FWIW, LSU fans' take on Les Miles' character
For all of the UM fans who are writing off Les Miles because of the OTL story, you should at least take 5 minutes of your time to do your own homework. Below is a link to a thread on TigerDroppings. It discusses Miles' character. Put simply, his players love him and nearly everyone describes him as honest. They are split on his coaching abilities but not his character.
Also, I have spent much of the past week reading threads on their site. This general outline of Miles -- great guy but maybe just a mediocre game day coach -- runs through many threads.
http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/messagetopic.asp?p=23804053
January 9th, 2011 at 9:24 PM ^
Bodes well. I had always thought he was a great coach with character issues. I mean, win the national championship and LSU fans think he's a bad game day coach?
January 9th, 2011 at 10:06 PM ^
thought 10 years ago. Anyone can win here..the school recruits itself. Some actually think Les wont be as good here because he won't have the LSU brand name to recruit kids with.
Anyways, the best line I seen on that board was a comment about the M plane in BR airport.
"is Mrs. Moeller on the plane? We may be in trouble"
January 9th, 2011 at 10:12 PM ^
LSU had taken a long sabattical from fb and was merely a "sometimes threat" to conference supremacy since the early '70s until Saban re-established what McLennan(?) had established in the 60s and 70s. It didn't simply recruit itself until Saban was hired and walked away and Les was able to carry on.
Just being historically accurate. No offense intended toward author of previous post
January 9th, 2011 at 10:33 PM ^
I don't agree with any of that..I simply was relalying what I got from reading the LSU boards.
Anyone who thinks UofM could not draw equal or better recruits with the same recruiters is nuts IMO
January 9th, 2011 at 9:25 PM ^
I love that we should be cool to hire Miles despite the fact that he may not be a good coach.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:36 PM ^
I did not say he was a good coach. And the LSU fan base is clearly split on it. Many think LSU gets good talent and Miles wins despite his incompetence. Others think he is a good coach who does not get enough credit for LSU's success because of his quirkiness (LSU was pretty bad for a long time before Saban/Miles).
I just think before people go around trashing his character based on an ESPN report (the media is always honest and accurate with no agenda, right?), they might want to find out what the LSU fans think of him.
Edit: I found these comments particularly interesting:
Les is a good man, and basically a clone of his mentor Bo. I think what you get with Miles is what you would've had with Bo. Good-hearted, caring, and a father figure. I don't know if you'll win an NC under Miles, but he'll keep you in the hunt for Big Ten titles and always make the UM-tOSU game a real rivalry game.
I've got some concerns about the coaching ability of Les Miles.
But Les Miles is one of the best men I've ever had the pleasure of meeting. He is, WITHOUT QUESTION, a family man who values honesty, integrity, and loyalty. He has done nothing but show his true stirling character throughout his time in Baton Rouge. The OTL piece was an absolute witch hunt, and it's an embarrassment to journalism that they chose Les Miles to villify in that piece.
Like I said, I'm not Les Miles' biggest fan. But he is a hell of a man, and after Katrina and all the years since, I'd stick my neck out for him any day of the week.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:37 PM ^
62-17, a national championship, done well at two different schools, SIX friggin' years into it at LSU.
at some point you have to concede the guy knows what he is doing. Luck is one thing: axe larry Coker or Danny Ford. Skill, hard work, and BALLZ are other things that set people like Miles apart.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:59 PM ^
that HaRRd Edge week is now "Les is More" week?
Other Suggestions welcome.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:29 PM ^
You could argue that this blog's opinion of RR relative to outsider's opinions are the exact same.
Doesn't mean either is right...
January 9th, 2011 at 9:30 PM ^
That is an interesting comparison. Is it possible that people who are more involved fans (the kind of people that would visit blogs) are more loyal to their coach?
January 9th, 2011 at 9:31 PM ^
This is exactly correct. Hard to say who's right.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:31 PM ^
:) I'll say it again: If he is a "mediocre" game day coach, I'd love to see the guy they think is a GREAT game-day coach.
Miles' approach sure beats the heck out of "Hey, it's 4th and two and EVRYTHING is on the line, so let me bore everyone to sleep by punting".
I've often wondered if he isn't a bit antagonistic: "Heck, these people don;t like me. maybe I'll do something even crazier today, so they can fire me and I can finally get that michigan job"
Then it backfires and he wins another eleven games, they love him, the AD gives him a 43 million dollar raise and Michigan hires Harry belafonte instead.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:34 PM ^
the issue with Miles isn't "he goes for it too much on 4th downs." Pretty much everyone who comments on this site agrees with his decision to go for it a ton on 4th downs.
It's more "he calls for a spike when there's no time left on the clock" and "he never, ever seems to have a time out left at the end of the game when he needs one" and "he tried to call a time out after an interception."
