Don Brown Speaks About Last Year's Losses
Don Brown recently spoke about the losses last year to OSU and Florida and the defense's collapse in those games.
He's obviously upset with how the year ended and says he's taking steps to make sure it doesn't happen again. However, he also states that he's "set in my ways." Overall, I'm not sure how to take the article. What does the board think?
I think he is very good at his job, but this place over rates him a bit. The facts are he does amazing work, especially when his defense is more talented than the other team. But struggles against very good offenses.
I think I pretty much fall into this category. Saying he "struggles against very good offenses" obviously describes most DCs, but the disparity between how well his defenses perform against teams with inferior talent and against those with superior talent is huge.
I've started wondering if Brown's defense can really hold up against elite offenses. If you have an average QB and/or an average O-line, Brown can absolutely eat you alive. It seems like reasonably accurate QBs and/or decent protection can kill the defense though. Seems like it's feast or famine sometimes
He's been practicing against the Harbaughffense the last few years and has gotten very good at stopping that sort of offense, but has not been great at stopping more modern offenses. Perhaps practicing opposite Gattis will bring improvement.
March 28th, 2019 at 12:11 PM ^
I wonder how is scheme would play out in the Big 12???
March 28th, 2019 at 12:22 PM ^
It seems nonsensical that the type of offense your own team runs dictates what you practice against, especially if it's a unique system. Is that not the very reason you have a scout team offense to simulate the various offense's you will actually play?
I get the utility of sometimes going up against the first team offense from a individual development perspective (and for the offense to practice), but scheme-wise it makes little sense to only practice against the Harbaughffense.
March 28th, 2019 at 12:59 PM ^
A scout team gives you good looks and does run some of the upcoming opponents offense. However, a scout teams inferior talent leads to defenses dominating in practice but then struggle in the game bc no matter how good your scout team may be, they’re no where near what a live Ohio state would be.
I think the solution to slowing down ohio state is state is preparing for them weekly. You don’t gotta spend much time at all doing it. Have the analysts break down the buckeyes and see what they struggle with or excel at. Implement a period at the very end of each practice where we simulate the things that bother Ohio state. The OL will be shown all of their most common and unique blitzes. The DL and LBs I’ll see how Ohio state blocks certain blitzes and where they can be had. Most importantly you scout every “important” down and distance where success is crucial. Seeing what Ohio state does in these situations and learning how to defend against them will be huge in succeeding on the field bc 9 times out of 10 a team faced with a situation where success is crucial end up running their bread and butter plays (the stuff they’re most comfortable with). Every time we play Ohio state they look comfortable. It’s time to make them uncomfortable.
What do you think happens in spring ball and fall camp? There is no game to immediately prepare for and both sides of the ball need to improve at their stuff. There is no scout team yet.
Don Brown will see the Michigan offense over the course of the season much more than any other team he actually has to play against.
I stopped wondering in the second quarter of last year's OSU game.
They can't.
March 28th, 2019 at 11:54 AM ^
We were within 7 points in the 3rd quarter, until Bush went out (a 1st rounder). We had another 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder playing injured. Long went out (and they were picking on dbs not named long).
7 points is fool's gold on how dominant OSU has been against Michigan thus far. The only way Michigan can beat OSU is OSU shooting themselves in the foot or stopped themselves. OSU gifted them a TD with a ST turnover. The defense could not stop them all day long.
Sometimes you have to win with offense. M relied on its D all last year and that usually worked... until it didn't.
Did Florida really have offensive talent appreciably above what M faced most of the year? M had injuries and players who didn't show, and Florida had an OC who understood how to take advantage of what M had out there on D.
M's offense had a glacier tempo and kept going for body blows which the Florida D had the personnel to handle it. The D isn't going to win every game when you have other teams with elite offensive game planners (Meyer and Mullen) with enough tools to pull it off. Sometimes the offense needs to step it up when that happens because it will.
March 28th, 2019 at 10:27 AM ^
The issue is we didn't really "hold up" the better offenses we played against. Not even fucking close. If we played with even 1/2 of the defensive pressure and scheming we had all season, we're at least close in the last 2 games of the season. The whole revenge tour thing was nice but getting rocked down the stretch (again) was not fun.
March 28th, 2019 at 11:24 AM ^
If you think OSU last year or PSU last year were just made of reasonable QBs or decent protection, you're an idiot.
OSU has a QB who is going to be a 1st round draft pick and the OL despite their inconsistent play held up remarkably well against Michigan in protecting Haskins.
Because we had no pass rush, because key guys sat out to protect their earning potential. And Winovich was playing hurt.
"...but the disparity between how well his defenses perform against teams with inferior talent and against those with superior talent is huge."
Alabama, which has a defensive two-deep of 5* future NFL players, gave up 78 points in their two CFP games.
