Cam Newton - Rush to judgement?
Before we kick Cam Newton out of college football and give both Auburn and maybe Florida the death penalty for their involvement in the Cam Newton affair might I remind my fellow board members that the media had an absolute field day at our expense following practice-gate. Here are some of the more lurid headlines one can find with a simple Google search:
"Why practice when you can cheat? - Bleacher Report
"Michigan football - the collapse of a storied program" - Opposing Views.com
"Time may not be on Michigan's side" -New York Times
"Massive cheating allegations against University of Michigan football" -Syndicate Times
"Three reasons why the Michigan cheating scandal is serious" - Bleacher Report
"Michigan football players confirm widespread cheating allegations against program" - ESPN
FWIW....all of these were published within 30 days of the initial Freep report as everyone jumped on the Michigan is cheating bandwagon. We were absolutely hammered nationally as a renegade program with complete disregard for the student-athletes on the team. The truth, however, turned out to be not quite as juicy as those that wanted to bring the program down had hoped.
To be clear here - I am not defending Cam Newton nor either program alleged to have involvement in his recruitment or class schedule. I simply asking for restraint in coming to a presumption of guilt based upon stories published on the Internet.
EDIT - I have no idea how those damn bleacher report banner ads got stuck against the bottom of my post. I blast them for God's sake so there is no way I want to give them any ad space on my time. If anyone knows how to get rid of them please let me or the mods know.
EDIT - Thank you whoever got those down.
November 9th, 2010 at 11:35 AM ^
What is this "restraint" you speak of.? We all know where there's the tiniest whisp of smoke there's an apocalyptic forest fire to be found...
November 9th, 2010 at 11:36 AM ^
True, but we did commit violations, as the probation shows. Accidental or not. With Cam Newton, he has stolen property, appears to have cheated on numerous occasions, and may have tried to solicit money from a college. With only one of these, I can say there may be a rush to judgement, but all suggest a trend. So does he deserve the benefit of the doubt? Maybe only in the legal system
November 9th, 2010 at 11:42 AM ^
You mean, like, the only thing that actually matters? There's a reason why the Federal Rules of Evidence only allow in evidence of past wrongdoings in very limited circumstances. Jurors are all too willing to "see a trend" of unrelated crimes and convict a guy or simply convict for a current crime to punish for past issues.
Each incident stands on its own merits. He's guilty when he is proven to be guilty on each separate incident.
November 9th, 2010 at 11:47 AM ^
but those limitations don't extend to the realm of public judgement
November 9th, 2010 at 12:18 PM ^
The "realm of public judgment" is exactly what the OP is talking about! I'm willing to guess that none of us are NCAA investigators or school officials at Auburn or Florida. He's explicitly saying to show some restraint when you (i.e. "the public") try to pass judgment on Newton with limited and unsubstantiated evidence.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:40 PM ^
I am not personally passing judgement, but he has previously dealt with the court over the stolen laptop fiasco. He only avoided being charged due to the completion of a pretrial program. Now with that piece of published and substantiated data, as well as the addition of not one, but two claims really can allow the public to form an opinion that in fact can be based on some factual evidence. In addition, the people with one of the claims are known and not anonymous sources, and so they are putting their reputation out there with these claims.
I am not saying it is right or wrong, but just that with his record, does he deserve or get the benefit of the doubt from the public?
November 9th, 2010 at 11:52 AM ^
Ok, I highly disagree that the legal system is the only thing that matters. It is the only place that can put you in jail, make you pay restitution, give you the death penalty, etc etc etc but it is not the only system that matters. The court of public opinion is a big deal as well. Look at how OJ Simpson is looked at (prior to the sports merchandise scandal), he got off from murder, but was still looked at very negatively. Look at Barry Bonds or Roger Clemons (still not convicted of anything yet).
My point is that there is a black cloud over Cam Newton and it will be there until he is proven innocent or that the charges against him were proven ridiculous.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:34 PM ^
the OP's point is that the public opinion black cloud is premature and unfair. The fact that the public is generally stupid and willing to jump on anything scandalous doesn't really matter. The point is that the public should act more like the legal system in assessing situations like this.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:51 PM ^
There should be world peace, but that doesn't mean there is world peace. An argument of this nature usually doesn't take into account the facts of the situation. This has been a rudimentary judicial mechanism for centuries and will probably remain as such, just with the ability to reach out farther and faster
November 9th, 2010 at 3:40 PM ^
Sure, but also under the Federal Rules of Evidence, any testimony given by Cam could be impeached by his reputation in the community for dishonesty. Had he not plead down the obstruction of justice charge, I believe that he could also have been impeached because that was a crime involving dishonesty.