There are a lot of points in Miles' favor, but the man does some inexplicable things during games.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:41 PM ^
But you cite two examples which might put his record at 64-15 as opposed to a horrendous 62-17. I'll take that.
Just last week, in fact, I mistook a bar of soap for a Milky Way and have been belching bubbles ever since.
It happens to the best of us.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:32 PM ^
I don't care if he's a great guy, gives to charity or whatever. Michigan is on probation, we can't afford to have a guy who, despite his Jesus like morality, will flirt with NCAA rules. It's not so much about morality/character, it's about the NCAA knocking on LSU's door right now.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:33 PM ^
I actually think Miles would do a good job,I can't get my mind off the banner at the top of the page, I want Charlie Manson picture in there.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:01 PM ^
33.3333 (repeating, of course) . . .
January 9th, 2011 at 10:31 PM ^
Actually I'm hereby stating my case that Leeroy Jenkins should be our head coach. He has tenacity. His offense is by no means conservative with that kind of 'go for it' attitude this program has been lacking. The defense is questionable but all around I feel he should be in the discussion.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:34 PM ^
And he has chicken!
January 10th, 2011 at 12:19 AM ^
+1 if possible....LEEEEROOYYYY AHHHJENKINNNNSSSSS
January 9th, 2011 at 9:34 PM ^
It's quite interesting reading that they view the OTL video people are posting here as Gospel about Les Miles' character in roughly the same way as the Michigan fanbase views the Freep pieces about Rich Rodriguez.
And I would agree with the OP, the widespread opinion on Les Miles being a good guy and a father figure for his players seems to run throughout Tiger Droppings (still, lol every time), even when people are blasting clock management issues.
Are we jumping to conclusions here?
January 9th, 2011 at 9:47 PM ^
Especially given the fact that ESPN is generally greeted with "lolcats" on this board. Yet when there's a hatchet job that suits people's interests, it is presented as incontrovertible fact.
Interesting to hear their perspective on it, for sure.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:52 PM ^
I wouldn't say anyone is hinging their opinion of Les Miles on the OTL piece alone. There are a few other reasons to feel he is unfit to coach at the University of Michigan. That being said, it's been pretty well documented that LSU oversigns players, and quietly forces kids into medical hardships, and grey shirts as a means of fitting under the scholarship limit.
At the present moment, they have 9 more commitments than they have available scholarships. If those numbers hold true (LSU is still recruiting a few top seniors), that means they would have to "remove" 9 players from their roster.
It seems the only way this practice is defensible is if your school does it, or you desprately want to hire a coach from a school that does it. In other words, it's disgusting and indefensible.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:55 PM ^
Are you sure your math is accurate on this one? For most teams, the exact number of scholarship players is sort of an educated guess, with some former walk-ons getting a free ride for one year and such.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:03 PM ^
They are attempting to get a handle on all of the BCS programs.
As of now they only have a few, but they are keeping a rolling count as commitments move in and juniors/seniors move out.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:33 PM ^
Because a website with the name oversigning.com must be accurate and could not possibly have an agenda.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:47 PM ^
If they aren't accurate it would be pretty easy to prove, so if you want to challenge the numbers instead of spuriously casting doubt on them, which adds no value, why not take 5 minutes and count.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:54 PM ^
No one on this website (not even Brian or Tim or TomVH) can tell you exactly how many scholarships UM has available or exactly how many players we can sign in the upcoming class, but you can do so for LSU? OK. Keep up the good work.
January 9th, 2011 at 11:00 PM ^
Also, did you watch the video?
January 9th, 2011 at 11:12 PM ^
This isn't hinging on whether this walkon or that 5th year senior is on scholarship next year. We're talking about LSU being over by 8 (!) players as things stand.
January 9th, 2011 at 11:24 PM ^
... because clearly I am stupid:
- How many players did LSU have on scholarship at the beginning of 2010/1011?
- How many of those players are seniors?
- How many of the seniors will be given a fifth year?
- How many non-seniors will go to the NFL early?
- How many have lost or will lose their scholarships due to off the field problems?
- How many will lose them due to academic ineligibility?
- How many will be transferring elsewhere by their own choice (i.e. family issues, lack of playing time, etc)?
- How many legitimate medical waivers?
- How many of the 2011 verbal commits will actually sign with LSU?
- How many of the 2011 signees will qualify academically at LSU?
Yes, with this info, I should be able to add and subtract to see if LSU is going to exceed 85 scholarships.
January 10th, 2011 at 3:44 AM ^
This is going to turn into a diary. Edit: and it's up.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:49 PM ^
They are a newly formed sort of "watchdog" group, so of course they have an agenda, and what a horrible agenda they have; attempting to expose the schools that oversign, while praising those that don't. There are good agendas, and there are bad agendas. IMHO, this is a good agenda.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think most people find oversigning to be a bad practice. I'd honestly love to hear someone lay out a case for how it is good for student-athletes (particularly those who wanted to stay at the program, but were forced to leave).
