Jake Butt and Bowl Games

Submitted by Catchafire on
Would he have been picked in an earlier round if he sat out the FSU bowl game and didn't get injured? I feel as though he would and as pointed out on other boards, Peppers/McAffrey/Fournette all sat out and got high draft picks. It makes no sense to play bowl games when so much money is on the line and players who should be drafted high don't because of a bowl injury. What does it mean for future bowl games? Mods delete please if there is a similar post.

Piston Blue

April 30th, 2017 at 12:24 AM ^

is that bowl games don't mean as much now as they used to. BCS bowl games used to feature two top 10 teams, many of whom were conference champs. I love the playoff system and am glad we are done with the BCS, but the downside of having a playoff means that other 'major' bowl games don't have nearly as much importance as they used to.

Gentleman Squirrels

April 30th, 2017 at 1:10 AM ^

I don't think the playoff system has diminshed bowl games. I think the automatic conference bids into bowls make for uninteresting matchups. It would be a lot better if the 5th ranked team played the 6th ranked team and so on and so forth. 

Players who are likely first round picks don't care about a meaningless bowl game and really it's hard to argue the point of them playing. If it's not a playoff game then they are risking a lot for nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Goggles Paisano

April 30th, 2017 at 11:33 AM ^

I agree.  What has diminished the bowl games is that there are 41 of them.  That means 64% of the D1 teams make a bowl.  That is absurd.  

I have no problem for the few high profile guys that choose to sit out the meaningless games. I do expect them to play in the playoff and maybe even the other high profile games (Rose, Orange, etc).  I believe Jake said if he could do it again, he would play.  It's not an easy decision as most of these guys really want to be there for their teammates and school, no matter how much they have riding on their draft status.  

 

 

father fisch

April 30th, 2017 at 7:28 AM ^

Specifically, it is the clarity of the championship that has done so. Under the BCS, there was still some posturing over the title, especially with the AP separation.

With the playoffs, it is settled on the field (correct number of teams notwithstanding). This certainty has diminished the value of the other games.

I think without question, we will see more top players sitting out.

Hail Harbo

April 30th, 2017 at 8:14 AM ^

Could also be the poster child for not performing winter conditioning drills.  I think people tend to forget that this is JBs second knee injury, the first injury having occurred in 2014 during winter conditioning.  A non-contact injury.  IOW, Butt could as easily have torn his ACL getting ready for the combine or pro-day.  It well could be that JB dropped so low because not only did he have this current injury, but that he has proven to be prone to ACL injuries.

Maynard

April 30th, 2017 at 12:30 AM ^

Good business decision for some of them. Ultimately it didn't matter what everyone said about not having heart or abandoning teammates. The results show that for the guys who sat out, there was a huge upside and for a guy like Jake, though it was admirable, it cost him somewhere in the neighborhood of $3 million.

Danwillhor

April 30th, 2017 at 12:33 AM ^

Not a great blocker and not in the "big, fast WR" TE mold. He's more of a consistent route runner and receiving TE. I think he fell no more than a round.

Catchafire

April 30th, 2017 at 12:35 AM ^

And he is arguably the best TE this draft.

Not related but along the same lines is the weak Washington​ out of conference schedule and making it into the playoffs. Why try hard/extra when you get penalized by it?

dipshit moron

April 30th, 2017 at 1:10 AM ^

that is stupid. so if you are a really good player, once your team has no chance at a championship just dont play anymore? very few teams get to the playoffs. so if i play at indiana and have proven im an outstanding player, why risk playing at all the last half of my senior year?

Larry Appleton

April 30th, 2017 at 8:32 AM ^

This is what I've been thinking. Could we see someone like Josh Rosen quit his team mid-season if the Playoffs/conference championship are already out of the picture?

VicTorious1

April 30th, 2017 at 1:06 AM ^

As college football fans, it's not disingenuous to admit that it could be bad for the game but in the best interest for the players. If it were my kid or someone close to me that I was advising, I would counsel that they are exposing themselves to little risk with little to no real upside.

We like the amateur​nature of the sport because it's fun to watch, not because it's fair to the players. If you're a potential top three-round pick, hell even top five-round, you should definitely consider sitting.

If enough did it, the NCAA might reconsider whether they want unpaid players to honor the terms of a nonbinding agreement. They might even start offering bonus compensation to players for playing in postseason exhibition games.