So, while the law does not allow the prosecution to say that he likely did this because he is a bad guy, the fact that he his prior conduct may have given him a reputation for dishonesty is legally relevant.
November 9th, 2010 at 4:14 PM ^
Character evidence could only be brought against him if the defense opens the door by leading with testimony of Cam's good character. Given his past criminal history, I'm guessing the defense's strategy wouldn't be to call up character witnesses to talk about how good of a person Cam is.
November 9th, 2010 at 5:03 PM ^
True, if you are talking about character evidence as substantive evidence. When it comes to impeachment, however, I believe that bad reputation for truthfulness, criminal convictions and bad acts that reflect adversely on the witness's character for truthfulness are fair game, whether or not you open the door. If you appear as a witness, you can be impeached.
November 9th, 2010 at 11:37 AM ^
Stolen laptop dumped in trash after phone call with Winston Wolf = Newton guilty mofo of everything else.
Cam saves kittens from burning tree = Tebow Saintly Heights of do no wrong.
I have been a little harsh myself but human nature is what it is.
November 9th, 2010 at 11:39 AM ^
I'll withold judgment until facts are revealed. Is it bad that I'd treat Pryor differently? Probably, but I definitely would.
November 9th, 2010 at 11:43 AM ^
makes your point irrelevant. I stopped reading there.
Cam Newton's article was from Fox Sports (with MSN, Scout), which deserves more respect than the bleacher report and Opposing Views.com.
November 9th, 2010 at 11:48 AM ^
How about the New York Times and ESPN? Last I heard those two were considered fairly credible media outlets.
November 9th, 2010 at 1:33 PM ^
They are?
November 9th, 2010 at 7:13 PM ^
I question their voracity.
November 9th, 2010 at 11:54 AM ^
It's not like one or two things Newton allegedly did. Leaving aside the allegations re soliciting money, what happened at Florida, if true, was massive academic fraud, and also an arrest for theft.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:02 PM ^
If i was defending him all your points would have merit. But i'm not. The words you chose confirm my point "leaving aside allegations" (nothing's been proven) and "if true, was massive academic fraud" (what if not true?).
Again, not saying he's innocent of anything. Just asking for my fellow Wolverines to remember what it felt like when the stories I referenced we're hitting the internet and we were the ones on the defensive. Guilty until proven innocent sucks.
November 9th, 2010 at 2:02 PM ^
Yes, he deserves the benefit of the presumption of innocence. However, given the multiplicity of alleged wrongdoing, all of the allegations should be thoroughly investigated by the NCAA, as they were with Michigan.
These issues are potentially far more serious that what the Freep "discovered." Did Auburn pay Newton? Can a student-athelete be admitted with serious academic fraud charges pending at another school? Was this not disclosed by Newton?
I also think that Auburn's purportedly pious outrage is telling. Michigan's Athletic Director did not issue breathless denials ('outraged, yes, outraged that anyone would speak badly about Cam Netwon'). Michigan promptly convened an internal investigation, and cooperated with the NCAA; and the allegations were not as serious in Michigan's case.
To me, this is different from the Freep Jihad because of the severity of the allegations, and the crass way in which Auburn has reacted to the situation.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:05 PM ^
...whether these allegations are true or not, the timing is of this story is suspicious. Supposedly, the SEC has been aware of these charges for over year. Why is it until Newton becomes a Heisman front-runner that the story breaks? There may be a reasonable explanation, but on the surface it does strike me as perfect timing... or perfectly imperfect timing depending on how you look at it.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:52 PM ^
supporter to tarnish and distract Newton and Auburn in anticipation of the Iron Bowl. If it is bad for Auburn it is good for Alabama is the thought. Of course, there are probably another 10 suspects (Vandy gets a pass) as to who may have leaked this. That's the way they do things in the SEC.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:16 PM ^
Kudos to the OP. I think the board has been all to quick to forget how Michigan got hosed by anonymous sources and an over-zealous media.
And I'm also with the OP in that I'm not saying Newton didn't do anything, but I also agree that at this point it's a little too early to unleash the e-hounds. There'll be an investigation and we can all opine from there.
November 9th, 2010 at 4:26 PM ^
Auburn can sort its own business out. I'm in the business of promoting and defending my school, which happens to be Michigan, and in helping fight our two-year battle with a lazy, hostile and credulous press corps.
Cam Newton's story might be a huge problem for Auburn. Or not. But if the stories about Newton so far turn out to have been as badly reported as the Rosenberg/Free Press story, then it's another disgrace. I'll wait until the story gets clearer.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:19 PM ^
We already know that everyone murders and steals from you and me, whatever.
