
They were 1-11 because they had zero talent left, and a program in flames. That works against your thesis a bit.
November 21st, 2019 at 4:08 PM ^
Baylor's roster was decimated (for good reason) when Rhule came in. There was also essentially a gap year when Jim Grobe was the interim coach. And it's not like Baylor exactly has a history of drawing top talent, despite being in the center of Texas. Rhule's done a fantastic job at Baylor, not to mention what he did at Temple.
November 21st, 2019 at 3:45 PM ^
personally i think franklin is legit despite this site's general mockery of him.
November 21st, 2019 at 4:17 PM ^
Ruhle is legit for sure. FSU should have him at the top of their list.
November 21st, 2019 at 12:37 PM ^
This is a setup, right? So they (PSU) emotionally tank against Ohio State? Great timing. Purposeful.
November 21st, 2019 at 7:17 PM ^
This was my first thought. Now the remainder of the week is spent with the HC assuring all the players that he’s not leaving.
Ive seen this movie before.
November 21st, 2019 at 10:05 AM ^
Franklin would be much smarter than I give him credit for, if he chooses to get out now. That dude took all of Mork's luck, and at some point it's going to run out and he's going to get exposed for the terrible coach he is.
November 21st, 2019 at 10:11 AM ^
I would take the better compensation package. If PSU ponies up I would happily take the raise. If FSU offers something equal or better, it would be a no brainer to leave.
November 21st, 2019 at 11:20 AM ^
Yep. And IMO this move is not dumb.
November 21st, 2019 at 10:11 AM ^
Yeah, I think FSU would be very smart for Franklin. He could basically guarantee himself 10 wins as a floor every year with the ACC and the recruits he would get there. Plus, you get Clemson at home every other year and who knows. He’d be smart to take this.
November 21st, 2019 at 10:18 AM ^
Agree here. Potential for long term conference success at Florida St is higher than at Penn St. Recruiting is easier, overall easier in-conference schedule. And Clemson just feels to me to be at the apex of its rise and nearing it's regression to the mean. Next coach at FSU has a window of 2 years or so to probably build its talent base to take advantage of a coming Clemson fall. Only Saban is eternal in college football.
November 21st, 2019 at 1:13 PM ^
Clemson fall? Have you seen the recruiting numbers for this coming class?
November 21st, 2019 at 3:21 PM ^
Pete Carroll's recruiting classes topped out up until he left, so did Mack Brown, and Urban at Florida, and Miami up until Coker left. There are small cracks showing and no program has maintained such a peak for so long (Saban's Alabama probably the best exception in contemporary football). Clemson's at a peak and they may have another run or two left in this program, but eventually your good assistants get plucked, you misfire on a recruiting class, your coach loses focus / interest / his faith / the ability to remember what his wife looks like / the ability to turn down NFL dollars. I'm just saying eventually Clemson's going to fall back to historic norms. And my guess is the first real fissure will happen within a couple years, so FSU / Miami could be poised to reap a benefit from that.
November 21st, 2019 at 2:23 PM ^
You are saying a football coach, who's primary job requirement is to motivate college kids to face the tough challenges, overcome obstacles, and don't give up is going to take a similar job at a different school because it will be easier?
Please tell me someone else see's the silliness in this. Not because it is not true, but because it is most likely true.
November 21st, 2019 at 11:35 PM ^
Totally agree with this. There is so much talent in Florida and FSU has been getting the top recruits ever since Miami went AWOL many years ago. The ACC is garbage outside of Clemson right now. It's a complete mystery why FSU sucks so bad. That program is at the ready to take a big leap.
November 21st, 2019 at 10:31 AM ^
Does this mean Theo Johnson is a lock?
November 21st, 2019 at 10:34 AM ^
Willie Taggart:
November 21st, 2019 at 11:37 AM ^
I tend to agree with this. Last several years, you've had Clemson out of the ACC and... once in a while VT or FSU or Miami, but not with any consistency.
