How bad (good) are our cornberbacks after all?
If you have read the post related to Ace's optimism about our defense, you will see that people are freaked out about out CBs. They are running around with their hairs on fire shouting but our CBs were ranked 400, 500, 600,....
https://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/ace-gives-some-reasons-optimism-about-defense
So, I went back and looked at CBs who committed to 4 teams that are supposed to beat us this year, at least according to those with their hairs on fire. Here are the rankings of the CBs who enrolled in each school since 2016 (using 24/7 rankings). Almost all of those 2016 players are gone and just a few of those 2017 players are still around. Still, I thought it would be instructive to see how UM's CBs rank versus these 4 giants who are going beat us this Fall. There is no clear winner (especially in recent years. UM did not have any CBs in 2021 class). OSU had the best class this year, but I am not if those kids will play much this year. OSU's last two classes sucked. Wisc is Wisc and PSU has done relatively well. Washington had two good classes in 2017 and 2018, but many of them are gone. So, relax. Good coaching will be the difference.
August 21st, 2021 at 3:28 PM ^
Did anyone tell MSU these results last year? I am with you on the coaching upgrade. Last year was a mess so lets see a defensive breakout like Harbaughs offense broke out year 1. Attitude can fix a lot.
August 21st, 2021 at 5:34 PM ^
But Michigan did have a good CB coach. It's the safeties coach that was gone. Having said that, Gray's problem against MSU seemed as mental as anything, and he got better. But he got better from the lowest of bars. I can't make heads or tails out of the random number generator in the OP though.
Steve Sharik had a good post about how Zordich taught them an NFL style of footwork that he thinks is harder. Does anyone know what they'd be learning under Clink?
August 21st, 2021 at 5:54 PM ^
As I noted below, there is very little evidence that Zordich could do more than coach up highly rated 4 stars. There is significant evidence that Clinkscale can.
August 21st, 2021 at 3:32 PM ^
I don’t really care I just support the team and love watching football. Win or lose I still spend my fall weekends watching my beloved winged helmets. Look forward to next year as soon as the previous one ends
August 22nd, 2021 at 6:58 AM ^
I do too. I also have a great preference for young men playing smart, hard and to their potential. And I have a rather strong disdain for being clearly out-coached and players playing without heart.
August 22nd, 2021 at 12:08 PM ^
I like the cut of drjaws' jib! I'm with you, drjaws.
August 21st, 2021 at 4:22 PM ^
Is she married? My kind of girl.
August 21st, 2021 at 6:16 PM ^
....are you sure that is a she???
August 21st, 2021 at 8:28 PM ^
Mellissa Cardone.
August 22nd, 2021 at 8:03 PM ^
Run like hell if you meet that kind of crazy.
August 21st, 2021 at 5:42 PM ^
Hold me. I feel threat—end.
August 21st, 2021 at 3:41 PM ^
Yes.
August 21st, 2021 at 4:01 PM ^
My biggest reason for hope (aside from the fact that I think Gemon Green is a future draft pick) is that Clinkscale has a track record of getting the absolutely most out of 3-star guys who are going against the murderous WRs of the SEC. So we at least probably have the right coach for the job
August 21st, 2021 at 9:41 PM ^
Clinkscale gives me hope as well. He has proven to be a very good coach with less than elite talent.
If these guys can pick up on what he's teaching them quickly then there's a good chance the CB's are not an abject disaster this year. If they can just be competent I think this could be an 8-9 win team.
August 21st, 2021 at 4:10 PM ^
Ja'Den McBurrows was the CB in the 2021 class.
August 21st, 2021 at 4:37 PM ^
You are right. Missed him. Ranked 554.
August 21st, 2021 at 4:10 PM ^
"Good coaching will be the difference."
Thats what most of us are afraid of .
August 21st, 2021 at 4:23 PM ^
Most? Did you conduct a poll to determine the fanbase's belief in Clinkscale?
But I will say it sure is a vocal group, whatever its size.
August 21st, 2021 at 4:27 PM ^
Yes , I did . Did you not get yours ?
August 21st, 2021 at 4:40 PM ^
Nope.
August 21st, 2021 at 4:19 PM ^
Are you talking about starting CBs, or the whole core? Or something else?
August 21st, 2021 at 4:40 PM ^
All the players who were classified as CB when they enrolled. Too lazy to make all the adjustments (e.g., WRs who converted to CBs or vice versa).
August 21st, 2021 at 4:25 PM ^
They can’t be worse than last year…I hope.?
August 21st, 2021 at 4:29 PM ^
I like Clinkscale a lot but Zordich could coach too. He just couldn't recruit.
You can't teach speed and Gray runs a 4.8 40. I think if anything is disappointing it's that Seldon and Darion Green-Warren haven't challenged more. Seldon in particular, although he's undersized, he has a ton of talent and heart.
Clinkscale said the secondary could look very different at the end of the year. That said, I don't think Will Johnson and Kody Jones can get here fast enough.
August 21st, 2021 at 4:59 PM ^
I’ve heard the only important statistic for corner backs is how fast they run in a straight line for a very specific distance equal to 2/5 of a football field
August 21st, 2021 at 5:36 PM ^
Give me a more important statistic instead.
August 21st, 2021 at 5:44 PM ^
No one is saying that. We’re saying speed can’t be a weakness at CB.
FWIW, sarcastically mocking imbecilic strawmen you set up yourself doesn’t make you look smart, especially around here. It instead indicates you’re not arguing in good faith because you can’t. The debate is taking place at a level beyond your comprehension. That’s an embarrassing position to be in.
