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Interesting Discussion with a Pro Scout

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September 22nd, 2010 at 11:58 PM
#1
BigTex
BigTex's picture
Joined: 02/23/2010
MGoPoints: 334
Interesting Discussion with a Pro Scout

I was recently on a flight to Texas and sat next to one of the lead national scouts for the San Diego Chargers. He had just completed a brief visit to some Michigan schools, including UM, MSU and Central Mich. We had a great conversation, and he was eager to get my take on future Michigan players worth keeping an eye on. This guy was also part of the Miami Dolphins and was involved with bringing Henne and Long to the Dolphins shortly before joining the Chargers. Here are some items of note from our discussion that afternoon(NOTE: I am not implying this is profound or unique insight, but I thought it was worth sharing):

  • Aside from the seniors of the 2007 team, this year's team is the first he has seen in the last 2-3 years he would consider a "Michigan team". He said it was clear that there was nothing behind the seniors in 2007...he feels the ground work has been laid to bring Michigan back to where we should be
  • He said Rich Rod was one of his favorite coaches, and he has a great relationship with pro scouts (unlike the HC from East Lansing who was more "closed off" and didn't seem "welcoming"). He has always been impressed with RRod's offenses and expects great things from Michigan in the near future. He said RRod is such a great guy, really fun to talk to, and even more fun to listen to.
  • Robinson's defenses have always been a "bend don't break" style that simply count on the opposing offense to make enough mistakes for your offense to outscore them. He felt Robinson was very gifted at player development, even though his schemes are often too passive
  • They are very interested in Denard, but not as a quarterback...he commented on his speed, but noted that his height is definitely exaggerated (surprise, surprise)
  • He asked if I knew much about Mike Barwis (to which I responded he is the only person capable of beating Chuck Norris in a fight)...he said Barwis has done amazing things for this program, and Barwis' abilities/expertise is legendary even among the professional ranks
  • He knew Steve Schilling personally and was keeping a very close eye on his progress. He also commented how Mike Martin looked like a beast (tell us something we don't know)
  • He felt MSU didn't look like a solid program on the whole...there were some athletes who were on the radar, but nothing special.

To avoid becoming annoying, I turned the conversation to discuss his travel schedule, family, etc., but it was cool to see his notes about different players he had been scouting, and what he sees for their professional potential. It was also nice to speak with a qualified and unbiased spectator who sees the same potential and excitement that many of us are seeing with this team.

GO BLUE!

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 12:02 AM | Good to know that RR has a (Score:1)
Keeeeurt
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Joined: 09/04/2009
MGoPoints: 3645

Good to know that RR has a good relationship with pro scouts.  That has to be a selling point for recruits. (Dee Hart, I hope you read this thread)

Me fail english thats unpossible!

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September 23rd, 2010 at 12:34 PM | Very interesting (Score:1)
profitgoblue
Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 19415

It is very interesting to hear that Coach Rod has a good reputation with the scouts, especially given the issues with scouts on campus (see Nick Saban's temper-tantrum).  Similar to the kill-em with kindness saying, I think its probably better to be respected among the scouts rather than closed off, for numerous reasons - attractive to recruits who all want to play in the NFL, helps current players take the next step, and maybe helps keep unauthorized contact with players to a minimum?

Disgruntled former moderator.  I got a lot of problems with you people!

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September 23rd, 2010 at 1:05 PM | Agents not scouts (Score:1)
HooverStreetGeoff
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Joined: 02/07/2009
MGoPoints: 12

Saban's comments were directed at agents, not scouts.  It's the agents you hear about having improper contact with athletes, since the agent can directly profit off of them for their whole NFL career, but the scout just reports back on which guys to pick.

http://hooverstreetrag.blogspot.com

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September 23rd, 2010 at 12:04 AM | Interesting stuff (Score:1)
ThWard
Joined: 07/10/2008
MGoPoints: 2633

Not surprised re: Denard (height being an issue at QB) - did he discuss what he'd eye DR for at the next level (I realize DR is only a sophomore, so this is very premature) - one assumes the same position that Meyer and other CFB coaches recruited him for (CB)?

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September 23rd, 2010 at 12:08 AM | It'd be hard for me to play (Score:1)
Ultimate Quizmaster
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Joined: 05/05/2009
MGoPoints: 16

It'd be hard for DR to play CB in the NFL is he hasn't had experience in college...I see him as a ninja slot guy.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 12:10 AM | Not surprisingly, he (Score:1)
BigTex
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Joined: 02/23/2010
MGoPoints: 334

Not surprisingly, he mentioned DRob as a slot receiver...size is certainly a concern, but his speed is obviously a tremendous asset. 

He had also not heard of DG, which I guess makes sense as he is on the opposite side of the spectrum.  However, I told him to leave DG alone until we were done with him...sometime after 2013.

