fair point that
Denard: I could take Usain Bolt (at a 40 yd dash)
Seems kind of out of character for Denard to say something like this, not that I necessarily disagree with him
I'm pretty sure this statement was 99.9% tongue in cheek from Denard...
why does it have to be tongue in cheek. He was saying he'd be faster over the first 40. Why wouldn't that be true. He was honestly saying its the last 60 where bold would pull away.
Bolt: NOT powered but flash dilithium. (powered by...?)
with a quick search, Bolt had a split of 4.64s at 40m when he ran the 9.58. Denard would be right there with him at forty yards, but much further than that and Bolt pulls away.
Nothing tongue and cheek about it IMO.
40m =/= 40y
I didn't say Denard was faster, I said he'd be right there. Denard runs forty yards faster than 4.6.
unless you mean he would be within several yards of him. i doubt denard gets a better "jump" than bolt who practices track every day. bolt's 40 splits were even better than carl lewis and ben johnson.
It wouldn't even be close.
I was defending my original post against saying that 40m =/= 40y. Denard definitely runs faster than a 4.6 40y, so that's all the post you replied to said.
As to whether he could hang with Bolt for 120ft, I'd reply that Bolt doesn't have to have elite acceleration to be the fastest 100m/200m runner. If there were an Olympic 50m/30m, I think Denard would be in serious contention for a medal.
you would know that he is crap out of the blocks. He had been doing considerable work on his start out of the blocks building up to the olympics because he knew his starts were far below most of his other competitors.He had a flase start during Olympic qualifying that further exacerbated his issues with his starts.
Look at most of his races and see were he is during the first 40 meters...he's playing catch-up. It is the last 60 where he catches up and passes his competition.
Now I'm not saying Denard could beat Bolt in a race of any length, but the idea that it is because Bolt would have a far superior start isn't where I would hang my hat in this debate.
To hash out the math on that (40 meters = 43.7445 yards):
Assuming Denard runs about a 4.32 (the only figure I ever remember seeing) for the first 40 and continues at that pace (a completely inexact estimation) for another 3.7445 yards, he would get to 40 meters in 4.7244 seconds, not too far behind Bolt's pace to that point. For comparison's sake, Bolt's pace would calculate to a 4.243 40 yard time (another completely inexact estimation).
EDIT: This inexact meaure of pace from Bolt would put him in a virtual deadheat with Chris Johnson's 4.24 40 at the combine a few years ago.
You get 4.24 if you take a straight proportion of [time] X [36.576yd] / [40m].
HOWEVA, 100 meter champions apparently accelerate through the first 50 or so meters, so a better estimate can be made by taking times at 30m and then estimating the time run in the last 6.576 meters by prorating the runners' 30-40m split. For Bolt's '08 Olympic run, this yields a 4.35. (Though since he was still accelerating through 40m, his true time at 40yd might have been closer to 4.36; I refuse to use calculus on a message board, dammit.)
I cant contribute anything to this discussion, but I dont think you will ever see this discussion taking place on any forum except for one representing the greatest university in the world, University of Michigan.
its not like RCMB hasn't posted some pretty impressive discussions:
I swear RCMB has threads like that sticky-ed. Just golden stuff.
Looking at the splits here, Bolt covered the first 40 yards in Beijing in '08 in 4.35 seconds, and all the fastest times in the world leading up to that run (by Maurice Greene, Asafa Powell, etc.) covered the first 40 in approximately the same time.
On the one hand, 4.35 definitely seems doable for Denard. On the other, I have a hard time thinking that he'd beat all the fastest people who've ever lived, in the primes of their career, and having comitted themselves to training programs aimed purely at increasing sprinting speed.
Denard has been timed at 4.32 I believe
That doesn't take his reaction into account. The way football people measure the 40, they start the clock on the runner's movement, as opposed to when the gun sounds. If they measured it the way track and field does it, his time would probably be more like 4.45-4.50.
It sounds like a well-reasoned answer, and Denard did put his typical touch of humility at the end. It's not like he said he could outrun Bolt in Bolt's specialty. I don't think this was the least bit "out of character," and I think Denard could back up his statement.
It wouldn't be true because Usain Bolt is the fastest person in the history of the world.
While it is out of character for Denard, I was under the impression that the weakest part of Bolt's game, so to speak, is his start out of the blocks. Same reason why Chris Johnson has said that he thinks he could beat Bolt in a 40.
Chris Johnson also does his best work at the end of a contest. Put up a lot of numbers in garbage time last year, that guy.
But it's not like Bolt is bad at getting off the blocks; he's just slightly worse at it than some of the other 5-10 fastest men in the world. He's probably better than Denard (or any other non-Olympian) at it.