JOHNNAVARREISMYHERO

April 30th, 2017 at 1:37 AM ^

Okay, so what player is going to go into Harbaugh's office and tell him, Hey coach, I don't want to get hurt in this game and want to stay healthy for the NFL draft.

I mean Peppers was supposed to play in the game, isn't that why he posted the video of him getting injured to disprove claims that he sat out for the hell the of it?  He didn't choose to sit out, he sat out because he was hurt.

Also, the way to avoid this type of thing is to start getting into meaningful games.

Get into the Big Ten title game, no one is sitting out.  Win that, and you usually will be a playoff team, and again no one is sitting out those games.

I think you really want to carve out a mentality that your players want to play in every game and win every game.

Harbaugh wants to win, I must win as he says.  

Harbaugh is all about competition.   He waited out a kid so he could win a game of laser tag.

In the end, maybe a scenario like this leads to players leaving after 3 years (hopefully with a degree) or the ability to finish their degree before the NFL (like Andrew Luck did).

 

umichshea

April 30th, 2017 at 2:43 AM ^

Meaningless bowl game? I don't think a Top 10 matchup is meaningless.



At what point do you declare you aren't playing to avoid injury? Do you sit out games against IU and Illinois some November in your sophomore year because you aren't going to the playoff?



Pro sports has already ruined college basketball...Now you want to ruin football too?



Someone already addressed why Jake Butt fell and it wasn't all injury. My gut tells me most high end guys lose a round with a non-career threatening injury. That is probably less if Matt Millen is drafting.

alum96

April 30th, 2017 at 8:50 AM ^

Bridges has a 10 million insurance policy (the max) paid for by msu. Far fewer players to cover in nba draft makes it more feasible maybe.

As for OP it's going to happen more in non playoff bowl games and I can't blame players. Who the hell is watching Iowa vs say Mississippi State other than those 2 fan bases in a bowl. It diminishes the game a bit but I could never fault a player. Butt lost apparently 3 million. If he doesnt pan out and get to a 2nd contract that's a huge change in lifetime earnings

LabattsBleu

April 30th, 2017 at 3:28 AM ^

Not sure where it ends to be honest...

are there meaningless bowl games? Sure... but aren't there meaningless games period?

I mean if you aren't playing for a conference championship or have been eliminated from playoff contention in october, aren't the games 'meaningless'?

Furthermore, if you're a highly rated sophomore, isn't the non playoff bowls equally meaningless? Last i checked, catastrophic injuries that can end your career are not restricted to Jrs or Seniors.. it could happen to freshman and sophomores too...

should those kids sit out? if we don't make the playoffs, shouldn't Gary sit out a "meaningless" bowl game?

Mr. Elbel

April 30th, 2017 at 7:31 AM ^

Exactly. Ask grant Newsome if he would have sat out the game he got injured in. Of course, had he known he'd be injured like that, he might just have sat, but no way he sits just at the risk of injury. There's always a risk. No game is meaningless. You get better at football by playing football.

alum96

April 30th, 2017 at 8:55 AM ^

Uhh with all due respect who is grant newsome to the NFL? We are talking prime nfl prospects . We are talking when should a guy sit out when he has moved into high level draft status. Maybe Gary you could have the discussion about based on pedigree and potential but this has nothing to do with guys who are unknowns or marginal prospects. Jake Long as a senior or Taylor lewan yes. Newsome was just a guy starting a career.

LabattsBleu

April 30th, 2017 at 2:56 PM ^

i think the reason Newsome was suggested was that football is inherently risky and kids and get hurt any time...

Meaningless Bowl games can easily be extended to meaningless games in the regular season...

Butt getting hurt sucks and i feel bad for him... but at the same time, how many top end prospects have there been in the last twenty years that got injured in a "meaningless bowl game" that affected their draft position?

Butt? anyone else? MaGahee doesn't count, because that wasn't a 'meaningless bowl' at all.

Sure seems like the actual odds of getting a major injury that affects one's drafft position in the draft in a 'meantingless bowl' isn't particularly high.

