to play football, not to play trumpet
Denard: I could take Usain Bolt (at a 40 yd dash)
Seems kind of out of character for Denard to say something like this, not that I necessarily disagree with him
I'm pretty sure this statement was 99.9% tongue in cheek from Denard...
why does it have to be tongue in cheek. He was saying he'd be faster over the first 40. Why wouldn't that be true. He was honestly saying its the last 60 where bold would pull away.
Bolt: NOT powered but flash dilithium. (powered by...?)
with a quick search, Bolt had a split of 4.64s at 40m when he ran the 9.58. Denard would be right there with him at forty yards, but much further than that and Bolt pulls away.
Nothing tongue and cheek about it IMO.
40m =/= 40y
I didn't say Denard was faster, I said he'd be right there. Denard runs forty yards faster than 4.6.
unless you mean he would be within several yards of him. i doubt denard gets a better "jump" than bolt who practices track every day. bolt's 40 splits were even better than carl lewis and ben johnson.
It wouldn't even be close.
I was defending my original post against saying that 40m =/= 40y. Denard definitely runs faster than a 4.6 40y, so that's all the post you replied to said.
As to whether he could hang with Bolt for 120ft, I'd reply that Bolt doesn't have to have elite acceleration to be the fastest 100m/200m runner. If there were an Olympic 50m/30m, I think Denard would be in serious contention for a medal.
you would know that he is crap out of the blocks. He had been doing considerable work on his start out of the blocks building up to the olympics because he knew his starts were far below most of his other competitors.He had a flase start during Olympic qualifying that further exacerbated his issues with his starts.
Look at most of his races and see were he is during the first 40 meters...he's playing catch-up. It is the last 60 where he catches up and passes his competition.
Now I'm not saying Denard could beat Bolt in a race of any length, but the idea that it is because Bolt would have a far superior start isn't where I would hang my hat in this debate.
To hash out the math on that (40 meters = 43.7445 yards):
Assuming Denard runs about a 4.32 (the only figure I ever remember seeing) for the first 40 and continues at that pace (a completely inexact estimation) for another 3.7445 yards, he would get to 40 meters in 4.7244 seconds, not too far behind Bolt's pace to that point. For comparison's sake, Bolt's pace would calculate to a 4.243 40 yard time (another completely inexact estimation).
EDIT: This inexact meaure of pace from Bolt would put him in a virtual deadheat with Chris Johnson's 4.24 40 at the combine a few years ago.
You get 4.24 if you take a straight proportion of [time] X [36.576yd] / [40m].
HOWEVA, 100 meter champions apparently accelerate through the first 50 or so meters, so a better estimate can be made by taking times at 30m and then estimating the time run in the last 6.576 meters by prorating the runners' 30-40m split. For Bolt's '08 Olympic run, this yields a 4.35. (Though since he was still accelerating through 40m, his true time at 40yd might have been closer to 4.36; I refuse to use calculus on a message board, dammit.)
I cant contribute anything to this discussion, but I dont think you will ever see this discussion taking place on any forum except for one representing the greatest university in the world, University of Michigan.
its not like RCMB hasn't posted some pretty impressive discussions:
I swear RCMB has threads like that sticky-ed. Just golden stuff.
Looking at the splits here, Bolt covered the first 40 yards in Beijing in '08 in 4.35 seconds, and all the fastest times in the world leading up to that run (by Maurice Greene, Asafa Powell, etc.) covered the first 40 in approximately the same time.
On the one hand, 4.35 definitely seems doable for Denard. On the other, I have a hard time thinking that he'd beat all the fastest people who've ever lived, in the primes of their career, and having comitted themselves to training programs aimed purely at increasing sprinting speed.
Denard has been timed at 4.32 I believe
That doesn't take his reaction into account. The way football people measure the 40, they start the clock on the runner's movement, as opposed to when the gun sounds. If they measured it the way track and field does it, his time would probably be more like 4.45-4.50.
It sounds like a well-reasoned answer, and Denard did put his typical touch of humility at the end. It's not like he said he could outrun Bolt in Bolt's specialty. I don't think this was the least bit "out of character," and I think Denard could back up his statement.
It wouldn't be true because Usain Bolt is the fastest person in the history of the world.
While it is out of character for Denard, I was under the impression that the weakest part of Bolt's game, so to speak, is his start out of the blocks. Same reason why Chris Johnson has said that he thinks he could beat Bolt in a 40.
Chris Johnson also does his best work at the end of a contest. Put up a lot of numbers in garbage time last year, that guy.
But it's not like Bolt is bad at getting off the blocks; he's just slightly worse at it than some of the other 5-10 fastest men in the world. He's probably better than Denard (or any other non-Olympian) at it.
