this may be of some local interest
dont make us look like a bunch of whiny bitches
Not whining, but can u explain that INT play ? Why was there no flag throw? The WR was way past 5 yards from the line of scrimmage
you can talk about refs when there is a TD difference but when you lose by almost 30 it is hard to blame the refs
The refs are responsible for many of those 30 points. Reason: momentum. They killed our momentum on a bad call at the beginning of the game, no-called on two block in the backs on our punts, giving away crucial field position, and generally helped Alabama along until they had a hefty lead. Who knows what would have happened if it was called fair?
Thinking us losing had more to do with this..
That and eight yards and a cloud of turf.
The good news is that there aren't any Alabamas on the remainder of our schedule. Denard's effectiveness is proportional to the square of the space he operates in, and that's the minimum he'll see all year. (In fact, I think Borges was trying to avoid getting Denard pounded. Didn't work out so well on the pick.)
The reason they called it off was because Gardner turned the wrong way on his route - Because he did this his stride slowed resulting in him not being close enough to the ball for it to be P.I.
Had he played the ball better and got closer to the ball - You wouldn't have seen it overturned
He's talking about the play where Roundtree was shoved out of bounds by the Alabama corner who then picked off Denard's pass. Obviously, the refs are not the primary, secondary or tertiary reason we lost, but that was about as bad a PI no-call as I've seen.
I'm pretty sure the CB shoved Roundtree before the pass was made, which is allowed, and therefore not PI. I was angry about it at first too, but take a second look.
I thought the most annoying call was the block in the back call on the long kick return. The ref was like one of those basketball refs that waits to blow the whistle depending on if the shot goes in or not. Once he saw Northfleet break a long return, he threw the flag about 10 seconds late.
Roundtree is just not a wideout. He's a slot. Time to get the two freshmen out there. Evidently Jerald Robinson will forever remain Jerald Robinson.
his breakout soph year had more to do with RichRod's scheme than anything
If the ball wasn't in the air, then it was defensive holding. A sideline take-down on a guy clearly running a pass route should draw a flag. Either way, it was a missed penalty.
You're allowed to shove a guy. It's like jamming him, just down field. For holding he would have to actually hold Roundtree, not just push him. Roundtree fell down because he lost his balance after being pushed, not because he was tackled.
Not holding, most likely not PI.
but that's complete bullshit. After 5 (or 10?) yards past the line of scrimmage, you can't jam a receiver. He was like 20 yards out and he got shoved out of bounds. That's not legal by any stretch of the imagination.
Read the rule book. It's hard to believe so many of you are such big fans and don't know such a basic college football rule. It happens quite often if you actually pay attention. I even posted the rule below. The fact that so many are so adamant against it is embarassing.
That the rule in the NFL. There's no 5 yard jam zone in college.
That's an NFL rule. In college the defender can continue to make contact anywhere as long as the receiver is in front of him and the ball has not been thrown.
Maybe Roundtree should sack up and not get pushed out of bounds. Don't put it in the refs' hands.
Bama dominated this game in every facet... you make the fan base look bad sounding like an excuse maker.
Yeah, different story. Maybe more like 40-17.
Or 34-17. That looks a lot better than the final score
Alabama whooped us good, but calls did make it worse.
Don't look too good to me.
Tell you what, I'll take that score against OSU, with us having the 34. We'll be woofing "Blowout!" all off-season. And rightly so.
We got our asses kicked. Refeeres had no impact on who won or lost this game.
Refs were OK, we played poorly.
You're half right.
The only acceptable view on this is that the only people the performed worse than the refs were wearing winged helmets.
While in nearly every game there is going to be a miss call or two for either team, the blatant lack of calls on the multiple helmet-to-helmet hits I saw was egregious. Alabama defenders were leading with their helmets all night. I was outraged.
At least it wasn't the Sun Belt refs calling the game. That was worst. And a closer game.
Then we should lead with our helmets. Once the 1st quarter is over and you see how they're going to call it, you adjust.