MGB

April 30th, 2017 at 5:00 AM ^

Maybe I'm old school.. But I don't think any game is meaningless. You play to win the damn game. That's what makes you a competitor. My heart sunk when we gave up the winning td to fsu in the final seconds of the orange bowl. It wasn't meaningless to me, and I'm sure it wasn't meaningless to the players either. Just my two cents.

bacon

April 30th, 2017 at 5:41 AM ^

Slippery slope. Football is inherently dangerous, and it is not a sport you can play if you're scared of getting hurt. So it's a catch-22 to say I'm siting out because I might get hurt, but it's also bad to play if you're scared of hurting yourself. You might start second guessing yourself and play not to get hurt. Not block on certain plays or avoid contact on others. I suppose players could also come to an agreement with coaches that they won't run certain routes, or be in on plays as a blocker, but what message does that send to the backup who does have to do those things. Might as well go play a different sport

ABOUBENADHEM

April 30th, 2017 at 6:38 AM ^

Jake left his mark on UM in many ways. I for one appreciate him doing it his way, and will always remember and respect him for that. That kind of selflessness and team first outlook gets rewarded in life.

Catchafire

April 30th, 2017 at 7:43 AM ^

If we look at it for what it is, Jake lost a couple million dollars and instead gets 500k or whatever it was. It's not as if we didn't have an Armada of good TEs either that could have stepped up.

We see a version of this in men's basketball with players turning pro after only 2 years. For a lot of these kids, a nice contract would set them and their families up for life. While I understand the need to play every game and no game is meaningless, I can't knock a player for not playing in a bowl game when they have a lot riding on not being injured.

Bodogblog

April 30th, 2017 at 9:44 AM ^

You can ccontinue to extend this argument beyond "meaningless" bowl games.  This thread has mentioned playoffs or conference championship games, or even those that keep a team in the running for a conference e title.  But what do those things even mean in the context of what these players can lose.  Say it's $3 million lost, yes that's a lottery ticket gone, an enormous and life changing amount of money.  What does a chance at a B1G title mean in that context?  Or a B1G championship for your school or even a playoff?  How many here who don't even play on the team would risk $3M for one of those things?  

Alternatively, are some I this thread no longer lol'ing at Malik McDowell for seemingly phoning it in much of the year?  His team was out of it, he essentially did what many are suggesting.  But that certainly cost him as well. 

jabberwock

April 30th, 2017 at 10:06 AM ^

I mentioned that I don't think sitting out will end with meaningless bowl games.

It's going to include end of season games, lower-level conference championships, etc before long.

My scenario was if Michigan goes 6-6 and misses a bowl game, how many of you would be ok with a Butt or Peppers skipping the OSU game?

As a fan, my sympathy for a players health & financial future actually dose have a limit.

Mybe if enough big-time players start skipping games & getting eventual blowback it swings the pendulum back towards the Team, and less towards celebrity athletes?  



Unfortunately, all this does is signal to me that college football is inching closer & closer to the NFL, and that makes me sad.

 

UMgradMSUdad

April 30th, 2017 at 1:55 PM ^

Oklahoma DT Charles Walker seems to be a player who skipped most of his last season to avoid injury.  He was projected by some as a possible first or second round draft pick early in the 2016 season. According to some of the local sports radio discussion (based on comments by coaches but never confirmed), he took himself out of the TCU game with a self-diagnosed concussion. Later Walker said he wasn't going to play at OU again and was preparing for the NFL draft and his concern was to providing support for his daughter.  Mike Stoops called him out as a quitter.

More recently, his agent said he was diagnosed with depression, and some of the symptoms he was complaining about were related to depression rather than concussions.  He went undrafted, and it doesn't look like he has signed as a free agent yet.

 

JamieH

April 30th, 2017 at 2:41 PM ^

After seeing what happened in this draft, any highly rated kid who plays in non-playoff bowl game is a fool.  Fournette and McCaffery were not punished AT ALL in the draft for their decision.  Butt lost MILLIONS and life security.   He could have retired for life on the money that he lost due to that injury.



As a college football fan it pains me to say this, but playing in a non-playoff bowl game is just a risk that is no longer worth taking.  The risk is that you lose millions of dollars.  The reward?    You get to play one more game with your team, which is of personal value.  But your team cannot win any championship or title.  It is basically an exhibition game.  Jake Butt just lost $2-$3 million dollars for playing in an exhibition game.  Was it worth it?  Hell no.



Obviously every kid will have to make their own choice.  But if I were advising a kid, it seems like an obvious choice to sit out.  That is the system that has been set up.