Explain Sparty hate to a puzzled outsider
First off- I come in peace
Second, I come in peace (in case you missed the first sentence)
OK
I have lived in Columbus Ohio all my life since 1959. I heard "Go Bucks!" more often than "Good Morning!" (BTW we did have mornings there). So I sort of became a UM fan out of rebellion. I "get" the OSU vs UM hate- both teams have been dominant a long time and knocked each other out of fun stuff a lot.
I do not have as good a sense for what goes on inside Michigan (the State). I sense, from reading these boards, that most of you guys may actually hate MSU more than OSU (I scientifically counted things like "Fuck Sparty!"). I understand CFB state rivalry, but not this one so much.
There are reasons this dislike should NOT be so intense:
1. UM has owned Sparty forever in terms of wins and losses- despite recent losses
2. I would assume there are many more UM fans in the State of Michigan than Sparty fans due to MSU's long track record of mediocrity- so you should outnumber Sparty fans quite a bit and feel like neighbors/coworkers are on your side
3. MSU has a high percentage of players who are from Michigan and that should give anybody from Michigan a sense of satisfaction when they achieve
So what is it? Is it the recent losses only? Was it this intense 15 years ago? Is it the coach? Would a nice guy coach end this dislike? Is it the fans? Are they really different than other fans? Does the fact that ANY team from Michigan is in the playoffs mean nothing?
I believe JH will have us back in the playoffs sooner than later and don't really think about MSU much. So, as an outsider to the state of Michigan, I am curious as to what has happened to make this hate so intense. I understand OSU vs. UM but don't understand why MSU angers so many more given the 3 items I outlined above. What am I missing as an outsider to the state?
thanks ( and I promise not to bring the subject up again)
Go Blue!
December 6th, 2015 at 11:02 AM ^
disgusting town, garbage stadium, win or lose - classless
December 6th, 2015 at 2:25 PM ^
I am enjoying the adjectives.
December 6th, 2015 at 11:02 AM ^
Every serious Sparty I've ever known relishes annoying Michigan fans. I just like them to miserable for sports reasons because that's how obnoxious most of them are.
December 6th, 2015 at 11:03 AM ^
December 6th, 2015 at 11:34 AM ^
December 6th, 2015 at 11:04 AM ^
December 6th, 2015 at 11:16 AM ^
What about the 95% of the fanbase that cant find the school on a map?
And this is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read as someone with 4- year degrees from both schools who is pretty proud of my UM degree.
You're talking trash after a michigan loss, after changing alliances to root against whatever team they're playing, insulting the academics and insisting that youre taking the high road. sure thing.
December 6th, 2015 at 11:29 AM ^
December 6th, 2015 at 11:42 AM ^
meh nevermind i guess i can't change that mentality. agree to disagree. cheers
December 6th, 2015 at 2:24 PM ^
You enjoy trolling.
December 6th, 2015 at 10:48 PM ^
You're the Sparty guy who decided to personally attack people that you've never met, on a message board, that is not a Sparty board. Don't deny you're in attack mode. Your posting history makes it very clear.
In one of your posts you questioned my sanity... and you came here thinking you were going to change the mentality of the board?
That is oh, so sane! Cheers, indeed!
December 7th, 2015 at 12:05 AM ^
December 6th, 2015 at 11:31 AM ^
December 6th, 2015 at 12:36 PM ^
December 6th, 2015 at 12:59 PM ^
Both parents spartans, UM undergrad, MSU medicine. Lover of all mankind.
December 6th, 2015 at 1:37 PM ^
December 6th, 2015 at 2:18 PM ^
Just trying to figure out the hatred like OP.
December 6th, 2015 at 2:44 PM ^
December 6th, 2015 at 10:38 PM ^
for no other reason than to troll this blog.
That is Sparty all the way.
December 6th, 2015 at 11:58 AM ^
especially with a victory over MSU just being 'a loss avoided'. When we beat MSU 12-10 a few years back I was just relieved that MSU fans had to shut up for the next 365 or so days
December 6th, 2015 at 11:05 AM ^
Everyone from their Docuhe coaches right on down to their douche fans. Disrespekted!
December 6th, 2015 at 11:09 AM ^
December 6th, 2015 at 11:11 AM ^
December 6th, 2015 at 11:16 AM ^
December 6th, 2015 at 11:28 AM ^
Ran over and mocked U of M student section...WHILE THEIR OWN TEAMMATE WAS SUFFERING WITH A HIP FRACTURE SEVERAL FEET AWAY! That, to me, encapsulates the institutional classlessness that fuels my personal Sparty hate.
December 6th, 2015 at 11:56 AM ^
December 6th, 2015 at 12:10 PM ^
Wish someone could attend every D'Antonio press conference just to bring up the word "Michigan" so we can see that agonized look on his face. Funny, irritating, and pretty damn telling. Hard pressed to think of one coach who has such an emotional trigger at the mere mention of their chief rival's name.
December 6th, 2015 at 12:46 PM ^
They didn't know he had suffered a fracture/dislocation of the hip. But their man was down in the end zone, right in front of the student section. But yeah, telling that it was the FIRST thing they thought to do.
