He has always been here: Tressel Ed.

Chris Creighton or Jim Mcelwain are both more qualified, by all accounts neither are getting a look.  

Carr inherited the Woodson and the defense that formed the 1997 national champions.  MSU doesn't have a division champion defense on campus in any form.

Let them suffer in peace. Yes, they need to clean out.  Izzo included.

5-7 is awfully optimistic.

Giving them wins against NW, Indiana and Maryland is generous. This could be a 9 or 10 loss team, barring someone like Theo Day blowing up. 

The only games I see them winning are Rutgers, Northwestern, and Toledo.  NW and Toledo are not as easy pickings as one would think.

Honestly I could see Rutgers beating them, especially since the game is late in the season and Rutgers’ new staff may end up improving the team over the course of the season. 

Toledo beat BYU last year.  The only game on that schedule that I think is almost impossible for MSU to lose is Rutgers.  I don't think it's likely at all that they go 1-11, but it's still more likely than 6-6.

Maryland's recruiting class was ranked higher than Sparty's again.  Any I doubt MSU will have anything left in the tank after playing Miami, Iowa, Michigan and OSU.  They better hope they beat Toledo and Northwestern or else they'd be lucky to have a three-win season.

They will lose to NW and Indiana. The coin-toss is the Maryland game, which I'm leaning Maryland right now.

2-10 - Toledo and Rutgers are their only wins.

Yep. I posted this yesterday is another thread and stated I was having trouble finding three wins for MSU this year.

Even 5-7 is being a tad generous for them next year, and I'm not saying that out of homerism. The entire roster is a disaster, and now that their fearless leader is gone, you have to wonder what kind of adverse impact (mentally) that will have on the team. I doubt Tressel can motivate those guys like Dantonio could. 

Northwestern is bad, sure, but they've still had MSU's number for the last several years. I want to say that before last season, Northwestern had beaten them 3-4 straight times. Toledo they'll probably beat, but Indiana I think will beat them. Indiana really started coming on last year, and if Penix is as good as Ramsey next year, if not better, they could be looking at another good season. Rutgers and Maryland are probably toss-ups at this point, but Schiano is a good coach and could have Rutgers rounding to form by the end of the season, so I wouldn't be surprised if Rutgers steals that one. 

I could see anywhere from 2-10 to 4-8 next year, maybe 5-7 if things break the right way. If they want to be bowl eligible, their defense is going to have to play lights out, as I don't think their offense is going to scare anyone. 

Pretty fucking generous

I agree with you brutus. At one point during the RR era, I actually envied the cohesiveness between Hollis, the dwarf, and shamtonio. Alas, all three have been exposed for their true nature, and only one remains - though I think Juwan probably runs the dwarf after a couple more years. If we've learned one thing about sharty, it is that they are blinded by winning which keeps people in place far too long. And I'm okay watching the cars pile into each other. Pass the popcorn!

The thing about the program is as well as they had done under Dantonio they never started generating top program support from boosters and the fan base.  TV ratings didn't come other than the general bigten fanbase.  We sucked in the RR era and the last year and a half of the Hoke era and was still generating far more revenue and tv ratings.  Hollis and Dantonio did work well but they never really upgraded their recruiting.  And when Hoke came in he took most of the state recruiting back and then when Harbaugh walked in dominated in state recruiting for most all the recruits they wanted.  All that in the midst of their best run in football in essentially fifty years and our worst in fifty years. 

They have money and support, just not at a top twenty level of cf.  All the fan support and what not that was being generated will have to be rebuilt again.  This setback is disaster for that program. 

I have to disagree with you--look at Wisconsin. Prior to Barry Alvarez, they just hadn't had a lot of football success. When I moved to Madison in the late eighties, everyone was nostalgic about their last Rose Bowl trip in the early sixties. The late Dave McClain had made them into a marginal bowl team (although I mostly remember McClain fondly because he had Earle Bruce's number).

Nonetheless, Alvarez had them in three Rose Bowls and consistently put them in bowls. They've managed to maintain that even through some of the weird turnover they've had in the past few years (Bielema going to Arkansas and then Gary Anderson leaving after just a couple of years). Yet they have a system and they do a good job of developing players within that system.

They have an advantage in that they're the only big-time football program in the state, but it's a small state. They're also in the B1G West, but not until relatively recently.

Nonetheless, I think a competent coach--like Dantonio until the last couple of years, as fucking awful a human being as that guy is--could get MSU to be a consistent low-tier bowl team which can occasionally do better when OSU, Penn State or Michigan are down.

Are they going to get a competent coach, though? It's not looking good at the moment.

t it will take several coaching changes before they find the right guy again. 

I'm going to disagree with you on this one, if they make the correct hire right now:  Me.  I have no background in coaching, no ties to MSU, didn't play college football, barely played Madden.  Pros:  No buyout, available, willing to take the job, cost less than Fickell, ready and able to shitcan anyone connected with the program that has even the slightest bit of mud attached to them.

Sure, we'll probably go 1-11, but that's a transition cost.  By year four we should be back to MSU's proper place in the B1G pecking order.

C'mon Bill Beekman, give me a call.