I doubt his defenses at Boston College were more talented than very good offenses, yet he still had top 5 defenses and performed well against spread teams.
Except that this isn't true. It's just something people like to say. He defense certainly wasn't always more talented when he had top defenses at Boston College. And his defense was not the problem against 2017 OSU or 2018 ND.
Defense was a problem vs ND early on which put them in a big hole they couldn't crawl out of. Allowed Wimbush to run on them and complete some long 50/50 balls. They got it under control later but the damage was done.
March 28th, 2019 at 12:23 PM ^
Yeah that game was lost in the 1st quarter.
If we can be “knocked out” of games while the other team is in the teens we don’t belong anywhere near the playoff. Both sides of the ball need to be elite. You think Oklahoma or Bama wrap up shop when the other team is in the god damn teens? Wow.
Wimbush had the game of his life. He hit impossible windows. Hawkins was defending one of the impossible throws and tipped it to the WR for a TD. If that game is played 10 times, the outcome doesn't repeat. Now, ND thew it in neutral when they discovered our offense was unable to even remotely pass block against their D, so maybe if they kept it a full throttle they still have success.
Wimbush ran a bit, sure. Good defense doesn't mean 0 yards allowed on every possession. He had 59 yards on 19 carries, 3.1 per. The rest of the offense had 73 yards on 28 carries, 2.6 per. Their first two drives were aided by personal foul penalties, and consisted of a 26 yard needle thread against Hill to convert 3rd &9, and the aforementioned 43 yard TD dime. Their final TD came when Winovich roughed the passer after a 3rd down incompletion. Should have been a FG. 17-10 would have seemed worlds better than 21-10 at half.
....game of his life, sigh, yes, as did haskins and the unknown Florida qb.
In the ND game, there were a half-dozen plays that while not quite luck, were very lucky. Sometimes players make great plays.
OSU was mystifying. How their line completely shut down our pass rush after they were mediocre against Minnesota, Purdue and others is a mystery.
Florida players were out and the team seemed deflated after OSU.
All excuses, yes, but I think our D is overall competitive. If our offense actually does something I think our D would look a lot better. Looking forward to speed in space.
Not all excuses. Two very reasonable explanations for losses and 1 disaster where we were just flat outplayed.
I agree with above posters that ND could VERY easily have gone another way. And it was pretty clear the motivated team won the bowl game.
I hear what your saying, but I can really only think of 3 games since Don Brown has been here where our defense struggled the whole game.. 2016 PSU was a debacle from the start, and then OSU and Florida last year. There have been moments in other games where our defense gives up big plays, but he corrects it on the fly. He avenged himself for the Penn State performance, and I'm not willing to put that OSU game completely on his shoulders. I think we went into that game cocky as a team, and got dominated in all facets as a result. No matter what the players will say...I think by the Florida game the team had quit on the season. Being ranked in the top 5 in every statistical category year after year, and seeing how well players have developed in his system...saying we overrate him is a bit of a stretch.
I have no idea what the team was thinking before the Ohio State game, but I find it inconceivable they went into the game feeling cocky, given our record against them during this century and the fact the game was in Columbus.
Trust me, I feel the same way. Just what I heard.
March 28th, 2019 at 10:12 AM ^
That seems to be the best explanation of the OSU game: UM read the press clippings and OSU was desperate to win with it being Meyer's last game against UM.
March 28th, 2019 at 10:29 AM ^
Or maybe OSU had better football players?
March 28th, 2019 at 10:43 AM ^
Did OSU have better players in 2016, when, if not for a very costly turnover on the 2 in the 1st half, Michigan would have very likely won?
March 28th, 2019 at 10:48 AM ^
You havn't seen the picture of the ref and Weber have you?
March 28th, 2019 at 10:54 AM ^
The pat on the behind? I think we've all seen it. But that turnover was costly. They drove all the way to the 2, and got nothing. It was a really great drive. Jedd Fisch is a great coach.
March 28th, 2019 at 12:11 PM ^
Well, the Maryland game had just happened and OSU looked quite pedestrian. We still shouldn't have been cocky though.
*this millennium
Given the perceived trajectory of the two teams over the course of the season, I can see how we might have gone into The Game overconfident. OSU was seen as a teetering program that had been plagued by off-field turmoil and struggled in games against mediocre competition (case in point: Maryland). Michigan, on the other hand, had annihilated every Big Ten team it had played. The media was filled with hot takes about how this is the year Michigan gets over the hump. So yeah, they might have been a tad overconfident.
Actually putting up great stats against lower teams then not playing well against good teams is pretty much exactly what being overrated is.
I just find it funny people tend to think when we beat teams they're lower opponents, but if we lose we can't beat good teams. I will never scoff at putting up good numbers against conference opponents or other P5 teams. Other programs don't mark their stats with an asterisk against teams with less talent than them and there is no reason Michigan should either.
