...is another man's floor.
Mike Lantry, 1972
...is another man's floor.
Hoke has shown to be as clueless or worse than Rich Rod. That 11-2 record? Was done with RR's players. Still regressing, no improvement, and his team is a direct reflection of him--laid-back, disinterested, talks good in the media but doesn't produce on gamedays. To me, it seems Mattison is the only person holding this together. I fear Hoke has lost the faith of his players and we are treading on dangerous ground here. Oh, someone mentioned Dantonio going 6-7 in his third year? Difference is his teams showed improvement in each area from year to year. But I not trying to argue, these are just MY opinions. But I feel that this is another Amaker situation--after we get blown out in Columbus next year, we'll be doing the same coaching search we should be doing this December. Top notch programs don't accept mediocrity--however we seem to accept it with no problem.
BTW, anyone remember early this season when MSU couldn't score? Now look at them. remember when our offense looked unstoppable earlier this year? Now look at us...dantonio knows how to improve and adjust...maybe Hoke just has the wrong assistants...sheesh
It was more like half Lloyd, half RR. Molk, RVB, Martin, Woolfolk, Hemingway, Huyge, Koger, and Demens were Lloyd's guys. Denard, Fitz, Roundtree, Lewan, Schofield, Omameh, Ryan, Morgan, and Roh were RR. Point is, they got coached up and played at a much higher level, by Hoke's staff, than they showed under Rod. Simple as. Tired of that horeshit 'with RR's players' being thrown around.
I'm pretty good friends with quite a few of our players and many of them seem to have little faith in Hoke, and to be honest, I never have seen much in the way of reverance for the man on their part, especially after the Nebraska loss. Just my observation. I'll just sprinkle that little nugget into you guys' debate. Please continue
Finally some realism. Granted I'm not an insider but what has Hoke done to make us think any of his players have faith in him? I'm clearly in the minority here but I think Brandon knows this and will can Hoke after this weekends loss. We gotta do something. Dantonio and Meyer are the class of the big ten. We are currently a joke.
Yeah, you go ahead and sprinkle those unsubstantiated rumors. You're just another anonymous poster on a message board with no credibility.
RR players like Junior Hemmingway, Mary Huyge, Kevin Koger, Daryl Stonum, Ryan Van Bergan, Mike Nartin, David Molk, Kenny Demens, Troy Woolfolk...hell, even Will Heininger did OK.
Yes, a lot of key guys were from Rich, no doubt. But a lot were recruited by Lloyd, too.
Do you really think RR would have gone 11-2 with that team? I did and do like him, but I don't think the answer is yes.
Keep it real...RR was set up to fail from the jump. Granted he was stubborn and didn't adjust to the players he had here, but Carr was completely unsupportive and darn near sabotaged him. That being said, RR statred from the ground up. Hoke contrarily came in to a upperclassmen laden team that simply need to defensive coaching. That was RR's team AND his players. Lastly, you think Hoke could beat Oregon this year? RR did...
Yes, Coach Rod coached Arizona to a win over Oregon. Good for them. Great for him. He would not have led Michigan to a win over Oregon. Lloyd, the boogeyman, the Easter bunny, the alums, the Illuminati, and the Mafia would have teamed up to sabotage him.
Legitimate: 1)he has a better record than RR 2) his recruiting is still strong 3) changing coaches every three years hurts the program and should be avoided if possible
Not legitimate but still a factor: he is a Michigan man who's approach to the game fits the way many feel Michigan should play football. Most of those with power in the program fall into this camp which also helps his cause
This Michigan man thing is so overrated. Just get a coach who has a clue and wins. People take that Michigan man thing out of context--Bo meant it to say that only a coach who is committed to Michigan will coach us. THATS a MICHIGAN MAN! We don't have to have a coach who has Michigan roots or ties.
I like Hoke--great guy. But I have absolutely NO faith in his abilities. The proff right now is in the pudding, and quite frankly the pudding is no good right now.
I think you have to wait a year or two as frustrating as that seems now.
Offensive pudding tastes like shit.
The defensive ice cream is good. Special teams flan is good. Recruiting mousse is excellent. Clean program tiramisu is good. Hoke is a good coach/pastry chef. He's just got some shitty pudding.
Wins. And. Losses.
OSU can lay a 70 spot on us. I'm thinking the offense will be held to 3 FGs!
He's my favorite coach of all time, regardless of all the shady infractions. He would keep me endlessly entertained and that's what's important.
I took this down initially because I was afraid of another repeat of about 20 other threads, but it seems innocous enough. Many apologies to the OP.
I've said before that this AD and this staff would make strategic changes before they made wholesale ones - that just seems to be how they would operate if anything happened. It is pretty much a foregone conclusion that Hoke is the head coach next year, so the lot calling for his head can be quiet at this point - the same applies to the defensive staff too, I would think. On the other side of the ball, it seems like the picture may be more murky but obviously no one knows for certain.
I tend to agree and consider this the coordinator/assistant year, and next year will be the grand reckoning for Hoke.
That being said, if this week ends up a total dumpster fire all the way around, something really embarrassing, a total regression to the tune of complete disaster on both sides of the ball... If morale seems low, the stadium revolts, donors are openly pissed... Who knows? What would it take for DB's hand to be completely forced?
The only thing I hope is that if a decision needs to be made, we don't get a replay of the last time. Don't wait until the bowl game. Don't leave this team in the lurch, don't make this a speculative story for all of December going into the crappy bowl game, give everyone a chance to pick up a new job if they're left in that position, etc.
