Sorry - that's Spanish for "eat tacos."
frank beamer #1
Sorry - that's Spanish for "eat tacos."
They said they won't offer a 2015 QB till they identify their 2014 QB target.
"potential"? His tape and stature are impressive, especially for a soph.
Did he play much as a frosh, is he expected to grow above 5'9", really just learning the RB position, etc?
He seems comparable to Damien Harris and 2.5 years is a long time until he hits AA.
He was injured most of his freshman year.
His body type looks a little like Fitzgerald Toussaint, but Weber's not the stop-and-start type that Toussaint is.
better inside than Fitz (albeit different worlds) because he is more decisive and selective with cuts.
Doubt he'll run the jet/speed sweep for Borges like Cass Tech favors, but he has ample speed to turn the edge and reach the safety level.
Really advanced for a soph.
Reminds me of Doug Martin. He's a Muscle Hamster.
hope he just gets close to Martin's tough running style.
I'd say most kids grow some from the middle of the soph year on (I was an early grower and I still put on an inch after that) so it would be rare for him not to. He might not grow 3 inches, but a 5'10" or 5'11" RB isn't small.
...a breakdown of all of the Cass Tech guys who've played D1 over the past 5 years?
They've had a ton, but who's been the best? Have they had anyone make first team all-conference at the D1 level over this timespan? I can't think of any All-Americans.
Joe Barksdale has been the best. None of the other guys have been all-conference.
This is going to sound rude no matter how I say it...but then what's the big deal about CT kids?
I hate saying that about a pipeline school, an alma mater to many in my family (including my own mother) and a winning program in the state. However, I can't be the only one thinking about it.
Cass has produced player after player, but Joe Barksdale is the best? That says a lot.
When I compare to Glenville, there doesn't seem to be much of a comparison at all. (Granted a lot of Glenville's success was over 5 years ago).
If you are going to recruit Detroit you have to recruit Cass Tech. The big deal about Cass Tech is many of the most talented players in Detroit end up playing there. Cass is a virtual all star/state team.
In this day and age of specialization and with the declining population of Detroit, the top football talent in the city is getting concentrated into a few schools, with Cass Tech being the top of heap.
Kind of like back in the day when Perry Watson was attracting many of the best Bball players in Detroit. Early on Watson was getting the likes of Leslie Rockymore and Antoine Joubert, later as his success built on itself, and thru good fortune, Watson started getting elite talent, like Jalen Rose, Anderson Hunt, Voshon Leonard, Howard Eisley and probably a few others I am forgetting.
Well, you asked about the last five years...so there's Vernon Gholston before that. You're talking about Glenville like it puts out studs every year, but you're probably basing that on Ted Ginn and Pierre Woods.
Cass Tech puts out good players consistently. I'm not in love with a lot of their players, but it's nice to have a pipeline of players who can at least contribute, even if you have to get your stars from elsewhere.
I just feel like for the number of players - they don't produce anyone major. Don't get me wrong, I love Will Campbell, Thomas Gordon and we've yet to see what all of these CBs can do...but until someone has a major impact it's starting to feel like "ho-hum."
And Glenville also had Donte Whitner and Troy Smith, completely dismissed an NFL Pro Bowler and a Heisman Trophy winner.
Wasn't Vernon all big ten?
I'm beginning to think Cass Tech is the most stacked high school in america
Not even close, at all.
That's not true. Rivals looked at the schools nation-wide that produced the most Rivals 250 prospects over the last 5 years (or so) and I think Cass Tech was 5th on the list - very close to the top at least. They've had at least one Army All-American every year for something like 6 years in a row now, maybe more, and I'd be surprised if more than a few other schools can say that.
Anyone have a link?
Like I said above, when I compare Cass to other schools in terms of guys who pan out...it doesn't seem to even be close.
No, but the article was relatively recent, like in the last year.
It's true that not a lot of them have panned out, but that's not rare. Most schools don't have multiple kids head to the NFL in a short period of time. But this past year we had 2 starters on defense from Cass Tech and three more who saw some PT on special teams despite being underclassmen.