He was also quite familiar with the Forciers.  He suggested that Tate learn (which I think he has done) to be a team player and be prepared to serve in backup duty when called to do so.  Otherwise, his best option would be looking at starting for some 1-AA program somewhere.

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 12:19 AM | I think Tate could start at (Score:1)
jrt336
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Joined: 01/16/2009
MGoPoints: 4490

I think Tate could start at 80% of FBS schools.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 1:16 AM | Correction (Score:1)
MGoRob
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Joined: 03/14/2010
MGoPoints: 2284

If he's good enough to start at an NCAA school such as Michigan, doesn't that imply he could start at 100% of FBS schools?

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September 23rd, 2010 at 2:37 AM | Uh, he isnt currently (Score:1)
MGoDC
Joined: 03/21/2010
MGoPoints: 2303

Uh, he isnt currently starting this year though so he's already below 100%. He also wouldnt start at Nebraska, Stanford, Washington, Arkansas, Alabama, Ohio State, etc.

80% sounds correct or even generous. If you honestly think Tate could beat out any of the top-20 QBs for their job currently then you should probably meet up with Lou Holtz for lunch to discuss the virtues of being a huge homer.

For the record I think you may be confused as you reference NCAA and FBS as different.

FBS = mainstream programs like Michigan.

FCS= Umass, Villanova, App State, etc.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 8:11 AM | Yep, my mistake.  Switched (Score:1)
MGoRob
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Joined: 03/14/2010
MGoPoints: 2284

Yep, my mistake.  Switched FBS and FCS meanings by accident.  Why couldn't we just stick with I-A and I-AA?

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September 23rd, 2010 at 11:55 AM | More like 90% (Score:1)
iheartlarryfoote
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Joined: 03/26/2010
MGoPoints: -2

Tate may not be able to start at 80% of the schools right now but Locker won't be at Washington next year and Pryor and Mallett won't be at their schools in two years.  Tate could start almost anywhere eventually.  Penn State might be somepace that he couldn't because Bolden is a freshman but then again he might be able to beat out Bolden.

Hail to the college whose colors we wear. Hurrah for the Yellow and the Blue.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 10:05 AM | Denard in the NFL (Score:1)
nofunforfu
Joined: 07/22/2010
MGoPoints: 140

I see Denard potentially become a Josh Cribbs-type player in the NFL, utilizing his speed on kickoff and maybe punt returns before he learns a little bit more playing WR. If he can stay healthy I think he could certainly see a team draft him in the mid-rounds with the idea of putting his speed to use on returns.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 1:17 AM | Scouts often have divergent views (Score:1)
ElGuapo
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Joined: 08/29/2010
MGoPoints: 371

Scouts often have divergent views on different players.   For instance most scouts thought Seneca Wallace (Iowa State) was too short to play NFL QB.   He is around 5'10".    Most scouts predicted that he would have to switch positions in the NFL.   But one scout saw things differently and guess what....  Wallace has been playing NFL QB for quite a few years now and proving all doubters wrong.

Denard is very accurate as a passer.   Has a gun and runs like a deer.   And from personal accounts of his size, most say that he is atleast 5'11".   But even if he is shorter (which I doubt) there will be an NFL team out there (much like there was with Wallace, Tebow, and few others) that will see his potential at QB (ironically, much like RR did) and give him his shot there..... and he is likely to impress.    Being made of delithium and all, I would never bet against Denard.  

... 

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September 23rd, 2010 at 8:59 AM | neither would i, however in (Score:1)
Maizeforlife
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Joined: 03/03/2010
MGoPoints: 2423

neither would i, however in the nfl i don't think he'd be able to throw the ball over the offensive line.  The deep ball has to be solid for the QB in the NFL and they can't be floaters.  I think DRob will play slot in the pros.  WR's with QB experience have an advantage when it comes to necessary knowledge for route running.  Who knows though, you could be right and DRob could prove the doubters wrong, yet again.

You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is never get involved in a land war in Asia - but only slightly less well-known is this: Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line!

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September 23rd, 2010 at 9:39 AM | How much taller is an NFL (Score:1)
Huntington Wolverine
Joined: 10/26/2009
MGoPoints: 2375

How much taller is an NFL O-line than our current O-line  (Molk aside).  Also, Denard has demonstrated a decent deep ball several times this season and I anticipate his passing will improve as he gains additional game experience and coaching since he's only a sophomore at this point.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 12:17 AM | Interesting conversation, but (Score:1)
Scotthany
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Joined: 10/07/2008
MGoPoints: 2246

Interesting conversation, but next time paragraph breaks pls

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September 23rd, 2010 at 12:39 AM | Sorry..despite my efforts to (Score:1)
BigTex
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Joined: 02/23/2010
MGoPoints: 334

Sorry..despite my efforts to do so (appears accurate in Preview Mode) the formatting goes away when I actually save/post.  Suggestions?