I'm sure most people here saw the thing about John Harbaugh (and I imagine ESPN probably started snooping around the idea after it blew up on Twitter). As unlikely as it is, if he did want to leave the NFL (the Ravens are in last place, his Super Bowl team has been dismantled, or at least gutted, he's proven himself a winner, etc) and he made it known that he was available, isn't it difficult to think Brandon wouldn't jump at the chance?
Of course, it's all speculative and highly unlikely. But, Brandon's not dumb. He knows that if he fires Hoke he needs to replace him with a huge name. That goes for next year as well (when we probably go 8-4 again).
Wouldn't it be considered a step down and an admission of failure by such a young coach to go from a Super Bowl team to a college team? Wouldn't he want to bring his current team back to where it was last season before he would head to college?
Both Saban and Carroll have stepped down from NFL jobs. They both found success and the college level. Carroll is doing well in Seattle. John Harbaugh has already won a super bowl so if he were to want a college job I don't think it should be seen as a step backwards--maybe he just wants something different.
Weren't they both in Rick Pitino situations, where they went to the pros and didn't do that well?
He's already proven himself a champion. Could be a lifestyle choice. He grew up in Ann Arbor.
I disagree. College coaches are also GMs. Recruiting, etc. And the hours they put in on actual football is the same. And fans are just as stupid in both sports.
That rumor began on Chatsports, and as a rule, -1,000,000% credibility is given to anything which originates on Chatsports. It may very well be the case that the inspiration for this thread has zero legs, but ESPN is not on the list of persona non grata, if you will.
For -1m% credibility quote.
I wasn't aware that was where the high school kid writes.
John actually contacted DB about the job! May be he misses Mattison?
The only way Hoke may save his job is to do the impossible. Beat OSU!
Who would want an old Les Miles who is going to retire relatively soon? That would be an incredibly stupid hire.
Miles just turned 60 two weeks ago. Thinking very hypothetically, if he could put in five or six really solid years at Michigan, get an obvious successor in place, get some stability going, and retire well before he's 70, it's not a terribly far-fetched idea.
That said, it will never happen. But it won't be age that gets in the way.
Hoke's not getting fired this year, but he's done near irreparable damage to his image. He's lost the confidence of most of the fan base. He's lost his sales pitch of progress, rebuilding, and return to glory. He'll begin next on the short list of hot-seat coaches. Enjoy 2014 Michigan football!
Not to mention they have ruined DG and he is not the same anymore, hopefully his confidence comes back next year but this year he is done IMO
We don't know if he was ever that great to begin with. Sample size last year was too small but the one consistent thing from last year to this is he turns the ball over too much and makes some poor decisions. Not saying he can't be good and I agree his confidence is low but who knows what he would've been with whoever at OC.
TO say that he has done "near irreparable" damage is an over statement.He has tarnished his image, but if he gets UM back to where it should be in 2014 all the damage from this year will disappear.
I meant that in the sense that he will never repair his image to what it was going into the season. It was inevitable that the Hoke-poops-gold era would end, but I never imagined the pendalum could swing so far so soon.
National Title? NATIONAL TITLE?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Let's see Michigan beat Akron and UConn by more than one score before we even mention a National Title! God damn some of you are still living in the past. This is not a 1A program anymore. Look at the record against the powers in the lowly B1G the past 6 years! Maybe we should get so much of a sniff at the B1G Championship before mentioning a National Title.
Unless Hoke finds his Narduzzi on offense, that isn't going to happen. Next years schedule is not overwhelming, but you can feel pretty confident in at least 3 losses (@MSU, @ND, @OSU). I could see them losing to Penn State. I sure wouldn't feel good about a 3 or 4 loss season. If they lose more than that, he would most certainly need to be replaced. The rest of the schedule is horribly weak.
Hopefully, Hoke can keep the verbals!
IMO at this point anyone will be better than Al.. Bring in a new upcoming OC coach who is hungry to succeed and let him do his thing. As far as Les coming to UofM i doubt that will happen, he is getting too old and i can only see him be around for a couple more years then retire..
- Entire coaching staff returns. Plausible.
- Entire coaching staff is fired. Not likely.
- Borges is fired, Hoke and Mattison are retained. Plausible.
- Hoke and Borges are fired, Mattison is promoted to Head Coach. Even less likely than #2, above, but I would love it.
The Mad Hatter is probably our best option if #2 occurs, even if Lloyd objects.
Approximately zero percent chance Mattison becomes the head coach in any other scenario than an interim basis if Brady is let go next Monday.
In other words, will never happen.
This was an article by Chantel Jennings on ESPN. She in no way said UM will fire Hoke or that Borges is being rumored to be fired either. All she said was that Hoke will be on the hot seat next year and that Borges is on the hot seat now. The other coaches she's referencing are only what would happen IF Hoke is fired...not that he will be. It's all based on the fan base complaining...that is all. We already know this because we are on here complaining ad nauseum. Nothing will happen to Hoke this year. We can only hope Borges gets canned, but the article is not saying he will, just that he's on the hot seat. Here's the link:
The paywalled article is the one that's blockquoted in the OP and it was written by Travis Haney.
You're right. I read them both one after the other. But, the point is still valid. None of these coaches are saying there is a rumor that Hoke or Borges will be fired. They are just saying it is their opinion that they believe Hoke needs to fire Borges to stay off the hot seat. Hoke isn't going anywhere and there are no rumors on Borges yet either.
Les, besides the various issues he has with people here, is 60 years old. He's almost certainly going to retire from LSU.
I could definitely see Hoke making staff changes, though.
Dantonio to Texas!
Dantonio to Texas!!
Dantonio to Texas!!!
(just because I started the rumor doesn't make it not true)
Not that it would happen, but would anyone be happy if we threw 10 million at Saban and hired him?