So it's not like we have multiple All Big Ten players from Cass Tech, but they are a solid group on our team. Also - the Cass Tech talent has gotten more abundant over the years. It used to be one guys a year, maybe a second who was a sleeper, and a couple of the guys were RR recruits who would probably go to Iowa if they came out now (Teric Jones, maybe even Thomas Gordon although he has overachieved his hype). But in 2012, we got 2 4-star guys from Cass Tech for the first time, and this year we have 3.
So the past isn't that indicative at this point, I would argue.
What other school(s) are you talking about?
I could name 25 schools from just Cali, Texas, and Florida that are more loaded. Now, I don't want to get into an argument about a great pipeline school. I think some of the guys we have coming in now will do big things for us. But, to say they're one of the most loaded, to me, isn't true. You could have a different view of how many schools = top schools or most loaded.
I mean there has to be 1000s of high school football teams so maybe it's unfair to say they're not one of the most loaded. But when I hear most loaded, I think of a school like St. Thomas Aquinas or De La Salle. When I think of Cass Tech, I think one of the best football programs in Michigan. When I think St. Thomas Aquinas or De La Salle, I think one of top high school programs in the nation. Huge difference there, if you get my point.
Check your facts, homey. De La Salle has produced 2 four star players since 2010 - one in 2012 and one in 2013. In the same period, Cass Tech has had six, and what looks to be many more players with some stars, though I didn't count those. They had more four star players in 2013 than De La Salle has had in the last four years combined.
In fact, before 2012, the last year De La Salle had even one 4 star player was 2004, so they went from 2005-2011 without a single one. Rivals goes back to 2002, and since then De La Salle has had 7 4+ star players, and one 5 star.
Point is, Cass Tech produces a ton of talent. For the 2014 class, they already have two four stars. De La Salle has two 2014 guys in the database, but neither of them even reports an offer. I'm not saying CT is the top school for D1 talent, but they're up there with anybody.
That was one example off of the top of my head. But fine, if you'd like I'll do research for you and debunk this. Oh btw, I don't see Cass Tech with anyone like Maurice Jones-Drew. The number one all-purpose back on Rivals. Not to mention the NFL career he's having.
You can talk about the overrated players that Cass Tech has had, but let's talk reality here. Cass Tech certainly has some guys that look like they could be good. But so far, we've had some decent guys, a highly overrated 5 star who played like a 3, and not much else. Besides that, I like how you just specifically talked about De La Salle.
But, like I said. I can shoot this down for you if you'd like. And I'm not going to talk about how many overrated players high schools have produced. I like to speak about reality when talking football, but I can show you reality if you'd like. Once again, love the guys from Cass Tech. But, no they're not up there with the schools who produce some of the top talent. Just because one team off the top of my head didn't have as highly rated guys as you'd like doesn't make a point. Especially when that school has players who actually, you know, did something worth while in college and the NFL.
And no, I won't discuss the 2013 or 14 guys because they have yet to play a down of ball and who knows, they could be world beaters. They all also could turn out to be Will Campbell's who forget to show up until senior year.
in your post that you were going to enlighten theboard with research to back up your point, and yet you provided nothing. WLA used actual data to back up what he said and all you have done is name "examples off the top of your head".
Honestly, it seems to me you jumped in a conversation and made a pretty big assumption about something you know very little about and have been proven wrong. When things like that happen it's best to just say something like "wow, I had no idea they put out talent like that" and move on. What yuo are doing just looks desparate. Of course that's just my opinion though.
I tried to edit it and it won't let me. So whatever, I'm not going to do all my research right now. It would be too long to post as a comment. I might make a diary if that would please you. The problem being he's arguing hypothetical's and I'm talking about reality. The reality is Cass has yet to produce a guy who's even good enough to make it in the NFL. Now, could one of the 2013 or 2014 guys be that good? Possibly, maybe, and probably. But, many would have said Big Will was going to be great as well.