Looking just at 2019 and comparing Massey ratings side-by-side with Big Ten:
- 1 ohio state --- 3 Clemson
- 5 penn state --- 33 Virginia
- 10 Michigan --- 36 Miami
- 12 Wisconsin --- 37 Pittsburgh
- 14 Minnesota --- 38 Wake Forest
- 18 Iowa --- 39 Virginia Tech
- 34 Indiana --- 41 Louisville
- 48 michigan state --- 47 Florida State
- 51 Illinois --- 57 North Carolina
- 75 Nebraska --- 68 Boston College
- 76 Purdue --- 83 Duke
- 93 Maryland --- 86 Syracuse
- 105 Northwestern --- 97 NC State
- 117 Rutgers --- 110 Georgia Tech
They have nobody at the top except Clemson, a whole slew of average to mediocre teams, and their crappy teams are slightly less crappy than our crappy teams.
November 21st, 2019 at 11:55 AM ^
Fantastic post.
November 21st, 2019 at 12:03 PM ^
Wow. If you're playing this year's Indiana and MSU for your whole conference schedule, that's pretty nice. Indiana/VT is good enough to be a respectable win, but not quite good enough that a stacked team should lose the vast majority of the time. No doubt Clemson is super good, but when your whole year is mildly competitive, your players enter the post-season healthy and rested.
November 21st, 2019 at 12:26 PM ^
Your just realizing Clemson’s schedule is that easy? The ACC blows
November 21st, 2019 at 1:11 PM ^
CLEMSON = If an entire conference put all of their best players on the field in one team...
The rest of the ACC is playing highschool ball. This is why FSU joined years ago after being independent for such a long time; they reaped the rewards for awhile then they caught an STD...
Sports Transmitted Disease... from the rest of their conference.
November 21st, 2019 at 9:05 PM ^
Uhhh, I’m up for a Big Ten ACC football challenge..
November 21st, 2019 at 10:16 AM ^
I think FSU would be a better spot for almost every B1G coach/team minus OSU. Franklin may or may not be the greatest game day coach, but he is a good recruiter and seems to hire good assistants. He's got a B1G championship, has been more competitive with OSU than UM, and has more overall team talent than UM. I'm not sure he's just getting lucky. He has good players and good coaches.
November 21st, 2019 at 11:10 AM ^
There is not more talent at PSU than UM.
November 21st, 2019 at 11:19 AM ^
Actually, Penn State is directly above us in the talent composite; we are 10th and 11th. Their talent score is 857.34 to our 853.4, so, pretty even, but they might have a pinch more.
November 21st, 2019 at 12:34 PM ^
Here is the screenshot of 247's 2019 Team Talent Composite.
November 21st, 2019 at 1:03 PM ^
So nearly identical talent as rated by recruiting services, where differences in the number of specialists and fullbacks on scholarship would easily make up the difference between the two.
I bet a nickel that there are more Ronnie Bell and Hassan Haskin type guys on Michigan than on PSU's roster too.
November 21st, 2019 at 2:17 PM ^
So nearly identical talent as rated by recruiting services
You could say UM had a "damn near identical score" to PSU in this year's game. That is true, but they still lost. More is more even if it's close.
where differences in the number of specialists and fullbacks on scholarship would easily make up the difference between the two.
I'd bet it has more to do with UM's attrition because 4 of the last 5 classes were better at UM. Then gain, PSU has had a decent amount of attrition too so idk.
November 21st, 2019 at 3:31 PM ^
You underestimate how big it is that they land a large amount of the Pennsylvania region recruits. A ton of top talent comes out of that state.
November 21st, 2019 at 10:20 AM ^
Eh, Franklin may be the worst game day coach in the country but he's a good recruiter and he keeps finding competent assistants. When former DC Bob Shoop left we all heard that he was doomed. When former OC Joe Moorhead left we all heard he was doomed. Has that happened yet? Even with the loss to Minnesota he's still in position to win a B1G title on Saturday (where he will likely fuck it up in some embarrassing way because he is the worst game day coach in the country).