Bolt looked extra cautious out of the blocks in London. Must have been some carry over from his DQ at the Worlds.
And in all honesty, its not like you have to be that quick out of the blocks when you have an extra gear that no one else in the field has.
That is a 10/10 avatar-name combo right there.
Botl has always had one of the "slower" starts for an elite sprinter, due to his longer-than-average torso and legs. So yeah, short little muscular guys like Johnson could certainly get a jump on him, but after a couple of seconds Bolt's longer stride takes over and they'd all be lost. So yeah, I could definitely see Denard keeping up with Bolt, but it would be close.
Does anyone know how fast runs the 40 in? I'd be curious to know.
I'd love to see that race.
I think Denard wins. A 40 is not the same as a 100 meter. Plus Bolt would be mesmerized by Denards smile and start crying at the mere sight of such a thing.
I wonder if it is hard to switch them up going from football to track?
This was discussed on Reddit also. User "Spicy_TWatkins" provides some interesting insight:
40 yard times are measured off of the runners start not the runner reacting to a gun. Bolt had a reaction time in that race of 0.146s, so subtracting that off you get to a 40 yard dash time of about 4.05s.
Just looked at Denard's profile on Michigan's track team's website and his 60m PB is 6.81s, Bolt ran the first 60m in Bejing and Berlin in 6.155 and 6.161, respectively. In less then 24m Bolt wouldn't be able to make up 0.6s on Denard, he would have to already be well ahead at 36.576m (40yds).
Or maybe Denard slows down more after 40 than Bolt does. Good thing for Denard
the hypothetical race is a 40yd Not 60m.
I'll take Denard with 30 seconds left in the game, down 3 points, on our own 20 yard line.
Denard is clearly not intimidated by gold; be it on medals or helmets.
Bolt would crush him even at 40 yds. 4.05 sounds reasonable for him, but people have to understand that Bolt is already beating or close to beating sub-10s 100m guys by 40 yds. There are only a few people on the planet who can keep up with Bolt at that distance. Denard doesn't have that kind of speed, even though he does have great acceleration. And, if Bolt were to get a decent start like he did when he clocked a 9.58, than I think Bolt could showboat the last 5+ yds maybe. I expect people like Chris Johnson and Denard to be confident in themselves, so I'm not even surprised he said this.
4.05?!?!? Nobody on Earth can get that in the first 40m. The last 40m Bolt might be 4.05.
The dude is 6'5", that is why his starts are "slow", but whence he commences upon full stride he becomes THE FASTEST MAN IN THE WORLD.
That's a "football" 4.05 - in football, they measure it by the runner's movement, not from the gun.
BTW, I'm pretty sure Bolt runs the last 40m of a race in well under four seconds. Otherwise it'd be impossible for him to cover 100m in under 10 seconds.
I think we also need to remember 40m > 40 yards
The 4.05 time suggested above was for 40 yards, not 40m. What is your confusion?
Bolt ran the last 40m of the 100m in 3.27s.
Why would a 4.05m electronically-timed 40 yards be surprising?
Because the last 40M is when he is at full speed, that is a way different thing than being timed from when he starts, most of the 40 yard dash is still acceleration, so yes a 4.05 40 yard dash would be absoilutely incredible and IMO impossible at this point in time
Bolt trains to accelerate at the 40-50m mark when he runs the 100m. If you were to shorten the distance, Bolt would re-adjust his strategy accordingly.
The guy may not have the most prefect techinque getting off the blocks, but it doesn't matter because he has world-class acceleration and higher top speed than anyone in the world. If Bolt trained for the 40 yards and ran a sub-4.1s time, I would not be shocked.
is significantly slower than his second 50, Bolt takes a little while longer to get going because of his height.
Every sprinter has a slower second 50m then they do first 50m.
"faster" second 50m. Good point, though.
Yeah, my bad.
The strength of the runner has a secondary consideration once the runner has left the starting blocks. The start is virtually instant acceleration, which continues for approximately 30 m to 40 m. After 60 m, the runner cannot accelerate any further and success in the race is then determined by how long the runner can maintain top speed, attempting to defeat the forces of deceleration acting on the body.
You don't reach maximal acceleration at 60m, you reach *zero* acceleration at 60m (assuming the bit about reaching max speed at 60 is true.) Maximum acceleration is most likely within the first few moments of starting, since you get higher acceleration at lower speeds given equal power.
Maximal velocity at 60m, zero acceleration (my second sentence was more accurate).
BTW, it's great to be in a forum where people care about being precise.
They're talking about it on 97.1 The Ticket right now. And some pretty snarky texts are coming in like, "Usain Bolt could complete more passes than Denard."