Which is ironic, because we’re talking about how important it is to be able to keep up.
August 21st, 2021 at 8:32 PM ^
Speed isn’t a weakness at CB. Play recognition, acceleration, ability to start and stop, hip movement, tackling, and strength are all more important than 40 yard dash time. That’s my point. Saying speed is a weakness and then pointing to a straight line speed test is ridiculous. Our CBs, Gray in particular, are going to succeed because of the position our coaches put them in (playing more zone, not putting them on an island 100% of the time without deviation, etc…), not because their 40 time is 4.8 instead of 4.4. A 4.8 forty time isn’t even that slow in college, so I’m not sure why that would be a “weakness.”
August 21st, 2021 at 10:01 PM ^
A 4.8 forty isnt that slow …cumong man. You cant be serious
August 21st, 2021 at 6:53 PM ^
Do you have a Ted talk to teach me about this statistic?
August 21st, 2021 at 5:04 PM ^
Green-Warren can’t run either. That was his question mark coming out of HS.
The scouting indicated he could become a zone merchant, but there’s a difference between learning basic zone concepts and running a scheme well enough to hold against the inevitable zone-beaters OCs will throw at you. The latter takes time.
August 21st, 2021 at 6:16 PM ^
This is what baffles me the most!
Out of all of our cornerbacks, who can you name that runs under a 4.50 forty? Maybe Seldon? How do you expect them to keep up with great - elite receivers?
August 21st, 2021 at 5:34 PM ^
Zordich’s reputation is based primarily on coaching high 4 stars like David Long, Lavert Hill and Ambry Thomas. There is very limited evidence of him coaching up less naturally gifted players.
August 22nd, 2021 at 7:55 AM ^
As I stated in a previous thread, Brandon Watson and Channing Stribling were not highly rated and were contributors at the position. Both of those guys would’ve started last year.
August 22nd, 2021 at 12:29 PM ^
People on this board frequently ragged on Watson. Then he got drafted and is still in the NFL.
August 21st, 2021 at 4:33 PM ^
I don’t care about the stars; we’ve seen them in action. We know they’re bad.
Gemon is fine, but the thing about most coaches (Michigan’s being a longtime line of notable exceptions) is that they will try to exploit weaknesses. So opponents are gonna roll out formations to get our 3rd corner on the field. Someone worse than Gray on the depth chart.
Expect to see a lot of our dime package. Dey gonna throw at us until our worst CB on the field is no longer a weakness. Against OSU. . . sigh.
August 21st, 2021 at 4:44 PM ^
You do not know if they are bad. You remember them playing poorly last year (small sample). There is a difference.
August 21st, 2021 at 4:59 PM ^
You remember them playing poorly last year
Yes, my takes are based on evidence. What about yours?
August 21st, 2021 at 5:04 PM ^
I see you missed the “small sample” part of that sentence. It is kind of like your “evidence” in that you just pick what suits your argument and ignore anything else
August 21st, 2021 at 5:11 PM ^
No, I didn’t, but the elementary accusation is revealing. I know I could be proven wrong, but despite the limitations of the data, I’ll take an ounce of fact over whatever tonnage of feelingsball this thread has to offer, any day.
August 21st, 2021 at 8:43 PM ^
You came to the conclusion they are bad after 1 shortened Covid season. You think that is evidence of them being poor players. Other people take the actual context of the season into account and say that there isn’t enough evidence to get to that conclusion. That isn’t feelingsball, unless you think last season is indicative of where this team is headed in the future
August 21st, 2021 at 5:30 PM ^
I do not need to provide any evidence. I did not say they were good or bad.
You seem to be soooo sure based on a small sample. Yes, there is a small sample from last year. Is that enough to conclude that they are hopeless and it will be as bad a last year? No.
August 22nd, 2021 at 1:19 AM ^
Did you not see a game last October 31 where a shit QB threw go routes all day long to a freshman WR and torched Michigan?
Michigan knew what was coming and still couldn't defend it.
Both players which by the way are no longer with that team.
Listen, you made a post, people are responding, doubling down on your original bad take isn't going to change minds.
August 21st, 2021 at 5:26 PM ^
Exactly what I was going to say. Stars are irrelevant. The proof is in the proverbial pudding. They're bad. Gray has been terrible for 2 years. Green got burned a lot last year.
August 21st, 2021 at 5:44 PM ^
Um if they do this, Daxton Hill can cover them.
August 21st, 2021 at 5:51 PM ^
Look at the career trajectory of J.T. Floyd. The opinion after 2010 is that he was a complete disaster. In 2011:, he turned out to be our top cornerback. Not all big ten caliber, but good enough to be part of a 16th ranked defense. Players can improve. Further, our third cornerback very well may end up actually being our best cornerback if Dax plays and we pull in Moten at safety. Finally, it is over three months til Ohio State. It is entirely possible that someone else steps up by then.
There are no certainties, but it is not crazy to believe that Green who was a first year starter improves. Gray, who was basically a first year starter improves (and gets passed by someone better) and that a third safety steps up so that Dax can be a third corner.
Why not wait for the actual evidence two Saturday’s from now rather than assuming the worst?
August 21st, 2021 at 11:43 PM ^
A lot of people seem convinced it’s impossible that young men in their late teens will improve their skills and physical abilities by the time they’re in their early twenties.
August 21st, 2021 at 6:13 PM ^
Hear much talk about the talent of Gemon here. Interesting that his twin doesn’t even rate a mention and can’t see the field when they should be genetic clones.
August 21st, 2021 at 9:29 PM ^
German tore an ACL in high school.