FWIW. Michigan doesn't seem inclined to get re-involved.
Carlos Hyde video
It's not showing up? It's showing up on mine
Also on mgo.licio.us
Eh, oh well
A great poet by the name of Sugafree feels the same way on this subject he say
" ill never hit a woman but ill slap the shit outta a bitch" ..so maybe Carlos Hyde was just taking the advice of a great poet...
Anyone who quotes the great pimp Suga free gets infinite props from me. Why u Bullshittin', great song, great album really, DJ Quik and Cold 187um, most underrated producers ever.
I didn't think anyone outside of Cali knew about Sugafree
Will have to quote Big Daddy from Django Unchained during the horse rally...
At this point whether he hit her or not, has nothing to do with our season. Sick of stuff posted about Ohio and or Urban Meyer. I'd rather he play so we can kick his ass on November 30.
I wasn't saying he hit her or not. Just trying to get some discussion going until we get our next "HELLO" post
Again, who cares?
Wouldn't expect anything less from an Ohio player. Who cares if he slapped or punched or whatever, you don't hit or slap a woman because she won't do what you want. You never put your hands on a woman. Makes me furious this douche bag has no legal issues coming his way.
I mean really? She made it physical first when she took a cheap swing at him as it looked like he was turning away. He slapped her back. Then both parties left. Over and done with and as far as I know, no actual injuries inflicted (or previous history of violence between the two).
Morally I don't condone it - he should have turned the other cheek and walked away, but he didn't initiate the violence and frankly the whole incident was so minor that anybody going to jail over it would be really, really stupid. If it was two guys or two women we'd be wondering why the hell anyone even called the cops.
The "don't ever ever touch women, even if they hit you first" thing has so much macho sexism tied up with it that it might just be more degrading than treating this as we would an incident between two males or two females. Newsflash: women are full human beings capable of initiating physical violence. Acting like they aren't isn't "respect", it's condescension.
It's 2013 - can't we change it to "don't lay hands on anybody, except in defense of yourself or others"?
Well, some of us were raised with respect. We're not talking about a scrawny little man against a female mma fighter. If a woman has a weapon or the ability to whip ya, defend yourself. He should have walked away. I've been cuffed a couple times by females and walking away worked just fine. It has nothing to do with being macho and everything to do with ones character. I'm not judging him for it, people make bad choices and the hope is we learn from them.
On a separate note, did you get beat up by the girls at school? Lol just kidding buddy.
That's why I said I thought he was morally culpable and should have walked away, and that I believe you should never lay hands on ANYBODY if you don't need to to defend yourself.
P.S. You're not my buddy, guy!
Didn't really bother watching it, so I don't really have much of an opinion either way.
Why is everyone being so sanctimonious as if Michigan players have never assaulted a woman. Adrian Arrington assaulted his girlfriend and was actually charged if I recall correctly and he was never dismissed from the team.
A 3 game suspension is plenty for an isolated incident of this severity. Relax everyone.
and eventual punishment (I think, unless he did something else):
Basically he and his girlfriend had an argument. She was trying to stop him from driving after drinking and took the keys. He pulled her from the car and took the keys back. She got a few scratches in the process.
While this is different from the Hyde incident, it is similar in a way as well with the dropped charges and subsequent team discipline to teach a life lesson.
As much as I think Urban is slimey, he's navigated this one in a fair and reasonable way.
We should move on...
Honestly, I think the Frank Clark case should have been handled more severely.
Or does it look like a seemingly weak swing caught her enough to make her legs go wobbly?
Video doesnt' look that bad, but he still hit a woman. Regardless of Urban's response to this, it will shape his future at Ohio and the future of the kids he "leads". If his punishment is too severe, he may scare away other talented kids with a tendancy towards trouble. If his punishment is too lenient, he'll continue to sign these kids, but will develop a culture in which kids aren't afraid to step out of line. I, personally, like that Coach Hoke has dismissed Stonum, suspended Hagerup for a season, suspended Hawthorne and Floyd for the Outback Bowl, etc. I also like that Michigan recruits talented kids with great character. It's an interesting debate - win at all costs v. win with character. I believe this area (central Ohio) won't tolerate regular player arrests in exchange for victories and championships, but we'll see.
Call me old (I'm not that old), but the most disturbing part of that video is dudes watching/pointing/yelling at scantily dressed college girls shaking their asses on a stage. I'd hate to see my daughter on that stage, she ain't going to college. Ever.
Keep in mind that the Hagerup and Stonum suspensions came after repeated offenses - as far as I know Hyde hasn't gotten in trouble for anything similar in the past.
Frank Clark got 1 game for pleading guilty to a felony.
I agree that Hoke seems to be targeting high character guys and that this is a good thing, but there's still enough glass in our house that we ought to avoid throwing stones.
Not condoning hitting a woman but she did hit him first and it seemed like more of a reaction than anything.