I didn't jump in a conversation, like I said I tried editing and it said access denied. Plus, I had links in there that are not there now. So my evidence would prove over the last ten years Cass hasn't been a top 25 school for actual talent that worked out. But, if you include 2012, 2013, and 2014, you may have a debate that they're among the most loaded. The problem with that being you can't really argue hypothetically here because you never know what will happen with the players coming in.
In case someone replies to me and I can't edit my other one here's just a few I can think of that if we're making a team of recent alumni to face each other, I'd take over Cass Tech. Again, this doesn't include 2013 or 2014 guys because it's impossible to tell how they'll do. If you want to argue that, I probably would have a hard time finding a school with as many good recruits, but not as hard as you might think.
But anyways, here's some of the schools with recent alumni in college or just going to the NFL, who I believe to be more loaded. Again this is very limited research and I barely took anytime. NOT TALKING ABOUT '13 OR 14' RECRUITS.
You can change class year by changing the year in the link, where it says 2011 and it will go to whatever class year.
Carver High School(Jarvis Jones of about to be top 10 pick in the draft fame also went here, but it lists him as going to USC since he first went there before injury. But, he did attend high school here and graduated in either '09 or '10): http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/databaseresults/_/...
Henry Plant High School: James WIlder Jr., Aaron Murray, Mike Williams(a little older but the same Mike Williams who put it to Michigan), and Orson Charles(one of the top tight ends in the '12 draft): http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/databaseresults/_/...
Our Lady Of Good Counsel: Do I even need to spell this one out?
Mater Dei High School in California. If you're a football fan, you should know this one.
My last but certainly not least favorite, Long Beach Polytechnic High School. http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/databaseresults/_/...
Look - no one has claimed that Cass Tech is the very top toppest program in the country. I would agree with you that there are a handful of schools in a handful of states that are above CT, but not by much at all. Cass Tech is in that top tier. Not only that, but Cass Tech is hitting their peak right now. They don't have many NFL guys because they weren't pumping out D1 talent 5+ years ago like they are now. Before Cissoko, they only had 2 big D1 prospects, Gholston and Barksdale, and they both are in the NFL. BWC, although not as good as his Rivals billing, looks like he could make it three.
It's more about where Cass Tech is right now, which you're choosing to ignore. In 2013, CT has 5 guys committed to BCS schools and 2 more in the MAC. That's elite, no two ways about it, and 2014 looks to be the same way.
This conversation started with "should we really care that much about Cass Tech" and the answer is yes. Not because of what they produced in 2008, but because of what they're producing now.
No, that's not how this conversation started. And yes, I'm right. Until they prove something on an actual football field, you have someone's opinion that says how good they are. Now, like I've said in 5 years I hope I can look back and agree that they are incredibly loaded. I think they are coming into their own and really starting to produce legit talent. But, until I see it on the field I refuse to call them one of the most loaded.
Like the school where Jarvis Jones went, they're producing top ten pick talent. Maybe Cass Tech will get there or maybe these 4 stars will end up being special teams players for 4 years. You honestly do not know. That's my only point, and I've said it looks like they may become better. But, I also know they could all not be as good as advertised. What are the chances? Not great, but it could happen. Also, Gholston is terrible in the NFL and he's the best Cass Tech has had to offer. Again, these recruits they're getting now could be better. I'll believe it when I see it.
I think it's kind of funny that you use Jarvis Jones as an example of a kid who has found success, but then you dismiss Vernon Gholston for being terrible in the NFL...even though Jarvis Jones hasn't played a down in an NFL game.
I'm just giving examples. I'm not setting here writing a thesis paper people. I'm presenting what facts I have now. No one knows how good he'll be in the NFL. Exactly like absolutely NO ONE knows how well these '13 and '14 recruits will play. I do, however, know that Vernon is terrible in the NFL and probably only succeeded in college by cheating. But, that's baseless speculation. I'm just stating schools who have had more "loaded" teams than Cass Tech.