Of the stupid posts made tonight, this is without a doubt the stupidest
The refs sucked dick. But we still would've got dominated either way.
Bad calls or not, we still would have lost this game. Handily, I might add. No point in bitching about the calls when it wouldn't have made much difference.
Oh, shut up, you whiny girl.
calling people a "girl" as a putdown is seriously stupid.
so please shut up as well.
that said, i agree with the sentiment of your post; better calls and we still lose by 20.
the defender can hit the receiver beyond 5 yards as long as the ball is not in the air. So the play by the Bama DB was legit.
That was like 7-8 yards past the line.
Also, if the ball wasn't in the air, Denard must have led him in assumption that he could crab walk at a dead sprint.
We got beat by a better team and calls or non calls mattered little. Our lines were abused and that was the game.
We just got handed a blueprint for where we want to be and how far we need to go to get there. Two years. Go Blue!
Controversial call? Scheduling Alabama.
Bama just ran a train on us in every aspect of the game and you want to talk about controversial calls?
Give me a M***** F***** break.
Michigan got destroyed period. No calls could have helped. The only thing that would have helped was a running clock. I love Michigan, and think the season will end fine, but this post makes me sick. We got man handled from start to finish. Saban is slimy, but he is still light years ahead of Hoke.
Agreed with your post until the end. I do not think games like this reflect the coaches too much. This was literally men vs. boys. I would take Hoke over any coach in the country, that does not change after tonight. No judgments can be made about him until his talent (the back to back to (future) back top-5 recruiting class talent) is on the field.
Wow. Drunk people + The Internet + I'll-Advised post + Beatdown loss = Infinite Sadness.
By the way, this wasn't meant to slam the OP. Lots of grumpy peeps on here tonight who should just be sleeping.
I mean yeah the refs were god awful but if we get some of those calls it's what? 34-14? Or something like that. There were quite a few super annoying calls though, would of pissed me off a lot more if it was a tight game and they would of made a difference.
Not getting the hate on this post. The refs *were* horrendous. Repeatedly missing blocks in the back on punts all the way up until we did one is just one thing on the list. That said, with good officiating we would still have lost by 3 scores. It's just frustrating to watch.
Defenders can make contact with the offensive player as far as they want downfield, as long as the ball isn't in the air. The first pick, the WR got thrown before the ball was thrown.
I, too, thought the refs were pretty bad, mostly in 'bama's favor, but they were pretty bad both ways. That roughing the passer call was helpful. Denard had just thrown the ball and was hit in the chest, bad roughing call IMO.
In the end, the game wasn't even close, and these threads are annoying and embarassing.
why don't DB's just run up and push WR down on every play?
Agreed. If this truly is the rule then every defensive back would be shoving players down regularly.
It was a penalty and a game changing one. Unfortunately a call there would not have saved us from a beating, but it might have brought the score significantly closer. It would have at the very least taken a touchdown away from them.
"Defensive pass interference is contact beyond the neutral zone by a Team B player whose intent to impede an eligible opponent is obvious and it could prevent the opponent the opportunity of receiving a catchable forward pass. When in question, a legal forward pass is catchable. Defensive pass interference occurs only after a legal forward pass is thrown. It is not defensive pass interference:
A DB CANNOT jack a wide receiver OFF HIS FEET (!) while he's running a pass route, regardless of wether the ball is released yet. And since it was an obvious pass play and Denard was in the procees of throwing the ball TO THIS WR that either gets called 100 PERCENT OF THE TIME or it is a BLOWN NON-CALL 100 PERCENT OF THE TIME.
Space Coyote you are not a football ref, so just stop it. You are wrong here. Move along. We get killed by 3 scores regardless.
How about you check out the defensive holding rule while you are at it?
Rule 9 covers "Conduct of Players and Others Subject to the Rules." Section 3 covers "Blocking, Use of Hands or Arms" and Section 4 is directed at defensive players. Section 3, Article 4 of Rule 9 states that a "defensive player may use hands and arms to push, pull, ward off or lift offensive players when attempting to reach the runner." But they may not use hands and arms to tackle, hold or otherwise illegally obstruct an opponent other than a ball carrier. This is, by definition, defensive holding and carries a 10-yard penalty that is awarded to the offense as well as an automatic first down.
