I don't get the case for Casteel

Submitted by iawolve on

Maybe Casteel is a great guy and he has had success as a coordinator. I have no idea how or if he recruits, but he is a younger guy that should (should) be able to identify with recruits. 

However, a few things:

1) If we are to fire the second DC in three (!) years, I think it is time to bring in an outsider in that is given the authority to broom the staff on that side of the ball who have remained a constant through this disaster. I don't trust RR to "get the gang back together" since I am sure Tall* and Gibson would then stay on board. It sort of feels like we are at the table doubling down on the same bad bet.

2) I actually do believe that scheme does matter. I am done with the 3-3-5 nonsense and this would be a result of a Casteel hire. I am also tired of hearing my head coach say we go between the 4-3/3-4/3-3-5, if we have three schemes, we have none. There are many top defenses in this league, they led by DCs who are paid many dollars to coach against teams in this league, so run a defense built for this league, not one that is made to stop our offense. On the flip side, we have already seen how defenses line up to stop our own offense from scoring (not gaining yards), let's just copy that when Nebraska shows up next year since they are the only team who looks like us (Illinois may get there with the new QB, I don't know).

The only way someone good will take a chance on this if GERG is gone is if they have full run, the dump truck of cash is backed up and maybe a multi-year contract is signed. Otherwise, the track record looks poor from a longevity standpoint which makes hiring more difficult.

 

*For the Tall supporters, I am not so sure Tall made BG a first rounder. I think BG's uncanny explosiveness/strength, Barwis and his ability to destroy in 4-3 scheme that fit his talents appropriately (e.g. like Griffin from USC, not dropping into the flats to cover TEs) made him into a first rounder.

mikefromaa

November 2nd, 2010 at 4:22 PM ^

The current defensive philosophy, scheme, and execution have been a total joke.  I cant handle watching more of the same.   It is time to overpay someone who knows what they're doing. 

His Dudeness

November 2nd, 2010 at 4:26 PM ^

1)  How would it feel any different than us doubling down on the same bad bet if he hired someone new anyway? He has already done this and it hasn't worked. This is your last hand of cards, you may as well double down.

2) You obviously haven't read a single word of this blog. We run multiple fronts every game. Stop it with the 3-3-5.

In my opinion, Casteel is our only hope.

jmblue

November 2nd, 2010 at 4:35 PM ^

But the fact that we're running multiple fronts may be part of the problem.  With a young defense, running multiple schemes can only add to the confusion.  The problem seems to be that GERG doesn't understand how to generate pressure out of the 3-3-5.  Casteel blitzes all the time, from every direction.  GERG isn't comfortable doing that.  The 3-3-5 is not intended to be a passive scheme, but GERG has effectively turned it into one, which necessitates periodic switching to a 4-4, which probably just confuses our defenders all the more.

I think Ideally, RR would run the 3-3-5 the large majority of the time, and not be switching up regularly.  That's where Casteel's importance comes in.

GCS

November 2nd, 2010 at 4:41 PM ^

Bring in Casteel gets everybody on the defensive staff on the same page, gets a coordinator that really truly understands the scheme being run, and gets a person who can probably get the players to execute better. These things matter far more than what the scheme is.

thesauce2424

November 2nd, 2010 at 4:59 PM ^

There's probably a diary on here somewhere addressing this, but I wonder how the 3-3-5 holds up against an experienced, competent and mauling offensive line. This is the problem right now. Even with Marting playing out of his mind and Van Bergen playing like a competent B10 tackle, as soon as these linemen get to our linebackers( who are usually out of position) it's all over. The next line of defense are inexperienced, slow reacting and usually out of place. All of this gets compounded by poor tackling and angles. My only problem with all out blitzing is that how do we know that these blitzers will know what the hell they're doing. It's not as simple as just calling a blitz and boom everyone does the right thing. It most definitely could be worse.

The main thing a 4 man front does, especially if martin warrants a double team, is give the linebackers more time and less linemen to take on. And since " we've got a problem getting off blocks" seems to be a major soundbite out of RR, it would definitely seem to help things out. The problem with this is, we don't have a "real" 2nd interior d-lineman. Martin, RVB, Roh and probably Black would be who should play the front 4. But, RVB and Roh are too light and Black is too young. And we lose an extra player from the pass game.

It's fun talking yourself in circles, I can't imagine how the football staff feels about having the "damned if we do, damned if we don't" convo every weak about defensive philosophy.

saveferris

November 2nd, 2010 at 5:43 PM ^

The problem seems to be that GERG doesn't understand how to generate pressure out of the 3-3-5.  Casteel blitzes all the time, from every direction.  GERG isn't comfortable doing that.