I'm pretty sure Denard and Devin were just joking around.
Why did you feel you needed to bring this up? There is a 90% chance there's a total tool on that station right now anyway. I suppose he should also roll over come Sept. 1st for the Bama game because they are defending champs and favored by double digits. Fact is on a good day with Bolt having his typical poor start, denard could beat him in the 40.
Lemme guess who the host is, its not 2-5 on a weekday, so it must be Pat Caputo... he is the most Sparty biased "unbiased" person I have ever heard.
Whatever, I think the race would be a lot closer than we give it credit for. Denard and Usain Bolt are both competitors. The drive of competion would bring the best out in both of them, and I think Usain Bolt would beat him, but I personally think it would be within .08 second.
Speaking of Usain Bolt, did anyone else see that they recorded his split yesterday in the 4X100 as 9.22... No one is beating that...
The relay splits are going to be much faster than the individual events because they don't start at a standstill, nor need to react to a gun (except for the first runner, obviously.)
Blows Dantonio figuratively and literally.
Have to disagree with Denard. Bolt is usually tied or just taking the lead at 40m when he gets a decent start, so Denard would have to be leading the Olympic 100m finals at that point of the race. No way.
FWIW, Justin Gatlin, who ran a 9.79 100m at the Olympics, posted a 40 time of 4.42 at the 2008 NFL Combine.
I can't find a video of the 100m final this year but I believe Gatlin led until Bolt took over the last 30-40 meters.
Edit: Also note that Gatlin's reaction (.178) time was slower than Bolt's (.165) in the final.
I believe Denard (and other elite speed football players like C. Johnson, T. Holliday and Jacoby Ford) could take Bolt in the 40 yard dash.
Someone forgot to tell Denard that today was everything is super serious day.
A-holes...who forgets that kind of thing
That would be fun to watch. Denrad says he can kick Bolt's ass: Then Denard can kick Bolt's ass. Nuff said.
I do know for a fact, nobody on ND can catch Denard from 87 yards in, and nobody on Ohio State can keep up with him from about 42 yards
You cannot simulate speed
Lesser known dual-threat QB's of the world.
I always have wondered what the first Irish dude says to Denard when he is kneeling down after the TD. I am guessing it wasn't something very nice.
to say, "Four fakes out of five."
I don't know whether Denard could take Bolt in a 40, but I've heard far more ridiculous ideas.
What I'd really like to see is a race between him and De'Anthony Thomas of Oregon, who has the same kind of ridiculous acceleration as Denard.
Is that I track you go once you hear the gun and if you get a false start you are disqualified. 40s are taken on the runners start. I'm not sure how much faster that would make bolt's 40.
With the rules for motion pre-snap, is it any question that Bolt would be insane in the Arena Football league?
Is there any precedent for track stars becoming RBs or WRs?
Willie Gault and Renaldo Nehemiah, for starters.
... and as a long suffering Jets fan, I can't forget Lam Jones.
Ron Brown (Rams/Raiders) and James Jett (Raiders)
Won an Olympic gold medal and a Super Bowl ring
Tim Brown...Deion Sanders (yea, he had some elite speed, though you did say WRs, so).
Willie Heston could outrun his classmate Archie Hahn over the first 40 yards. (Hahn was the 1904 Gold Medalist at 100 meters.)
The fact that we are having this conversation about our senior starting quarterback is amazing. I hope he has turbo boosters for Bama. He will need them to stay alive. Go Blue
Meh. Bolt's a good downhill runner, but he's got no wiggle. Kovacs would track him down on the angles and destroy him 9 times out of 10.
I think I could take them both in a 1 yard dash, but after 2 yds I'd be in trouble and after 5 yds they'd be gone.
Take the blocks away, and I say Denard takes him at 40.
The only reason Bolt lags behind in the first 30-40 meters is to have a burst for the end. If he needed to go all out for 40M he could still blow by any man in the world.
(Assuming DR comment not tongue-in-cheek)
You don't pace yourself for a 9.6 second race. It's balls to the wall, the entire way.
Let's make it a real world comparison. Have them both in helmet and pads. Then have Bolt untie his shoelaces. At the gun both have to drop a football, pick it up and race. Go Denard!!!!
in helmet, cleats and shoulder pads.
I can throw a pigskin a quarter of a mile. Signed, Uncle Reco
don't know if denard could beat bolt or any other olympic sprinter in a 40, but I would love to see it.
I agreed with the ascertion that by 60yds they would be pulling away and 100m there wouldn't have been a question.
Honestly, I think Denard would be within a step or two in a 40 but still think Bolt takes 40, i'm thinking denard is underestimating how fast olympic sprinters get off the blocks.