I personally think it would be great if Franklin went to FSU. There's a non-zero chance Penn State fucks up his replacement, and Franklin should be able to recruit well enough at FSU to get in position to blow more big games with more horrible game-time decisions.
November 21st, 2019 at 10:50 AM ^
I think he's hired some decent coordinators but I'd push back a bit on it not affecting his team's performance overall. They've had a bit of a smoke-and-mirrors season thus far and it'll be interesting to see how they do against OSU this weekend. But last year they were definitely down, and even the season before that they somewhat underperformed expectations/talent level. He had some great success for a spurt but their offense isn't nearly as dynamic as it has been in seasons past and the defense, while filled with solid players, certainly feels a level below OSU and probably UM.
I think he should go to FSU because it's an easier place to win at and the competition in conference is way less. The Big Ten East is always going to be a bloodbath, and unless you're recruiting at an elite level constantly you can get caught pretty easily. Like, right now he's got the #13 recruiting class in the country...and #3 in his division. Last year he was a shade better, but it's a grind and it's not going to let up. Moving on will likely give him a higher floor and more room for error.
November 21st, 2019 at 11:02 AM ^
I agree about the smoke-and-mirrors. I think they were lucky to beat us, and they were about even with Minnesota - who I think will lose to Wisconsin even at home.
That said, I do think PSU is a top-20 program, and Franklin is a good coach all things considered - just not the actual Xs and Os adjustments during a game.
And if the salaries are the same, it would be a no-brainer for Franklin to go to FSU. He could kill it in recruiting (he's already done so in the ~south at Vandy), and he would coast to 10 wins and the ACC finals every year.
November 21st, 2019 at 11:20 AM ^
Sure, Franklin does under-perform his talent. I felt they could have been in the playoffs in 2017 if he hadn't blown games against (sigh) OSU and MSU.
He's able to get enough talent, though, that under-performing is generally going to be enough to keep him in his job. They'll do well in years when he has a lot of talent on hand or when he can put together a decent staff.
I'd hate to be a Penn State fan, though.
November 21st, 2019 at 10:58 AM ^
Agree. He's an excellent recruiter and outstanding motivator. He also picks great QBs: McSorley was a generic 3* he had committed at Vanderbilt, and brought to PSU (maybe he had no choice, needed a guy, and just got lucky); Clifford was a very good pick-up, and he let his presumed starter Tommy Stevens walk away and go to Miss St rather than guarantee him the job. This was both 1) honest, and 2) the correct decision to let Stevens go.
I think he's a bit of a phony, but he's a good coach.
Rhule probably takes the PSU job though, and he's excellent.
November 21st, 2019 at 11:05 AM ^
Some good analysis here. Some ugly stuff went down at Vanderbilt when he was there, and I never liked him. But one has to grudgingly accept that he hasn't just fallen on his face. PSU was a viper's nest when he arrived and has recovered quickly, unfortunately! I just don't want him in Tallahassee, where I live!
November 21st, 2019 at 11:07 AM ^
Some good analysis here. Some ugly stuff went down at Vanderbilt when he was there, and I never liked him. But one has to grudgingly accept that he hasn't just fallen on his face. PSU was a viper's nest when he arrived and has recovered quickly, unfortunately! I just don't want him in Tallahassee, where I live! But a quick glance around the internets hardly suggests such a move is imminent.
November 21st, 2019 at 1:06 PM ^
As big of a dumb-ass that Franklin is on game day, even he won't be able to mess up the 38-7 beat down that he's looking at on Saturday. Only way he couldn't mess up the game is if OSU thinks the game is in Happy Valley and arrives there.
November 21st, 2019 at 10:26 AM ^
While I agree he's a bad coach, he's a terrific recruiter and it takes a lot to be a bad team (cough USC cough) when you have so much talent. Mork never really had the talent Franklin has
November 21st, 2019 at 10:32 AM ^
I think that this would be a huge mistake for Franklin. FSU's roster is a mess. Jimbo Fisher left the place without OL or QB. The culture went to crap. They bring in Taggert and don't even give him two years to dig out of the pile that Fisher left for them.