I guess I was just raised differently than some of the people on this blog but I was always taught that if a woman hits you, you turn around and walk away. There is NO excuse to hit a woman
You are apparently condescending and macho sexist for acknowledging your ratio of testosterone to estrogen far exceeds any woman's and acting conscientiously about it. For using your biologically--irrefutably--superior strength to protect women instead of attack them.
Second thought, I'll take your respect and thoughtfulness for a far better, more considerate 2013. I'm pretty sure most women will be grateful.
Jeebus I'm not saying it was a good thing or that he shouldn't be suspended. He reacted to violence with violence when it was not necessary to do so, and that's bad. I also think he probably said something nasty to the woman before she swung at him, and that's bad (although not illegal).
But unless he actually caused a serious injury, he shouldn't go to jail, and there's no non-sexist way to spin what happened into a scenario where Hyde committed a crime but the woman did not. You do not get one free assault just because you're XX instead of XY. And swinging your arm at someone like that is by definition assault. Ultimately, if you think Hyde should go to jail, you're arguing that Hyde should be legally responsible for his actions but the woman involved should not be - can't you see how enshrining that into the justice system would be just a wee bit condescendingly sexist?
I get the sense that a lot of you guys would be totally okay with this if the person he smacked was male, even a much smaller one - "That scrawny dude got what was coming to him - he should know that that's what you get for disrespectin' a guy! But I would NEVER hit a woman, because she's LESS than me".
THAT'S what I think is macho sexism, not the idea that hitting physically smaller people is morally wrong. It's like the difference between saying "You shouldn't sexually harass women because it's wrong to disrespect people like that" and saying "You shouldn't sexually harass women because women are too emotionally delicate to handle sexual talk".
You seem to think I'm giving football players free reign to smack women around. I'm not - but let's see this for what it was, a brief fight between two people who should BOTH know better than to get violent. Hyde gets punished in the football world because he's a representative of OSU and should be held to a higher standard. I think that is entirely appropriate.
Serious question - which do you think is worse, this incident or the MSU incident where a group of them beat up a bunch of guys. In both cases you have someone(s) getting physical with someone(s) substantially weaker. But I'd say the MSU incident was worse because it was premeditated while Hyde was clearly provoked. You apparently would disagree and believe that the woman's actions leading up to Hyde's punch/slap are irrelevant - can you articulate a reason why other than "girls are weak "?
tl;dr version: Hyde should be suspended but not jailed. Hitting women is bad, because hitting people is bad. Assuming that the acceptability of hitting someone is primarily gender dependent is, by definition, sexist.
I don't see where anyone said the girl wasn't in the wrong. We were just stating he was in the wrong. The woman should be in trouble also. We were just stating that there is no excuse to hit a woman
The unstated corollary to "there's no excuse to hit a woman" is "there's sometimes an excuse to hit a man" (otherwise you wouldn't specify one way or the other). There's a definite subtext of some chauvinism there. And that's what I was going off on. I can't count the number of times in this and other threads on Hyde where the badness of hitting a woman, in particular, was emphasized. Respect for others should be gender neutral, is all I'm trying to say.
The initial post I replied to upthread stated that he was "furious this douchebag is not facing any legal issues". Several other posters in the previous thread were also indignant the charges were not pressed and implied that the girl must have been pressured or bought off. So I think my inference that many people are excusing the girl's actions is reasonable. Certainly I've seen no one seriously suggesting she should go to jail or be charged like they believe Hyde should be.
It's also been repeatedly implied that my upbringing was inadequate for taking a gender neutral stance on not hitting people. And that I was beat up by girls in school. So you'll have to excuse my annoyance.
no offense to you because I find you a pretty darn good poster, but your insinuation that men not hitting women is in some way sexist just blows my mind. Just because I have no issue with a man hitting a man but do have an issue with a man hitting a woman doesn't make me sexist. I think that is what people are taking issue with you about, not that you don't think Hyde should face criminal charges (I agree completely with that).
I don't want to rehash all of what was said on the other threads, they are there if anyone wants to look, but IMHE there is a distinct difference between defending yourself against a female who is attacking you and attacking them back. One is completely okay, the other is one of the worst things I think a man can do to a woman.
Also, I think there are definitely times when a men hitting men is appropriate. I was a fighter in my CHL days and when I'd fight it was two consenting men (or boys) fighting each other. We weren't always the same size or strength, but we agree to the fight. I think that is a whole lot different than a guy attacking someone who has no wish to fight. You implied that if the situation with Hyde changed slightly and it was another man, we would all be sayiing he got what he deserved but I, for one, would never condone a man attacking anyone who has no wish to engage in a physical atlercation.
I don't know...I'm just struggling to express why I don't for one second believe I am sexist in any way for believing men should never hit women. Defend yourself if necessary...but there are myriad ways to do that without becoming the aggressor and hitting them back. I'm done with this debate now.
You are putting words into everyone's mouths and assuming a lot. Most of your arguments were never brought up on here.
You did what. Slapped a chick. C'mon Man !!