There isn't a chance Denard would win in a 40. There are but a few people in the world who could beat Bolt in a 40 and they're all standing next to him at the start of the Olympic 100m race.
People always underestimate Track athletes because they're not scoring touchdowns or dunking lob passes. But the fact of the matter is those guys lining up at the start of that backstretch at the Olympic Stadium are the 8 fastest people in the world (not the NFL, or the US - THE WORLD) with with VERY few exceptions, none of which include Denard.
But yes, good point about underestimating the track athletes. I laughed at the remark about only a few people able to stand a chance and they're al standing next to him; oh so true! Denard could hang for 30 meters; from there it's all Bolt. A couple steps i.e. strides, behind Bolt is not a small incriment in these types of races, it's a large one, by the way. Denard is mach 2. Bolt is light speed.
Gatlin went to the NFL Combine a few yrs ago and ran a 4.42 40 and he is considered a better starter than bolt. Denard should be right there in a 40
100m track speed probably doesn't have much correlation to 40y dash speeds taken in the NFL model. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a lot of guys in the NFL put up a better forty time than Bolt, it certainly happened with Gatlin. You have to remember that reaction time and true top end speed count for
nothing in a forty, both of which helped Bolt become elite in the 100m race.
It's like saying that certain swimmers can best Phelps in the 50m or in an open water race. Phelps doesn't train for those conditions and probably could fall to an opponent that does.
think that this is absolutely insane that we are having a justifiable debate as to whether our QUARTERBACK can beat the fastest man on the planet in a race?
Don't be enamored with Bolt's golf medals and just assume no one could compete with him.
He is the fastest guy who was not coordinated enough to excel at any other sports. If you took the entire population of the Unites States and focused everyone on running the 100 instead of football, basketball etc you might have seen a different gold medalist.
Someone above me posted J. Gatlin's numbers and that is a great barometer. Denard given 6 months of training could probably give him a run for his money. Right now he has no chance. He is training for football not track.
Bolt has golf medals, too? Crap. That was the one thing I was thinking I just might be able to beat him at.
For some reason this discussion reminds me of the commercial where a Toyota Corona raced the Green Monster and won ... for the first 98 yards:
Bolt is only gold not dilithium - I say Denard wins in a 40 yard dash. Anything longer and Bolt wins by a pretty good margin.
At 6'5" it takes Bolt a while to get going, while Denard has incredible acceleration. That would be the difference.
Plus, an athelete is an athelete and speed is speed regardless of whether you are labeled a sprinter or a football player.
Look at swimming. Guys like Michael Phelps don't even swim in the 50m races because they are specialist events won by people who do one thing well--have incredible starts.
Now, I have no idea if Denard would have an incredible start or not--he woud probably need to train like crazy to even have a chance. But there is no question that Bolt is NOT one of the best starters in the world. If there were a 40 yard dash in the Olympics, he would probably not be the winner. He might not even enter the event. Remember, he was originally a 200m runner and that is still his better event.
Can he take DITKA?
Legend Status: Confirmed
I don't know how to embed ..but this is the clip sports science did on Denard, I think he could hang pretty good with Bolt. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jja74-4ma8w
I like the confidence and he has a point, but still Bolt is as close to out of this world as possible. Denard's acceleration is in the 99 percentile of the college football feild, but not when he's competing against the level Bolt is. Makes Denard look extra fast when comparing.
That being said, David Brandon, get on it. Charge for it if you insist.
What would really impress is if he's developed a passing game to complement his running game. He is a QB after all.
Yep hilarious joke here guy. Got a regular Dane Cook among us. Almost as funny as Rob Schneider
I read the same story in USA Today:
It's been a great discussion. Anytime you bring math to the table to verify is a great discussion. I would add that from my reading of the article, Bolt will compete at Denard's event, the 40-year. And I would have to assume that it would be done in the same way that football players are timed (i.e. no starting blocks, no gun). Given that, I think Denard has a chance.
Isn't it fun to be having a discussion about who is faster: an Olympic gold medalist or your starting QB in the 40?
I just noticed on the sidebar there that Nicole Auerbach, recently of the Michigan Daily, got a job at USA Today. Good for her!
Denard is probably talking about having Bolt run a 40-yard dash at the NFL combine just like he would, so the timer starts on athlete movement. So all of Bolt's track-start training is meaningless.
It really comes down to initial acceleration, and while Bolt is pretty much the fastest man in history from about 40m on, his first 40m, while world-class, is NOT super-human like the rest of his race is. Denard might not be able to beat him to 40 yards, but I'm not sure that hanging with him would be delusional. Of course, after 40 yards Bolt would leave him in the dust.