If I find this particular website to be misrepresenting facts, then they will lose credibility, and rightfully so, but it's time that someone monitored and documented precisely what is going on with regard to this issue.
January 10th, 2011 at 2:20 AM ^
I'll play devils advocate. Keep in mind this is solely for the sake of argument and I do not agree with or support the practice of oversigning.
Being recruited and signing with a school is basically a business deal. The kid receives a free education in exchange for playing football. Just like I receive a paycheck for providing my company a service. If my service for my company is not up to their standards and they believe they can bring in someone more qualified to do my job would it be wrong?
I understand they are kids but they are being compensated for their performance.
January 10th, 2011 at 3:48 AM ^
This might sound ridiculous, but it's true, NCAA football is tax exempt precisely because it's supposedly not a business. The idea is that the NCAA's educational mission is compelling enough that it shouldn't be taxed. Oversigning does damage to that. And the more college football becomes like a business the less it makes sense that it should have anything to do with college at all.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:48 PM ^
Maybe they formed the site to highlight a destructive practice. Do the math yourself on LSU's scholarships if you don't believe them.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:03 PM ^
No one is hinging their belief on it? Read the "Morally unfit" thread, or the "Les is not more" thread. Or anything M-Wolverine has posted today. The video has been posted or referenced a million times today for people to "educate" themselves about how supposedly terribly nefarious Les Miles is.
Of course, the truth is somewhere in between. Is Les Miles a saint? Absolutely not. But I'm not going to take some ESPN report as definitive proof the guy is the scum of the earth.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:30 PM ^
The video is a short and sweet example of one of the several kids that Les, Saban, and others have forced out for no reason other than they didn't quite live up to the hype.
It is understandable if you don't trust the source because of an aversion to ESPN in general, but OTL tends to have more clout than, "X ESPN reporter says Y will happen, according to annonymous sources."
January 9th, 2011 at 10:47 PM ^
You couldn't check the Freep article's sources yourself when you first read it. The OTL video, on the other hand, provides the kid (appearing very credible) saying that Miles told him everytthing was going well, a letter from LSU dated eleven days prior to that conversation saying that the kid didn't have a scholarship, and a video of Miles telling the press that the kid wasn't on the team anymore b/c he didn't have the "want to." The only way to punch a hole in that fact pattern is to say the kid is lying. Two responses: 1. He seems very credible., 2.. LSU oversigns regularly, so it's hardly a stretch to imagine the story is true (I grant that this is circumstanial evidence for that specific case)...That other poor kid had already enrolled and moved into a dorm when he was forced to move out.
You can't just say, "All the media is wrong." Sometimes they provide facts. Then they're not wrong.
I don't believe people would be looking beyond this if Miles was not (apparently) a candidate for the M job.
Finally, I'm not saying the guy is the scum of the earth or that he's going to hell. I just don't think he's somebody who should be coaching at Michigan. Michigan is supposed to have higher standards than the LSUs of the world.
January 9th, 2011 at 10:47 PM ^
And seem to turn a blind eye when you like someone, but blow things out of proportion when you don't, it might help if you pay attention a little more. Brian has been writing about this for MONTHS. Far before ESPN ran any story. The story video is just an easy link for those who haven't heard (the majority), haven't been paying attention to Brian even though they're posting on his blog, or want to stick their heads in the sand because he's going to be our next coach, like you.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:34 PM ^
What exactly does this solve?
IMHO LSU fans are not exactly the definited of an unbiased source, especially when dealing with the shady aspects of their program.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:40 PM ^
And it was not intended to. This is not theoretical mathematics.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:40 PM ^
And...this could be said about literally every single college football fanbase in the country.
Should we trust ESPN to report without bias?
January 9th, 2011 at 10:00 PM ^
*Newsflash* LSU fans think Les Miles is a pretty cool guy. So, therefore we should ignore all evidence to the contrary, and instead put stock in what the fans have to say because, OMG ESPN SUKS?
-Note, this isn't a direct reply to you, but rather, peeps in general.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:35 PM ^
January 9th, 2011 at 9:58 PM ^
I just hope they are leaux balling the Hat with their counteroffer.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:36 PM ^
True, oversigning runs rampant in the SEC. What sets Miles apart is waiting 'til the last minute with Porter, telling him 2 weeks after he moved into the dorms. Nobody has an explanation or a justification for that. Even the linked article defending him says that was wrong.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:37 PM ^
I'm sure it's largely self justification, but still this makes me very happy. At least it's something on the other side.
January 9th, 2011 at 9:40 PM ^
I don't know the validity of the OTL reports, but it did make Miles look like a shady recruiter along with most of the SEC.
We know that the media can be used to paint people in a negative light. As Michigan fans, these past 3 years we have all seen how damning media can be. Who knows, but that might be the situation with Miles.