So are you making the case that Roy Roundtree was not obstructed?
Because he didn't actually hold him. He pushed him, which is allowed. He didn't trip him, tackle him, hold him, grab him, or anything else. Pushing him is allowed.
You guys are missing the key piece of the rule (9-3-4-c):
But to make it clear, that rule applies to an eligible pass receiver attempting to "obviously block" the defender. It has to do with run plays pretty much, and not with pass plays or pass interference. It is basically setting up defensive holding on run downs, saying that the defender can't illegally impede the offensive player so that other defenders can tackle him.
It's the same for a 5 yard rule or no rule at all, you can't just shove somebody down every play because you tend to get out of position if you miss. It's not like the CB destroyed Roundtree, Roundtree was off balance when the corner pushed him and he fell out of bounds. It's a perfectly legal play.
And no, they can't simply tackle them because that's defensive holding. But theoretically you could jam a WR anywhere on the field. Of course, you would be risking that the other team throws a quick pass and then it's PI.
I don't buy that interpretation. So you are telling me that any time a player runs a crossing route that a LB can just knock the ever-living-crap out of him as long as the ball is not in the air? If so, why don't we see that more often? Even if you were to occasionally get called because the ball got thrown early, it would still create an incentive to head-hunt in the middle and would probably take away a lot of those throws from the game.
Because you can't "charge" a player after they are more than one yard past the line of scrimmage, so that means you can't level the guy. It is an exception to the rule. You can run with them and shove them and push them all you want, but you can't "charge" them.
That would also be a penelty for hitting an unprotected player. So you're looking at giving up 15 yards when you do that.
What the corner did to Roundtree was neither of those things. It was a clean push in which Roundtree was in the middle of his stride and lost his balance, thus falling down out of bounds.
Roundtree was off balance and "he fell"??? Hoy crap you sound like the biggest Bama homer ever. If you're a Michigan fan you're grandparents are probably Vichy French.
I've been waiting around for years for Michigan to play Bama again so that I could troll mgoblog. Watch the tape! The cornerback shoves Roundtree with one arm!
Now you still can't see from this angle if the ball was thrown or not (I can't find the endzone angle they showed at one point), but if Denard still has the ball this is no penalty.
I believe you are wrong.
Applies to a defender trying to get to a ball carrier. The key word is that this may happen when the eligible receiver is "obviously attempting to block them".
I'm not sure you're correct about the pass not being in the air. I never saw a replay that was definitive one way or the other. Live, Denard threw it to where there was no receiver within 15 yards. On the replay, we see Roundtree getting knocked out of bounds, but never a synched up replay to see whether or not the ball was in the air. It is possible the refs missed this call (they missed many others.) It is possible that Denard didn't see Roundtree get knocked down (wouldn't be the first time he's misread something.) But I don't think there was evidence to make a declaration on either side of that argument.
Also, now learning this rule (thanks!) and the lack of the illegal contact rule makes me understand why we want DG as a receiver, and why Hoke is recruiting a bunch of strong, 6'3+ receivers.
I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure there is an endzone replay where you can see it. It's close for sure, but I think it was before the pass
It was a terrible no-call to take it further. It just so happens that everybody that understands that we still would have gotten our lunch money taken and our milkshake drank are right too. Go Blue fellas, the team will get better from this. Even Hoke has seen were we need to get to after that one...
Terrible call on my part to not go with something stronger than beer to drink!
The refs clearly didn't make a difference in getting our ass handed to us.
But the kick catch interference was absolutely hilarious. The return man was running forward! What is our guy supposed to do? Run away from him? I laughed when they tried to explain that one.
And Lewan getting called for a hold while a facemask penalty that a blind person could see was funny too.
Again, to reiterate for what seems like the umpteenth time, the refs had nothing to do with the result (has to be said).