Bolt looked extra cautious out of the blocks in London. Must have been some carry over from his DQ at the Worlds.
And in all honesty, its not like you have to be that quick out of the blocks when you have an extra gear that no one else in the field has.
That is a 10/10 avatar-name combo right there.
Botl has always had one of the "slower" starts for an elite sprinter, due to his longer-than-average torso and legs. So yeah, short little muscular guys like Johnson could certainly get a jump on him, but after a couple of seconds Bolt's longer stride takes over and they'd all be lost. So yeah, I could definitely see Denard keeping up with Bolt, but it would be close.
Does anyone know how fast runs the 40 in? I'd be curious to know.
I'd love to see that race.
I think Denard wins. A 40 is not the same as a 100 meter. Plus Bolt would be mesmerized by Denards smile and start crying at the mere sight of such a thing.
I wonder if it is hard to switch them up going from football to track?
This was discussed on Reddit also. User "Spicy_TWatkins" provides some interesting insight:
40 yard times are measured off of the runners start not the runner reacting to a gun. Bolt had a reaction time in that race of 0.146s, so subtracting that off you get to a 40 yard dash time of about 4.05s.
Just looked at Denard's profile on Michigan's track team's website and his 60m PB is 6.81s, Bolt ran the first 60m in Bejing and Berlin in 6.155 and 6.161, respectively. In less then 24m Bolt wouldn't be able to make up 0.6s on Denard, he would have to already be well ahead at 36.576m (40yds).
Or maybe Denard slows down more after 40 than Bolt does. Good thing for Denard
the hypothetical race is a 40yd Not 60m.
I'll take Denard with 30 seconds left in the game, down 3 points, on our own 20 yard line.
Denard is clearly not intimidated by gold; be it on medals or helmets.
Bolt would crush him even at 40 yds. 4.05 sounds reasonable for him, but people have to understand that Bolt is already beating or close to beating sub-10s 100m guys by 40 yds. There are only a few people on the planet who can keep up with Bolt at that distance. Denard doesn't have that kind of speed, even though he does have great acceleration. And, if Bolt were to get a decent start like he did when he clocked a 9.58, than I think Bolt could showboat the last 5+ yds maybe. I expect people like Chris Johnson and Denard to be confident in themselves, so I'm not even surprised he said this.
4.05?!?!? Nobody on Earth can get that in the first 40m. The last 40m Bolt might be 4.05.
The dude is 6'5", that is why his starts are "slow", but whence he commences upon full stride he becomes THE FASTEST MAN IN THE WORLD.
That's a "football" 4.05 - in football, they measure it by the runner's movement, not from the gun.
BTW, I'm pretty sure Bolt runs the last 40m of a race in well under four seconds. Otherwise it'd be impossible for him to cover 100m in under 10 seconds.
I think we also need to remember 40m > 40 yards
The 4.05 time suggested above was for 40 yards, not 40m. What is your confusion?
Bolt ran the last 40m of the 100m in 3.27s.
Why would a 4.05m electronically-timed 40 yards be surprising?
Because the last 40M is when he is at full speed, that is a way different thing than being timed from when he starts, most of the 40 yard dash is still acceleration, so yes a 4.05 40 yard dash would be absoilutely incredible and IMO impossible at this point in time
Bolt trains to accelerate at the 40-50m mark when he runs the 100m. If you were to shorten the distance, Bolt would re-adjust his strategy accordingly.
The guy may not have the most prefect techinque getting off the blocks, but it doesn't matter because he has world-class acceleration and higher top speed than anyone in the world. If Bolt trained for the 40 yards and ran a sub-4.1s time, I would not be shocked.
is significantly slower than his second 50, Bolt takes a little while longer to get going because of his height.
Every sprinter has a slower second 50m then they do first 50m.
"faster" second 50m. Good point, though.
Yeah, my bad.
The strength of the runner has a secondary consideration once the runner has left the starting blocks. The start is virtually instant acceleration, which continues for approximately 30 m to 40 m. After 60 m, the runner cannot accelerate any further and success in the race is then determined by how long the runner can maintain top speed, attempting to defeat the forces of deceleration acting on the body.
You don't reach maximal acceleration at 60m, you reach *zero* acceleration at 60m (assuming the bit about reaching max speed at 60 is true.) Maximum acceleration is most likely within the first few moments of starting, since you get higher acceleration at lower speeds given equal power.
Maximal velocity at 60m, zero acceleration (my second sentence was more accurate).
BTW, it's great to be in a forum where people care about being precise.
They're talking about it on 97.1 The Ticket right now. And some pretty snarky texts are coming in like, "Usain Bolt could complete more passes than Denard."
I'm pretty sure Denard and Devin were just joking around.