I'm sorry if you're all angry for me pointing out that a lot of the Cass Tech recruits haven't lived up to their billing yet, and some never will. I'm just suggesting that if you want to give me a chance to take a handful of football programs as feeder programs, I have 25-50 I'd take before Cass Tech, that are more loaded. And who have produced more proven recruits.
Again, I will say, I think the '13 and '14 probably even '15 classes at Cass Tech could all have some special guys on them. But, we don't know that for certain. He said he was beginning to think Cass Tech was one of the most loaded programs. Why because they have a guy who ran for 1700 yards and 21 touchdowns against only decent competition? To go along with some pretty good linebackers and lineman who haven't ever played a down of college football? And a ton of what have been busts and overrated cornerbacks? I mean I'm sorry if the truth hurts you guys. I just try to be real about things. If you'd actually read what I'm saying instead of being upset because I'm suggesting that Cass Tech might not be the best high school program ever(GASP!), you might understand my point.
You are presenting facts, you're dropping a few names, giving opinions and rambling. You mention Jarvis Jones's high school, but you haven't named one other kid from it.
You might not be wrong, but you're not doing a great job of convincing us so.
He provided a link of other Carver HS players. I'm not really sure what he is trying to do.
OK, I hadn't clicked the links because he didn't really say what they were for, but now that I have - none of those groups look any more impressive than Cass Tech's group. I recognize all of those schools as being big time programs, but none of those links looked any better than a Cass Tech class.
"I have 25-50 I'd take before Cass Tech,"
No, you don't. You have about one (Jarvis Jones's high school). Other than that, you really haven't given us much.
Exactly, and even that school doesn't blow CT away.
This debate started by a poster saying he thought CT was the most stacked high school in the country, and MJ14 saying "not even close, at all." Had he said "it's one of the top, but check out these other schools" everyone would probably agree.
I don't think Cass Tech is #1, but to say it's not at all close is also very wrong.
The other thing I take issue with is that the original poster wasn't saying he thought Cass Tech was the best at producing NFL talent over the last decade, he said they have the most stacked team. And based on the talent Cass Tech had this past fall (classes 2013-2016) he might actually be right.
Ok, then any real football fan will notice this and rank them in the top 25 nationally through the next years correct? Meaning we should see them consistently ranked in the top 25 by high school ranking services soon right?
I thought you said you weren't going to include 2013-2014 guys in your argument. If you use high school rankings that takes into account how the entire team did, which include guys from 2013-2015 class.
BTW, Cass Tech were state champs and ended the season as the #81 school on Rivals High top 100.
I don't even know what point you are trying to make now.
I'm saying if he wants to wait this out and see how the 2013 or 2014 kids do then I best expect one of the most loaded teams to be a top 25 team nationally. To me, if you're not top 25 or heck even top 50(they're not) nationally, you can't call yourself a loaded team. So if we're not talking college, not talking pro, and we are talking high school and they're not even in the top 50, then what in the world is your guys' definition of most loaded?
The problem seems to be we have different definitions of most loaded. I stated this before. Go ahead on negging me everyone. I can't help that many of you fail to be able to read what I'm saying.
I also know Cass Tech was state champs and you notice they still don't crack the top 50? Football in Michigan just isn't the same as in Cali, Florida, or Texas. If you plug this team into the top division in those states, I'd bet they finish somewhere in the middle of the pack. Again, baseless speculation. Does Cass ever play national games? I doubt they could stick with St. Thomas Aquinas in a game, but maybe I'm wrong.
I love it how you keep saying "any real football fan knows..." as if that's going to work.
The high school team with the most D1 talent is not always the most successful on the field, we've seen this many times before. This why there are so many years where GR teams without a single kid who can sniff the MAC beat Metro Detroit teams with kids heading to the Big Ten.
Cass Tech finished the RivalsHigh 100 at #81, and your beloved Carver isn't ranked, so I don't think that's a good indicator. De La Salle in CA is #2, though they only have 1 4-star player on the team.
But yeah, I think national publications will continue to be high on Cass Tech.