WE LOST TO A DAMN GOOD FOOTBALL TEAM. GET OVER IT DUDE! There's 12 more games to go and I wouldn't doubt if that is the best team (by far) we face all year.
If all of those calls we're switched around we still lose. Maybe not as bad, but the story would still be similar. You can only worry about the things you can control; you can't control the calls, its a part of the game.
Yeah, but Floyd Mayweather may not have lost his $3mil.
Are you really asking: "could the refereeing have been better?"
If so, then the answer would be an emphatic yes.
But who expects anything much from a B12 crew in a predominantly SEC environment?
The piss-poor officiating might have changed the margin of Alabama's victory, but not the outcome of the game. At the same time, shitty officiating can lead to injuries and dangerous plays. Alabama's players made a number of blind-side helmet-to-helmet hits that our guys were lucky to get up from. Refs should be clamping down on that shit for the safety of the players whether or not it affects the outcome of the game.
Bama is obviously better. But a couple of these calls could have gone are way. If they did it would have been a closer game. But none of it was the reason we lost. We lost because we got manhandled. Needed to stop the run. 10 yards a carry for Yeldob is ridicules.
Just let folks complain. No harm. That's why God made the internet.
Ahem...Al Gore would like a word with you.
Whining about non-calls in a game that we were physically dominated is silly. These no calls wouldnt have madeva difference. Alabama stopped running their full offense after the first quarter and after they went up 31 they pretty much stopped running playaction. Saban could have beaten us by 60 had he wanted to. The refs had nothing to do with it.
If you want Michigan to upset better teams by having a better scheme become a basketball fan. Beilein will play a better team close, Hoke won't. Hoke is going to recruit well and beat teams he can physically dominate. He will have clse games with even coaching and talent, like ND, Va tech, Iowa, and be crushed by teams with better coaching schemes and players like this one, just like Lloyd was. This isnt a knock, it is what it is, most guys can't do that and he can. He's not elite and we knew that.
Brady isnt going to win games like tonight without superior talent, ahain, just like Lloyd. Lloyd's career was made by two players, Woodson and Brady. Both of those guy might be the best ever at their position and if not are hall of famers. Hoke can recruit, hopefully he finds those guys for him. He will win 8 or 9 a year, which is what the fan base wants.
Comparing Beilein to Hoke is apples to oranges. Upsets in terms of talent are far more frequent in basketball than in football, 1 player can get hot and carry a team the entire game, to make that comparison is straight lunacy. A truly sombering thought that some people only view Hoke as a 8-9 win coach when he took a team to 11 wins in just 9 months as the head coach....step away from the edge folks.
Va Tech, where he was thoroughly outcoached and Va Tech snapped defeat from the jaws of victory.
Sure there were a couple questionable calls, but if they were different I'm pretty sure Bama would have still been trying late in the game instead of taking their foot off of the pedal. Either way we were getting spanked. The game was embarrassing enough don't make a pussy thread like this.
No, this game was lost regardless so let me say.....
1 Dirty hits were a joke... 2 steps from denard and dude lays him out...that's roughing the passer not called.
2 Lewan was hit after the play was over from behind on the play he got hurt on....yeah, that's efffing low and dirty..............
3 Helmet to Helmet........ saw 3 of those that didn't get called....uhmm crable-smith anyone...
4 Lbers cannot jack a wr in route, that is a penalty and is included in the defenseless player, and yes at the beginning of the game one of the bama lbers jacked one of our wr's.....right infront of the middle ref behind the lbers...
5 Holding call on Lewan when Facemask was against bama joke...
6 Facemask by Barrett Jones, I wanna say on bigwill, nearly took his head off not called, most missed this but I know our staff will see it in tape.......
7 Lots of after the play action by the bama oline...........now some of it's football, but some of it is just low dirty play..........
there was more but I don't care to get into it..........Bama was the better team but the refs do need to make calls that are there, and know jacking a player helmet to helmet isn't just playing football, not when you are emphasizing protecting the players.