Yes the ACC is cottony soft, but getting FSU back to anything approaching its former self is a big task and does the school give the coach the time to get it done.
And FSU has nowhere near the resources that PSU has. This strikes me as an agent getting his guy paid ploy.
Now USC would be a different discussion. And the chatter I've been hearing from OSU folks is that Meyer is going to Dallas, not USC.
November 21st, 2019 at 10:48 AM ^
Yeah, I don't agree with everyone in here saying that Franklin would be better off at FSU. The fact of the matter is, if PSU wins this weekend, they're probably going to jump up to third or fourth (even if they're fifth, they'll essentially be in the top four, because the SEC championship loser will fall behind them) and will probably make the playoffs.
If he goes to FSU, he's in the same division as Clemson, and has to play them every year. That's at least as tough of an ask as playing OSU every year. And he has to start from scratch to build FSU up to the level where they can compete with Clemson, whereas he already has PSU at that level. Michigan and the rest of the B1G is tougher than the rest of the ACC, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, as it gives more options to get better wins.
As far as prestige of the program, I'd consider PSU and FSU to be about equal.
Unless FSU comes in with a monster offer that PSU won't match (which is hard to imagine, considering how much they love him at PSU), or he's feeling restless and wants a change of scenery, I don't think it makes any sense for him to jump ship.
November 21st, 2019 at 11:40 AM ^
Clemson and OSU cancel each other out, but the rest of the ACC is MUCH easier than the B1G. It's not even close. And Florida State sits on one of the three biggest recruiting hotbeds in the country.
Franklin would bring in top five classes at FSU every year. He would have, as top ACC teams always do, half a season's worth of conference games that are walkover wins, a couple of tougher games that he'll be favored in, and one or two big games a year that are tossups. Give him a couple of years to build his talent level and he'll be right at Clemson's heels, and as others in this thread have said a win or two will have to come.
Franklin can make the playoff at Florida State. It's a much tougher road at Penn State (yes, they could make the playoff this year if they beat OSU... but they're not going to).
The ceiling is simply higher at FSU. The roster is currently bad, but PSU's roster wasn't great either (even similar weaknesses--FSU's OL has been a multi-year disaster, but PSU has had a weak OL for his entire time there and he still managed to get the pieces in place to produce a dominant offense in 16 and 17).
He might not go, but FSU would be a good destination for him.
November 21st, 2019 at 11:57 AM ^
If Franklin beats OSU, he's not going anywhere.
FSU isn't making a serious run at Franklin unless they offer him a substantial raise. If he loses, I don't think PSU is going to match a big offer. His overall record there is not that great and Matt Rhule would be at least an adequate replacement.
If they think Franklin's been flirting with another job during a season where they are making a playoff run, I think they love him less.
November 21st, 2019 at 12:05 PM ^
Again, I might be missing something but I don't see anything on the net that suggests a Franklin move to FSU has even reached the serious talking stage. And there's a real question of whether FSU can pay a Franklin enough, let alone offer the kind of job security that he'd want to demand with the job. Because while I agree that FSU can be quite good almost as a matter of routine, the place is in a shambles, and it's going to take two-three years.
November 21st, 2019 at 12:23 PM ^
I agree with you, but we don't know what's going on behind the scenes.
My assumption when the FSU job opened was that it was mostly an opportunity for Fleck and Franklin to parlay strong starts and media speculation into raises. Fleck got his and I'd bet on Franklin getting one too.
I could see Franklin being a legitimate target for FSU and possibly USC though and I'd understand Franklin listening to them. It's tough to do much better than he's doing this year at PSU. The ceiling at FSU and USC is high, the competition less and he'd get the credit for bringing them back.
The money issue at FSU seems to hinge on how much dough the boosters will pony up.
November 21st, 2019 at 1:35 PM ^
....if frames does leave, does the healing process have to start all over again???