December 6th, 2015 at 1:26 PM ^
December 6th, 2015 at 8:44 PM ^
They have done a complete 180. They can't be the scrappy underdog anymore, although they'll try to say they are against Clemson. Recruiting is a big deal now, when it used to be "stars don't matter." They've only done just the minimum to get by in alot of games this year. Granted, there's nothing wrong with that. But, they could have losses to Purdue, Rutgers, and OSU. Should have lost to Michigan. Looked bad against WMU, CMU, and Air Force. They'll be quick to tell you they deserved to win those games for some reason or another. They're represented by Jemele Hill on ESPN. Every great player we have had recently, they treat as hot garbage. See: Denard; Peppers.
EDIT: Looks like they're #3 and playing 'Bama. If they read this comment, they'll of course take that as a sign of disrespect that I would just assume MSU was ticketed for the #4 spot and a date with Clemson.
December 6th, 2015 at 11:16 AM ^
I don't know if - at least for me - it's hate so much as astonishment directed at portions of a fanbase (it isn't all of them, of course) that, no matter how well their teams are doing, can't help but feel aggrieved about something and still continues to frame their success relative to Michigan in certain respects rather than develop their own separate standards for success. In some segments of the Spartan fanbase, historical revisionism - to the point where they would have you believe football has only been a varsity sport for five years or so - is fairly common too.
I really don't understand - that they've had basically nothing except success for several years now and that some still choose to act and believe as if it is still, say, the 1980s or 1990s is amazing.
December 6th, 2015 at 11:28 AM ^
so they are sore winners?
December 6th, 2015 at 12:05 PM ^
Like you wouldn't believe...
Being in Ann Arbor after the game this year you would have assumed MSU had won 100-0. So much hooting and hollering, trying to talk shit to old people barely able to walk down the sidewalk, and 3 girls jumped my girlfriend and threw her into moving traffic on Main St after the game just because she commented that they were being ridiculous.
December 6th, 2015 at 11:16 AM ^
..why do Texas fans hate TAMU, why do USC fans hate UCLA etc. should be pretty fucking self-explanatory. Local rivalries are the backbone of sports and 90% of rivalries are in-state rivalries.
With regard to the *relative* hatred vs MSU as opposed to OSU, that's a matter of success. The Michigan-OSU rivalry has been driven by success. Ohio is a neighboring state but so is Indiana yet nobody cares about Indiana or Purdue because those teams aren't relevant in football. Michigan vs OSU hatred is primarily the result of hating your most equal competitor in your region. The team that stands between you and championships. With Michigan down and OSU dominating that series as of late that intensity is bound to fade a little - at least until Michigan regains competitiveness.
MSU is the logical and up-close-and-personal rivalry. One that suffered a tad from MSU's 40 year run of being mediocre but one that was always going to heat up dramatically if MSU became competitive. The fact they did this while Michigan slipped to utter mediocrity was only going to intensify the hatred from Michigan's side. I think the way things have gone it has also created a sense that there can only be one very good football program in Michigan at any given time because of the limited quantity of football talent in the area, especially if OSU is up and controls Ohio recruiting. So it would be necessary to destroy MSU first before being able to go after OSU and every bit of MSU success makes it harder to do that for Michigan.
December 6th, 2015 at 11:31 AM ^
I can tell you that being in- state teams does not always equal a sense of rivalry. OSU fans never pay attention to U of Cincinnati even when it was winning. OSU also has played UC quite a few times but abssolutely no hated exists.
December 6th, 2015 at 12:02 PM ^
Well obviously not. They're not in a major conference or a conference rival!
We don't hate Western or Central Michigan. There is no equivalent of UM-MSU within the state of Ohio because Ohio has only one major football program/school. Michigan has two. Uncomparable to Cincy
December 6th, 2015 at 12:08 PM ^
If they ever got to the Big Ten, it could someday be a different story. Remember Gordon Gee's remark about how someone would have to shoot Gene Smith before Smith would let UC in the Big Ten? It's because they're aware that the surest way to elevate a potential rival to your level is to let them in your conference.
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December 6th, 2015 at 12:17 PM ^
because OSU is the only school that Ohio as a state identifies with, the other schools only have very local and student/alum appeal. Michigan is split and Michigan fans might be a majority but it's a *slim* one and the last few years MSU fans would have become far more visible due to their success.
Michigan has the classic "flagship/'public ivy' with emphasis on high-level science and scholarship vs land grant school with traditional emphasis on engineering/agriculture" dynamic that you also have in Texas and a couple of other states. Those rivalries mirror the Michigan/MSU rivalry pretty closely.
MSU as a result tends to get a lot more students from local high schools while Michigan tends to pull in far more out-of-state overachievers. That gives MSU as a school a more local, more Midwestern vibe. Michigan has plenty of kids with no special ties to Michigan who after graduation reliably head back East or to major metropolitan areas like Chicago or LA.
MSU grads are more likely to be local kids who then stick around in the Detroit Metro, Grand Rapids etc. and for example I wouldn't be shocked if far more MSU grads than Michigan grads worked in Detroit media outlets.