Don't blame the referees. Although there were plenty of questionable calls, if you need them to help you win then you most likely don't deserve to win.
There were a couple of penalties that were questionable but every game has those. Michigan lost because they were not nearly as good as Alabama accept it and beat Air Force.
Please delete this thread someone. We got Beat flat out. Alabama is just that damn good.
Did anyone else see the clip on one of our punts in the 1st qtr ? Our man at the bottom of the screen got drilled in the back, and the announcers said nothing... they kept playing the replay over of the return, and yet nothing.... maybe because Herbstriet was too busy with Musburgers dick in his mouth. And it was as if those two were watching another game.
roundtree def needs to get back in the slot, J. Robinson was out for a snap right? Can't tell how good he was but we need to get better outside receivers
The only one I had a problem with was the flag they picked up on the block on Demens. Dude was clearly leading with his helmet on a defenseless player. With all the focus on concussions how do you not call a clear helmet to helmet? It's not like they didn't see it because they the the flag initially.
While it would have been great if the officiating hadn't been so one-sided, especially where personal fouls were concerned, it wouldn't have made much difference. Alabama was bigger and faster than Michigan at almost every position. That is going to happen to a lot of teams who play Alabama this year.
Michigan lost to an NFL farm team that was created by gaming the system and cheating. No disgrace there.
I think there were some badly missed calls. I also feel that it made zero difference in the outcome of the game. M got flat out beat.
whine about the Countess injury. In my mind, that had a lot more impact on the game than the refs. As soon as he went down, they started picking on Avery. We knew that our D-Line was going to have trouble with the run. We thought our secondary would be very good. Without Countess, our secondary is going to look a lot more like 2010 than 2011.
They were the better team. Enough with this ref BS. Were there some missed/bad calls? Of course. Did they effect the outcome of the game? No. Teams never play a perfect game and refs never call a perfect game. That's the way it is.
there should be no posts about anyone's play last night either. Us playing terribly and the refereeing being terrible aren't mutually exclusive. It's an important aspect of the game and it deserves discussion.
Maybe Roundtree should show some heart and not get man handled play after play. Let just face the facts we were out played out coached and Alabama was way more physical than us, and when play the way they play they will get most of the calls. We need to get tougher!
I'm curious why intentional grounding wasn't called McCarron a couple times in the first half. Not that it would have changed the outcome of the game or anything, but twice he threw it into the stands from well within the tackle box while getting pressured.
All this whining about the refs is crazy. There was some blatently bad calls, but we would have still lost by 2-3 touchdowns had they made the correct calls. We need to take this beatdown, learn from it, and better ourselves moving forward. Blame Bill Martin for scheduling this disaster, Rich Rod for putting the program back 5 years, and even Fitz and Clark for screwing their teammates with the bad personal decisions they made. The goal as far as I thought for the season heading in was to win the Big10, and we are still undefeated in Big10 play. Move on and quit the nonsense whining.
People who post threads like "I'm not saying that we would have won, but the referees were terrible" are actually trying to say "We would have won if the referees were not terrible".
No. We would not have won. Or even been close.
No, there is NOTHING wrong with pointing out the obvious - the refs blew open the game with terrible, travesty non-calls.
We needed the perfect game to win or have a chance - everyone agrees on that. And you know what? We still had a small, 10% probability of being in the contest until the refs DID NOT CALL a face mask on Alabama and consequently put Denard in a 3rd and 20 - a bad circumstance that led to an interception.
I am sick of people on here saying "don't whine" and "we wouldn't have won anyway" and so on... you know what? Dirty Saban and his football factory have NO STANDARDS so we dang well should fight for every thing that puts UM in an even more unfair circumstance. It isn't whining to point out an obvious non-call that led to an INT and another HUGE swing in momentum to Alabama.
Stop whining about "not whining" and let's be united on this fact - a terrible, non-call changed the course of the game, for the worst, for UM. We needed a perfect game and the refs ensured that did not happen. They share some blame for this and the NCAA should look into why that didn't happen in their "kickoff classic".