Is it a case of GERG being uncomfortable blitzing often from every angle or is it a case of him simply being unable to do it with the personnel on hand?

iawolve

November 2nd, 2010 at 5:39 PM ^

First, assuming third time is a charm seems a bit crazy. If it was so obvious GERG was not a fit due to schemes and current coaches, how did we get him in the first place? Do we need R2D2 zipping around Schembechler Hall showing a video of RR asking for Casteel since he is our only hope? (sorry, that just popped into my mind with that last line, it really has no bearing on the discussion)

Secondly, I read this blog constantly, watch a lot of football and have had the ability to meet defensive coaches from Iowa. I understand their philosophy and scratch my head with ours. We have run more 3 man fronts this year than I have seen anyone else run in this league and almost to our detriment (Indiana, UMass) before we hit the power teams in the conference where we started to switch up. However, we still seem to switch back out to a three man front more than anyone else even playing power teams. Case in point at Iowa/MSU, they switched to a 3 man front against 5 wides, we do it on 3rd and 4 yards for no discernible reason. The reason we flip around is that we abandoned our scheme from last year in a move to the 3-3-5 when the year started. That is not even my opinion, read any of the press from the pre-season. I remember how we were all studying USC before last year started and now we went with a different base with a move to multiple bases.

 

 

 

Greg McMurtry

November 2nd, 2010 at 7:17 PM ^

It was so obvious in the PSU game that Roh is being misused as a LB.  It basically turns Roh into an average to below average player with him at LB.  I would actually like to see the front 4 as Roh, RVB, Martin and Banks.  LBs are Demens, Mouton, Tom Gordon (Spur).  CBs are Floyd/Rogers.  Bandit is Kovacs, Deep safety is Carvin Johnson.  I've removed Cam Gordon from the starting lineup as I think Tom Gordon actually played better at Spur.  Also, with Carvin at Deep S, it provides a bigger, faster, more experienced guy (albeit at Spur for a few games) than Vinopal.  Stir, serve.

BraveWolverine730

November 2nd, 2010 at 4:27 PM ^

Well I can tell you why you don't get the case for Casteel, it's because you somehow are convinced that our defense is bad because we run a 3-3-5(which we have run very little if any the past 3 games) and not because we are starting a bajillion underclassmen.  My preference is that either they get Casteel or completely clean house on the defense and let the new guy pick his staff.

jmblue

November 2nd, 2010 at 4:29 PM ^

The argument for Casteel rests on two premises: 1) that RR is committed to running the 3-3-5 and 2) that he's committed to Tall, Gibson and Braithwaite.  Casteel should have no problem with either, which can't be said for almost anyone else.  If RR isn't committed to those two things, then things are wide open. 

Yooper

November 2nd, 2010 at 4:52 PM ^

to me it is not particularly compelling.  There is no magic to the scheme, or everyone would be using it.  Football coaches are great at copying what works, and the fact that most programs use other schemes should tell a lot.  Also, loyalty is all well and good, but loyalty to people who haven't performed is a bad thing.  As Head Coach your loyalty has to be to the success of the program first and only.  If your subordinates aren't performing, loyalty means treat them fairly on the way out and help them find a job elsewhere.

profitgoblue

November 2nd, 2010 at 5:24 PM ^

Is it clear that Rodriguez is the one carrying the banner for the 3-3-5?  Is he definitely insisting that it be used no matter what?  As an uneducated outsider, I see Rodriguez handing over the reins on the defense and, as such, it seems to me like he would be happy with whatever scheme works best.  But that may not be the case and that is my question.

jmblue

November 2nd, 2010 at 6:39 PM ^

It's definitely RR who is pushing for the 3-3-5.  That is well-established.  GERG did not use it much when he was at Syracuse, and neither did Shafer when he was at Stanford. 

What's hard to understand is why RR, who spends most of his time working on the offense, is so adamant about running this particular defense. 

Ben from SF

November 2nd, 2010 at 7:01 PM ^

RR is pushing for the 3-3-5 because that's the only defense his position coaches (Tall, Gibson, and Braithwaite) know.  They don't know how to teach the required techniques for a 4-3 Tampa 2 defense, or a 3-4 that GERG seems to prefer.  RR will not fire Tall, Gibson and Braithwaite because they are his boys.

bacon1431

November 2nd, 2010 at 4:37 PM ^

We need to scrap the 3 man front as our base formation. Our Dlinemen are good size for 3 of the 4 spots on a 4 man line, but way too small for a 3 man front. Our position of strength is getting pushed around a ton this year because they are too small for a 3 man front.

I'm for bringing in an outsider and washing the slate clean on defense. That is the only thing that will change perception about our defense to recruits (and we still need a ton more talent on D!!!)