Actually one of the "most loaded" teams should not lose to those kind of teams. Hence the reason a real loaded team like De La Salle won 150+ game straight. I'd love to see Cass Tech come anywhere near that in a so much weaker state for football it's laughable to compare. They won't do it though. And now I feel like I'm knocking a great pipeline school, but I'm fine with admitting reality.
I dont agree at all with your post.
When dude said cass has to be the most loaded team, there are various things you must realize when he said that:
A. He obviously doesnt mean historically or even in the past 10 years. He means past 4 or 5 (7 or 8 if you count future classes 2013-2015)
B. hes obviously referring to the amount of D1 players they produce
C. hes not talking about performance in college
D. hes not talking about NFL success
E. he is thinking about all their 3-5 star recruits (which ESPN, Scout, Rivals, 247sports all provide)
F. He is thinking about all the big name schools such as Alabama, ND, LSU that offer their players
G. He sees the multiple players they have representing in HS allstar games
You talking about college peformance or NFL success took things way off track. Because no 1 highschool puts out NFL players or even college all americans year year after so there is actually no way to discuss a thing like that anyway.
Point A means that it is wayy too early to judge. T-rich, RSJ, LaronT, RubenLile, two at Buffalo (cass' bggest D1 class) are ONLY FRESHMAN
DelonteH, Wilcher's Son at toledo, Nelson at Illinois, JohnJackson at Western are ONLY SOPHMORE
Daniel Easterly at Missouri was Big12 freshmanAA (now redshirt SOPHMORE) Dior Mathis has been suffering from position changes which is understandable since he is very short. how much success do u expect a short athlete to have especially a 3star? Dalton Barksdale is STARTING at Buffalo
The class that really popped it off all three went to Michigan. Teric-what do you expect from som1 that toe ACL? the other 2 Tom and Will are strong contributors and Starters!
BooBoo was the shortest one!! Like I said earlier, you dont expect much from short players in any sport no matter which way you flip it. and somehow he still managed to START on your Mighty Michigan's defense.
Joe Barksdale STARTED and won championship at LSU (someone michigan dreams of beating in a football game) then went on to NFL 3rd Round and cotributes a lot to Raiders.
And that is 6 year by year recent history of Cass. And next year we will be in same predicament because IT IS TOO EARLY TO TELL. I feel like if they ever start a season that is a success.
If you go back to ESPN's top100 rankings of past HS classes, you will only recognize 10-20 names in each year from their college play & accolades. Why should Cass be held up to a higher standard than those kids which is a 20% rate of living up to hype.
And if you remember ESPN only had big will as a 3 star OT, so he has certainly lived up the the "hype"
FINAL POINTS: It is too early to talk about living up to hype
They are all not 5star or top tier 4stars, so you cant expect too much
Not one HS yearly or biyearly puts out College AA's or NFL stars so dont expect cass too
That wasnt even dude's definition of "Loaded" if it was, then yeah he's delusional lol.
Actually you literally have no idea what he's talking about because the original poster I commented to hasn't responded. So yay for baseless speculation, that could be completely and utterly wrong on your part. But, it's fine for you guys to speculate and make up whatever you want, while I try proving things factually.
I've said I'm willing to admit I'm wrong. We clearly have two definitions(we being me and most of you guys) about what one of the most loaded means. I think it means you're in the very top group like 25 at worst. I also think it has to do with what the players have actually accomplished after high school. Meaning you at least have to look at that and take it into account. If you're pumping out overrated players every year, then yeah it's going to make you look better.
So, if they start rating three stars from other high schools as 5 stars and high 4 stars just because, does that make them more loaded? Or are we going to actually look at some of the real evidence of what they go on to do? Because, isn't the point of them being relavent to Michigan, them actually panning out and living up to their billing?
Also, please get out with the short argument. Barry Sanders was probably 5'8" with his cleats on, on his tiptoes. Then you've got Maurice-Jones Drew, Darren Sproles, Joe Morris, Gary Clark, Bob Sanders, Wes Welker, Warrick Dunn, Steve Tasker, Steve Smith, Darrell Green, Ray Rice, Antoine Winfield, and should I go on?