MSU as a school drawing from a wider spectrum of Michigan's middle-class thus also has more of a 'that guy in high school who drove a ProAm and was kind of a douchebag' element whereas Michigan drawing in overachievers has a bigger nerdy element.
Michigan 'fans' of course don't equal Michigan students and Michigan's fan community extends well beyond the alum base. But this dynamic of 'arrogant/smart Michigan vs redneck/down-to-earth MSU" plays out in the vibe of the fanbases even though there's of course some MSU fans who are doctors or laywers and also Michigan fan car workers or bus drivers. And for above mentioned reason, your typical MSU dude in a place like Roseville or Howell may encounter a lot more Michigan fans who went to other local schools like EMU, Wayne State or Oakland U (schools that MSU grads would deem inferior to their own) than Michigan alumni, hence their particular hatred for Michigan fans who didn't go to Michigan.
December 6th, 2015 at 11:55 AM ^
Besides getting the best players from MI and a good dose of OSU-caliber players from OH, Michigan also used to get excellent recruits here and there from California, Louisiana and Texas. This was the formula for success for years. All of that has dried up, partly because of Michigan's struggles but also because the local schools in those areas are real alternatives. Add a strong MSU to a Midwest recruiting environment that includes OSU fencing off Ohio plus ND taking their share, and it's tough out there.
This is why Harbaugh's strategy of looking far and wide for talent is so wise. Michigan simply has to.
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December 6th, 2015 at 11:17 AM ^
December 6th, 2015 at 11:17 AM ^
For so many years they blamed (us) Michigan for not getting national respect. I have no idea why, but that's ALL they had. Now that they have a good coach and are winning on a consistent basis, I think most of them taunt Michigan fans just to try getting under our skin and they really don't care about anything else. It's like that don't know how to win because they have never been there before - but they have literally never been there before (in football). They know that they have taken advantage of beating us during our worst period of football in our last 50 years as a program, but they don't realize that everybody else has too. They don't realize that if it wasn't going to happen now, it was never going to happen.
I say let them have their fun. If they want to celebrate by taunting us instead of celebrating what they have achieved - that's their right. I grew up in the state so it seems like half my family and friends are MSU fans. I'm glad they are happy and I'm even happier that it's not Ohio State celebrating. That would just crush my soul. Seeing MSU win doesn't have that effect on me because I think we all know that MSU will only be good as long as Dantonio is coach there.
December 6th, 2015 at 11:18 AM ^
The best in-state kids should go to Michigan. If they don't then they no longer matter to me.
It makes sense to me that THEY should hate US. Not too sure about the reverse. Half the college bound kids from my high school went there including many of my friends. 100% of the pretty girls went there.
I don't hate Sparty at all. They just finally found a coach that wins there. Even Saban had a hard time with that program. This will pass and we will dominate again. When Dantonio leaves there it will be like Al McGuire leaving Marquette.
December 6th, 2015 at 11:36 AM ^
I still hear this from time to time but it doesn't match the vibe at all. I still remember the MSU threads from like 10 years ago and how you'd find about half the Michigan forum saying they'll be rooting for MSU in the bowl or something and how they have MSU friends and family and are okay with them doing well.
Whether that was genuine sentiment or well-calculated condescension (which is how most MSU fans took it at the time) is open for debate. But ever since 2008 that's started to slowly disappear and now we're at a point where MSU is easily more hated than OSU.
I know there's people who still deny this, perhaps to deny their MSU fan friends the satisfaction of knowing that they got to us, that the arrogant Michigan fans get a taste of their own medicine. But it's all about how people feel and I can tell you that I (and I think this is a shared sentiment with the majority of Michigan fans) utterly *despise* MSU right now.
If we beat them 8 out of the next 9 times or something, maybe that will fade. Maybe.
December 6th, 2015 at 1:12 PM ^
I don't think you're giving state enough credit. When I say something about Michigan on my Facebook page, and a half-dozen Spartans come to my page to say that Brady Hoke is fat, Brady Hoke ate my team, my team is lousy, etc., that's not about me. That's not about my feelings, that's about the shitty attitude of people who are actually my friends, who wouldn't ever say anything else to intentionally insult me, and normally wouldn't call people fat. And this happens still, even if I'm not saying anything about MSU, which I usually don't. I had a thing about OSU up the other day and along came Sparty to let me know that "Harbitch" is hated everywhere. Why?
It doesn't make me hate them, it just made me stop wanting them to win. But when people do hate them, I totally understand. I'm pretty sure the trolling OP understands as well.
December 6th, 2015 at 11:22 AM ^
MSU wins a Cotton Bowl and they have to put the Michigan score on the ring
December 6th, 2015 at 11:45 AM ^
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December 6th, 2015 at 11:23 AM ^
And we all hate the color green, especially Notre Dame green.
December 6th, 2015 at 11:38 AM ^
No football team with green looks very good on a green field- I will admit, Only the NYJets have figure out that you have to fancy it up with optical patterns to make it halfway interesting on a green field.
December 6th, 2015 at 11:25 AM ^
They are NOT
We are MICHIGAN
OSU is not
It's pretty simple
December 6th, 2015 at 11:26 AM ^