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 2:28 AM | If you're in plain text editor (Score:1)
FGB
FGB's picture
Joined: 09/24/2009
MGoPoints: 1732

you may need to put <p> and then hit return after each paragraph break you want, despite the presentation in your comment box. 

I have to do this at work due to the fact that I'm not permitted to download upgrades for software, including Firefox, so I'm slowly getting left behind the rest of the internet (Youtube has "no longer supported" my browser version for months)

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September 23rd, 2010 at 12:48 AM | Denard at the next level (Score:1)
The Shredder
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Joined: 07/01/2009
MGoPoints: 3721

Denard at the next level reminds me of

Antwaan Randle El

http://midnightmaize.blogspot.com/

Latest MM Post(3-22-13) DENARD ROBINSON SIGNED MY SONIC!

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September 23rd, 2010 at 2:42 AM | I think his NFL future is more comparable to (Score:1)
FGB
FGB's picture
Joined: 09/24/2009
MGoPoints: 1732

Percy Harvin

I believe in his QB skills, but I don't think NFL teams will. Nonetheless, if Matt Jones can play WR in the NFL, then so can Denard.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 8:04 AM | Another comparison I've heard: (Score:1)
BiSB
BiSB's picture
Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 27918

Chris Johnson

They no longer call me Bisbiño

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September 23rd, 2010 at 1:37 AM | The scout is spot on about (Score:1)
TheOracle6
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Joined: 09/02/2010
MGoPoints: 1636

The scout is spot on about GRob and his bend but don't break defensive scheme.  You see alot of the elite defenses in the FBS do not employ that stragety.  I'm hoping that once we have the depth and experience on our defense that GERG stops being so passive and starts dialing up the blitzes and the pressure from all angles. Offense wins games but defenses win championships and every defense that has won the past decade has been a physical unit that puts a lot of pressure on the offense through blitzing, stunting, and gap explosion.

Champions of the west, GO BLUE!

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September 23rd, 2010 at 1:44 AM | Am I the only one that just (Score:1)
Bando Calrissian
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Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 7919

Am I the only one that just flat-out doesn't like this quote?

 

"Robinson's defenses have always been a "bend don't break" style that simply count on the opposing offense to make enough mistakes for your offense to outscore them."

Yep, it's true.  And yep, not a fan.  While this offense is definitely capable of doing that, I can't think of any reason why it's ideal to approach it this way.  Sorry, Gerg.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 3:35 AM | Bend, PLEASE bend. (Score:1)
greenphoenix
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Joined: 09/18/2010
MGoPoints: 823

Until we have cornerbacks that can shut down opponents in man coverage, this seems like a pretty good approach.

truis football dia. 

Laoch biùthaidh.

Dont Fear the Football Gods.  They will make us warrior heros.

deagh gorm!

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September 23rd, 2010 at 8:22 AM | Our defense is bend but don't (Score:1)
Hoke_Floats
Joined: 09/21/2010
MGoPoints: 2060

Our defense is bend but don't break in order for the offense to have some time to rest on the sidelines

Running 70 yards to hug a teammate after a big play can make a guy tired

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September 23rd, 2010 at 6:17 AM | I have never been a fan (Score:1)
randyfloyd
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Joined: 08/19/2008
MGoPoints: 1042

of the "bend but don't break" defense.

I probably would have told the scout that Michigan's next top 5 caliber player would be Lewan.

It's tough being Blue in Columbus!!!

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September 23rd, 2010 at 7:14 AM | For Now (Score:1)
TX2AA
Joined: 02/17/2010
MGoPoints: 114

For now, I don't mind this philosophy.  Some of our LB's have a hard time filling the correct gap(s) as it is, I wouldn't want to imagine them blitzing into the wrong spot.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 7:54 AM | Derp (Score:1)
Jensencoach
Jensencoach's picture
Joined: 12/12/2009
MGoPoints: -188

Derp derpity derp

"If they ever catch me, they can have 'em." -Denard Robinson

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September 23rd, 2010 at 8:55 AM | We did talk briefly about (Score:1)
BigTex
BigTex's picture
Joined: 02/23/2010
MGoPoints: 334

We did talk briefly about RRod at the next level, but nothing really insightful.  He is convinced that RRod will be successful at Michigan, and after watching practice felt his time for success would come sooner than later.

Initially, he didn't mention Lewan, but referenced a monster left tackle getting reps with the ones and twos.  He also seemed quite shocked to learn he was a Freshman.

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 8:44 AM | That is why a decommit or transfer is not (Score:1)
UMMAN83
UMMAN83's picture
Joined: 11/26/2009
MGoPoints: 979

necesssarily a bad thing.  The naysayers will make of big deal of this.  However, in the end a spot is opened up for someone that could be better and really wants to attend a great university.  Go Blue.