BTW, I also said it's too early to tell about a lot of it. But, obviously you guys forgot to actually read what I'm saying.
SMH at the very end of my post I said if he did mean post high school success then he is delusional. you do not know how to read very well. Also, you dont know what dude meant either so we are all speculating, smarta$$.
You didnt adress any of my points except the short part:
You named like 20 dudes and runnigbacks dont count because they are all short lol smarta$$. so you naming only 10 successful short non-RB's out of the thousands of NFL players proves my point even more that YOU SHOULDNT EXPECT MUCH FROM A SHORT ATHLETE. lol
and those national rankings of HS teams have nothing to do with the players. Moreso the coaches and history. If you really think they have the time to actually scout teams and size them up and properly rank them then you are delusional. heck, the BCS doesnt even work.
Im sure if you put Cass' 2011 senior class of 012 team against these top teams they will do fine. Move them to a top division in Texas, Cal, or Florida they will be great. Because they have premier talent, speed and size.
"I also think it has to do with what the players have actually accomplished after high school. Meaning you at least have to look at that and take it into account. If you're pumping out overrated players every year, then yeah it's going to make you look better.
"So, if they start rating three stars from other high schools as 5 stars and high 4 stars just because, does that make them more loaded? Or are we going to actually look at some of the real evidence of what they go on to do? Because, isn't the point of them being relavent to Michigan, them actually panning out and living up to their billing?"
its too early to say something like this at all is my whole point!!! and because it is so early thats how we know his definition of "STACKED" obviosly wasnt about post high school success and you shouldnt mention it at all!! because before 2008 cass only had 1 D-1 player a year!!
Like I sad before, NOT 1 HIGHSCHOOL PUMPS OUT NCAA ALL AMERICANS OR NFL DRAFT PICKS EVERY YEAR so why is Cass any different??
"I also think it has to do with what the players have actually accomplished after high school. Meaning you at least have to look at that and take it into account."
This is a contradiction because most of the top HS teams only have a couple D1 players and they dont accomplish nada after high school. Soooooo........ yeah you get the point
That kind of helps my point, not one school is going to produce an All-American every year. But, some produce better than Cass. I would say there's a select few schools that produce better and they're on the top tier. Cass would be near the very top of the second tier in what I view as most loaded. If you want to say they're middle of the first tier and include more, then sure go ahead. But, at the end of the day you're really just arguing "tiers" of most loaded with me, if you see what I'm saying?
So basically it's like we're arguing does Cass Tech belong in the top tier of high schools that produce top talent? To me, no, but I have a select few on that list. It sounds like you guys have a bigger first tier, so instead of Cass being very near the top of the second tier, they're in the middle of the first to you. Make more sense?
Edit: So maybe my original post of not even close is a bit unfair. Maybe they're closer than what my comment seems to suggest and that's why people are upset? Not even could mean like just a middle of the pack high school football program out of like 10,000+, which was not what I intended it to mean.
I can agree with that top of 2nd tier. they still have more to prove as far as state titles but in time
Yeah and I can see them becoming a first tier team easily within 5-10 years if they keep going at the same rate. That's all I'm saying. At least we can agree, which is nice since you're the casstechconnect! Btw, welcome to the board! It's good to have you! I don't know if you're actually connected in some way to Cass Tech, but it seems like it, so it's great to have you. And again, I hope especially you don't think I'm trying to be disrespectful to a great program! I love that we have Cass Tech as a pipeline school!
yeah I understand. and yeah, lets just say im very very close to the team. and thanks!!
Well, it's great to have you here with us. Look forward to seeing more Cass Tech players suit up for the University of Michigan for a long time to come. I'm very excited about some of the prospects coming in, as well as some of the guys already on the team. Plus, Delonte, Thomas, and Royce Jenkins-Stone are all 3 awesome guys in general. I met Delonte a few years back and then within the last year met Thomas and Royce as well. Thomas is absolutely awesome actually, really chill guy.