Section 1

November 2nd, 2010 at 4:52 PM ^

as "washing the slate clean" with an outsider?

Or, do you propose to force a DC on Rich Rodriguez who may not be his choice?

I'd agree with anybody, that the Jeff Casteel hysteria (there will be 50 more "Jeff Casteel" threads between now and the end of November, no doubt) needs to get reduced by about four levels.  He's not our DC.  There's little evidence to suggest that we'll get him as our DC in the immediate future.

The one thing that I insist on, is that Rich Rod Rodriguez has been going to Plans B, C and D ever since he could not get Casteel to join up with Michigan, and that RR's first choice -- Casteel -- has been putting out first class defensive teams all along.  So it can be done.

And it just cannot be said enough; our defensive personnel is young, disastrous, and disastrously young.  I'm okay with wiping the Greg Robinson slate clean, but just as the Casteel-love is at a hysterical stage, so is the Robinson-hate.

Section 1

November 2nd, 2010 at 6:49 PM ^

was Rich Rod's first choice for the job of Defensive Coordinator.  And to whom he apparently went back to, when that job reopened.

That makes a lot of sense. 

MightAndMainWeCheer

November 2nd, 2010 at 5:30 PM ^

I agree with you if we can find one more DT (i.e. somebody who is big enough and strong enough).  If we are playing with an undersized, relatively weak and/or poor technique-wise DT, then it makes no difference; the offense will attack and push around that person every time.

I honestly don't think it makes a difference between the 3-man line and the 4-man line.  Our defensive players still need to get bigger and stronger, particularly in the DL (Martin and RVB the obvious exceptions).  Penn State's OL was pushing back our backup linemen at will; it's almost impossible to play LB when that happens.  Another obvious fact is that our LBs and secondary need to get faster.

psychomatt

November 2nd, 2010 at 5:06 PM ^

I question whether Casteel is even as good as everyone thinks. The Big East is the weakest of the AQ conferences so his defensive numbers are not as convincing to me as they appear to be to many others on this board. Also, it is time to clean house on the defense and bring in a traditional defensive coach with a proven track record. With RR's offense, we do not need the #1 rated defense in the country. All we need is a top 25 defense, but we cannot swing and miss for a third time on a DC. I like the idea of Mike Trgovac (if we can even get him), but whoever it is has to be as close to a sure thing as possible. Swapping Gerg for Casteel just feels like rearranging the deck chairs and kicking the decision to fire RR down the road another 12 months.

Brandon and RR should work together on a process similar to the one used to hire RR and agree on a new DC who should have full authority to replace anyone and everyone on the defensive staff. If RR cannot see that he has had a fair chance on the defensive side of the ball and refuses to go along, he should be replaced at the end of this season. But leaving him free to hire his "next" DC, whether it is Casteel or anyone else, while retaining the remainder of the existing defensive staff and the current defensive scheme is to resign the football program to a fourth year with no defense at all.

Ben from SF

November 2nd, 2010 at 4:51 PM ^

GERG's biggest failure is that he tries to drive a Ducati like he needs training wheels.

Tall, Gibson, and Braithwaite are used to aggressive blitz schemes.  At WVU, they blitz almost every down, often with 6 or 7 guys, and teach DBs to play tight for 10 yards and then hunt for INTs.  The rampant blitzing also plugs all the gaps and stop any inside runs.

GERG's conservatism negates all the positional teachings as our DL don't two gap, our LB are stuck in read-and-react mode when blockers routinely bury them.  Our DB plays entirely too much zone for the man-centric training they received.

Casteel would be able to call the right plays that take advantages of our athleticism and hides our lack of size.  Casteel would also be able to develop a more creative gameplan when we play power running teams.  The WVU / Alabama game in 2007 Sugar Bowl is the prime example.

If we are to retain GERG, we will need to have assistants who can teach 2-gap, who can teach read and react, and who can teach zone coverages.

MightAndMainWeCheer

November 2nd, 2010 at 5:21 PM ^

I'm not sure what you mean by some of this.  I'm pretty sure we're trying to play a 2-gap system but our linemen (not named Martin and RVB) are doing a horrible job in it. 

A 2-gap system is pretty conservative in nature as it doesn't rely on a lot of blitzing but rather linemen holding up blockers and allowing the reading LBs to attack the ballcarrier unscathed.  Our linemen are consistently getting knocked back and combo blocked; since our LBs are playing read-react, they are basically dead ducks when a LB comes out at them.  The solution is then to use a 1-gap defense with run blitzes.  This requires man coverage behind it in case the offense decides to pass; our corners have proven that they will get burned often in man-to-man.  Pick your poison.