Go Blue !!!

Dave Brandon: Detailed and thorough investigation proves that Freep report was intentionally misleading.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 9:59 AM | Decommits aren't necessarily (Score:1)
Magnus
Magnus's picture
Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 27472

Decommits aren't necessarily bad.

Transfers are a different story.  Especially at this point in Michigan's program, any kid transferring hurts our APR severely and could cause our program even more trouble.  I couldn't care less about Dewayne Peace or Jordan Barnes or Christian Wilson decommitting.  But the Justin Turner/Austin White/etc. BS really annoys me.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 20

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September 23rd, 2010 at 9:02 AM | Well this version of the (Score:1)
UMICH1606
Joined: 02/21/2010
MGoPoints: 1861

Well this version of the 3-3-5 is nothing like the 3-3-5 that they ran at West Virginia. They attacked the QB a lot more out of this base at WVU. I am holding out faith that when they have a back 7/8 that they feel comfortable in, we will start seeing how it is supposed to be run. My feeling on the defense as a whole is if they were married to the 3-3-5 from the beginning that they should have paid the cost to make it more appealing to Jeff Casteel to make the move with Rich from the jump. We would have probably been further along on D, as opposed to the 3 years in, and still seems like we are running in quick sand trying to get a defense built. We would have avoided the D-Coordinator, and scheme carousel at the very least. I am sure GERG has ran parts of it before at some point, and can teach it just fine, I hope he can anyway, but Jeff Casteel knows it backwards and forwards, and the transition would have been more seamless. At least in my opinion.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 9:46 AM | Schilling (Score:1)
Dreisbach1817
Dreisbach1817's picture
Joined: 01/12/2010
MGoPoints: 5849

I'm curious as to what pro scouts think of him.  Very highly touted/physically gifted player.  I would guess 4-5th rd pick.  Does that sound accurate to everyone?  Even if you thought Schilling was a very solid pro prospect, Guards typically don't go that high anyway.  I know a team like the Jets, who traditionally like drafting UM players (D Harris, Askew, Hobson) would like a new guard next season.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 10:48 AM | Dude, great post (Score:1)
Elno Lewis
Elno Lewis's picture
Joined: 12/05/2008
MGoPoints: 1143

Thanks for the thread.  Kewl to read.

 

no potato salad for you!

Time wounds all heels. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwGXMryTbwE

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September 23rd, 2010 at 11:16 AM | I understand about the height (Score:1)
bluenyc
bluenyc's picture
Joined: 06/25/2010
MGoPoints: 7029

I understand about the height issues for Denard, but what about Vick.  He's listed at 6 foot, what maybe a inch taller than Denard. 

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September 23rd, 2010 at 12:15 PM | Chargers need to draft a M player (Score:1)
sandiego
Joined: 12/15/2008
MGoPoints: -572

In my 10 years as a season ticket holder, I've refused to purchase a Chargers jersey, because to my recollection (qualifier), they have not drafted anyone from Michigan.  Once they do, I'll buy a damn jersey!

Drink a pint of tequila, 12 beers and start one post about Justin Boren in bad taste and end up with - 590 points.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 12:22 PM | Lightly off the UM topic, but (Score:1)
ChasingRabbits
ChasingRabbits's picture
Joined: 01/19/2010
MGoPoints: 1238

Lightly off the UM topic, but you said he stopped at Central Michigan too?   Was there any talk or notes about Nick Bellore the MLB at CMU?  Would be interested to hear a Pro scouting report.  Interestingly he went to the same small HS as our new Punter.  Its a small school and it has been churning out D1 talent at a remarkable rate the last couple years.   

Go Blue!

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September 23rd, 2010 at 12:41 PM | Unfortunately I don't have (Score:1)
BigTex
BigTex's picture
Joined: 02/23/2010
MGoPoints: 334

Unfortunately I don't have any info on CMU.  He was actually putting his notes on the CMU team into his computer as we were talking.  As I don't know much about CMU (and it was clear I was all blue) we really didn't discuss their Central.

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base.

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September 23rd, 2010 at 1:12 PM | That was really good.   (Score:1)
NateVolk
NateVolk's picture
Joined: 07/19/2010
MGoPoints: 3827

That was really good.   Thanks a lot for sharing!

Did he give you any more insight on the great things he saw for the program and time frames?

"because character wins in life and character wins on the football field....."  1-11-11

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September 23rd, 2010 at 3:38 PM | I would have love (Score:1)
Michigan4Life
Joined: 07/29/2010
MGoPoints: 5674

to hear about his opinion about Pryor's NFL potential as a QB which I think isn't much because his arm isn't all that good.  Pryor seems more like a WR than a QB to me.

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