So much this.
MSU and OSU don't asterisk their wins against us because they were far more talented or better coached. A win is a win is a win.
Going back through the results over the last few years, I can see the argument that the defense has truly been exceptional outside of a few outliers. However, we're analyzing the defense's performance, not whether "a win is a win."
Last year, I think the defense's statistical dominance may have been slightly inflated due to the schedule and the health of those team's quarterbacks when we played them (Hornibrook, McSorley, Lewerke, even Wimbush was replaced mid-year). It was a very good defense that didn't run up against an offense operating on all cylinders until it was exposed against OSU. The disparity in our expectations versus the actual results in that game certainly has lead to more uproar than if we had been an average defense all year and were then torched by OSU's offense.
March 28th, 2019 at 10:19 AM ^
Lol at you including Lewerke and Wimbush because you think they were replaced due to health.
March 28th, 2019 at 10:47 AM ^
?
Lewerke had an injury to his throwing shoulder for the UM game and performed terribly. He had, by most accounts, a season that was drastically worse than what was expected early in the year as MSU ended up having one of the worst offenses in the B1G. That may have some affect on how many viewed the defense's utter dominance in that game at the time.
I added Wimbush at the end of that list to support the point that many's perception of the defense's performance against ND at the time may have been inflated as their QB was replaced mid-year and their offense greatly improved.
March 28th, 2019 at 10:06 AM ^
Amen. It's a goalpost moving argument to me. If we beat them they were over-rated, and if we lost to them we utterly failed when we should have won.
The fact of the matter is that when we went into games vs. Wisci or PSU alot of us were justifiably nervous because those teams had played us very tough before, and still had alot of talent. MSU will *always* give us the clubber lang haymaker, so they are always a dangerous team for us to face.
To me the truth is both liberating, but also humbling.
1. We used to get rogered by some of the teams that we are beating soundly now. We've gotten better. Period, end of sentence. We were worse than we thought in the years prior to Harbaugh, and the rebuilding was going to take longer than we wanted.
2. I also think that in college, a bad loss in a key matchup can really affect a team way more than in the pros. Suppose its #3 Michigan and #4 Wisci, both sound teams with undefeated records, and Michigan beats Wisci by 21 points.
Wisci might rebound, but I think that in college an otherwise talented team can tank a few games after such an emotional loss. So all of the sudden the Wisci that beat ranked teams leading up to us loses to an unranked Iowa and we say 'Ooooh! Overrated! Our win isn't quality!' when at the time they were firing on all cylinders.
3. I hate losing to OSU. But while I love coach Harbaugh and think he's done a great job, OSU has had one great coach (Tressel) followed by one of the best coaches in college football ( Meyer) and at this point decades of excellent recruiting and program momentum. It shouldn't shock us when they come in with a talent advantage, one of the best to coach the game at the college level, and a burning desire to target *US* specifically, it's a bear to beat them.
That sucks for us, but its the truth as I see it.
I think we'll get there. But it is what it is.
March 28th, 2019 at 11:24 AM ^
Plenty of less talented teams have beaten OSU the last 20 years.
Harbaugh has not by any measure done a great job.
March 28th, 2019 at 11:47 AM ^
OSU doesn't focus on those teams with laser like intensity. I think that costs them at times losing games they really shouldn't and looking sloppy in other wins.
March 28th, 2019 at 11:52 AM ^
Exactly, think about how hard it must be to prepare for freaking Purdue when you are Ohio State. This is week in week out for OSU, other than 3-4 games a year. That's the only reason they get upset. Same reason Bo's teams used to get upset once a year. Same reason Indiana seems to give us the business. These kids aren't paying attention every week, and I'm not criticizing at all. I can't be bothered to watch every game when it's Appalachian State...
March 28th, 2019 at 12:21 PM ^
He has by my measure. I went from expecting a loss and being surprised by a win to the inverse. That feeds the investment we all put into the program.
To feel he isn’t great is a negative supposition viewpoint. He hasn’t given us the high we desired but it’s year five and there are more to come, God willing. This comment won’t age well.
Hoke's winning percentage against MSU/OSU/ND/Bowl Game: 26.7% (4-11)
Harbaugh's winning percentage against MSU/OSU/ND/Bowl Game: 23% (3-10)
Rich Rod's Winning percentage against MSU/OSU/ND/Bowl Game: 20% (2-8)
Lloyd's winning percentage against MSU/OSU/ND/Bowl Game his last 4 seasons: 43.75% (7-9)
***
Two of those results got coaches fired. Another was enough to drive people crazy to the point they were ready to run Lloyd out of town...But yet I am supposed to feel Harbaugh has done a 'great' job here?
With Lloyd what really drove us crazy was not performance against rivals but the guaranteed yearly loss to an inferior opponent