How do you know that our DBs have received man-centric training?  Has that been reported somewhere (not being sarcastic, it's just something I have never seen/heard and is quite contrary to what we have observed for the entire season thus far)?

Ben from SF

November 2nd, 2010 at 5:32 PM ^

According to my barely trained eyes, too many of our players  try to execute the defensive plays with the wrong technique.  Like our linemen try to pick a gap instead of sliding with OL like a 2-gap scheme calls for.  Like our DBs faceguard out of their zone, leaving their zones wide open, etc...  Seems like the four sub-units (DL, LB, Safeties, and CBs) are running different plays some of the times.

WVU blitzes their asses off and play a ton of man coverage.  Hence my belief that the techniques being taught to the players may not be the techniques required to execute the plays called by GERG.

warlock1944

November 2nd, 2010 at 4:55 PM ^

The 3-3-5 is not the problem, the players are the problem. Our linebackers are a joke and outside of 1 player the d line is as well.  Leaves lots of chances for the secondary. I was a middle line backer so I watch their play. Seems to me like they take a half step the wrong way most times.

Maybe a 7-0-5 would be better /s

 

Scemes don't make plays, players do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mabrsu

November 2nd, 2010 at 4:56 PM ^

I really think RR should bring in a DC from the "Michigan Family". This is not my preference per say, but I really think it may buy him some points with the fan base and media. This would be my strategy, if I was him.

MightAndMainWeCheer

November 2nd, 2010 at 5:08 PM ^

RR should bring in who he thinks is the best defensive coach (whether that means someone who knows the 3-3-5 so that they can jell with the other assistants or someone who has a great reputation for shutting teams down). 

Picking somebody solely based on their Michigan pedigree in lieu of a "better" (however you define it) defensive coordinator is absolutely the wrong move.  If all else is the same, I'm in favor of the Michigan guy but not at the expense of ability/talent.

joeyb

November 2nd, 2010 at 5:03 PM ^

1) The combination of Casteel with our current coaching staff is a proven winner.

2) This would be our second year in the 3-3-5. The only difference is that we would be more aggressive with the play calling and we wouldn't do this multiple BS. We would likely blitz our inexperienced LBs a lot more and make their reads a little easier.

BTW, what formations cause Denard to throw passes behind receivers and to CBs, our RBs to drop balls without getting hit, our coaching staff to put Vincent Smith in on 3rd and short, and our FG kickers to miss FGs? I contend that any defensive formation can do that.

If you don't think that the 3-3-5 in it's true form can stop a power run game, or disrupt a passing game, then you don't understand how it works.

psychomatt

November 2nd, 2010 at 5:59 PM ^

We did not hire RR for his defense. And testing football theory in the Big East is, well, like testing basketball theory in the SEC (excluding KY).

I am sure you can find all the statistics you want to support the person you want if you try hard enough. Just ask RR when he hired Gerg.

This defense has MAJOR problems. Swapping Gerg for Casteel does not drop the final piece of the puzzle in place. Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny also do not exist. Sorry.

cfaller96

November 2nd, 2010 at 5:06 PM ^

1.  RichRod is, for better or worse, committed to running a "base" 3-3-5 scheme*.  Argue all you want about whether this is good or bad, but the bottom line is this is the scheme RichRod wants and it's his call (for now).

2.  He is now on his second defensive coordinator that doesn't know and/or like that scheme.  Results from forcing a DC to run this have been obvious and disastrous.

3.  Because of 1 and 2, the quickest and easiest route to improving this defense therefore lies in getting a guy that knows the 3-3-5 scheme.  Casteel is an obvious choice for that.  There may be other guys out there that know this scheme, but Casteel's history with RichRod and the rest of the defensive staff is a plus because then we know we won't have another Shafer personality conflict.

I don't think anyone should get their hopes up for Casteel.  He said no the last time, and if Uncle Stew is sacked he may very well be a candidate to replace him.  It's an intriguing possibility, but not a likely one IME.

I don't mind being committed to the 3-3-5.  I like the additional flexibility it allows in recruiting.  The problem is that so few defensive coaches know it, that committing to it means you're picking your staff from a very, very small pool of candidates.

Having said all that, a lot of the problems I see on defense are basic things, like tackling and coverage.  A good DC with his own staff could/should improve that regardless of the scheme.  I'd be open to a new guy cleaning house, even though that won't be a panacea.

(*yeah, I know the defense is actually multiple, but from a personnel & recruiting standpoint this is a 3-3-5 defense.  That's the "base.")

mschol17

November 2nd, 2010 at 5:26 PM ^

Bringing in Casteel would mean some continuity on the defense.  It would be another D Coordinator in x number of years, but it would be the same scheme and the same assistants, so hopefully the transition would be smooth.