We can still look up to him, though, no matter what he does, and that's what's important.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:21 PM ^
I don't recall a ton of Cam Newton bashing on here. Clearly there are questions and the NCAA is investigating, which is exactly what they should do. Who are you criticizing?
November 9th, 2010 at 12:29 PM ^
There were two, maybe three posts over the past couple of days where there were a LOT of comments like "should Auburn be allowed to play in the MNC game?" or "Should Cam Newton be allowed to win the Heisman" and sfuff like that. I sure didn't read very many people saying "wait a second.....nothing's been prove at all yet". And given our VERY recent history with the internet it seemed more than a bit hypocritical to me.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:28 PM ^
I see them as well. Weird.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:32 PM ^
I'm not going to lie, I agree with the OP whole heartedly, but almost had to take a stand against him on principle after seeing those ads.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:43 PM ^
As God is my witness I had nothing to do with those ads. They are driving me crazy as well and I have no idea how or why they are there.
November 11th, 2010 at 12:35 PM ^
For me, anyway.
Looks like they are the banners that are supposed to go at the top of the site, but for some reason they are being dropped into your post.
The real lesson here, no one ever mention BR for any reason ever again. I know that will fix a lot of my ails.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:44 PM ^
what are the ads for? For example, are they apparently related to the poster? They are blocked by my system. Clearly bad form and not an idea we can allow to take root.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:31 PM ^
a couple of years ago I was nothing but tolerant of most programs. After what Michigan has been put through the last two years, y'll need to find some battens for your hatches as far as I'm concerned. May the scores be 60-0, may the investigations be numerous, and may all of your local papers hire reporters who once worked for the Freep.
Do I sound vindictive?.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:33 PM ^
I think I double-clutched the mouse, I smell burning friction material.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:34 PM ^
People in the media are overreacting, but at the same time there is quite a bit of smoke surrounding the guy right now and people figure there must be some fire as well. It is maybe a sad commentary on the state of college football, but after all the recent player scandals you are presumed guilty until proven otherwise. I'm not for throwing the guy out of college football or setting the War Eagle of fire because of allegations, but at the same time he does have some negative history and so any suspected transgressions are going viewed through that prism.
As for the talk about an SEC conspiracy, I don't buy it. The laptop issue was known for years, and the fact that UF didn't immediately release his potential cheating claims has at least as much to do with academic privacy issues as anything else. It sounds like the NCAA has been ramping up their enforcement arm in recent years, and so universities are being asked to release information they may have kept silent about in years past. I'm not condoning the witch hunt nature of some of the claims, but considering all of the recent issues, I'm also not surprised about the response.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:35 PM ^
I agree with the OP that it is too early to judge yet, but if those banner ads are his, I think he should face the banhammer. It's bad enough that he is trying to make money off of Brian, but his taste in what to shill is even worse.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:45 PM ^
Again....i have nothing to do with those ads. If anyone knows how to make them go away please tell me. I hate them too.
November 9th, 2010 at 1:00 PM ^
Ironically enough they are for the Bleacher Report which is one of the media sources I target as having mistakenly singled us out for reproach without waiting for the facts to come in.
I encourage the Mods to delete the ads if they can and i f not the entire post. The LAST thing I want to do is encourage the Bleacher Report.
Thank you for taking those down whoever did it.
November 9th, 2010 at 1:08 PM ^
he evaded real criminal prosecution (having 3 felonies dropped) because he was a Florida football player. If this was you or I or our children the case would have proceeded to trial.
He left Florida before being kicked out for cheating yet he and his father (the preacher) both lied about it being about him having to be the backup QB.
Somehow I am more apt to believe that he is an unsavory character lacking any real integrity than giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Wasn't it on this blog where it was found out that one of the churches his father preaches at was in need of dire repair and miraculously came up with the money to pay for the repairs.
With Michigan's issue regarding practice it was so over blown it was ridiculous and pales in comparison to Cam Newton's situation. I certainly hope he doesn't win the Heisman because integrity should play a large role in attaining that honor.
November 9th, 2010 at 1:58 PM ^
"Wasn't it on this blog where it was found out that one of the churches his father preaches at was in need of dire repair and miraculously came up with the money to pay for the repairs."
No, it was on this blog where that accusation was made without even a shrad of support evidence to justify the claim.
November 9th, 2010 at 3:00 PM ^
http://www.times-herald.com/Local/Pastor-says-church-can-meet-building-code-within-6-months-862469
From October 2009. Timing in just a coincidence though.
Newton told the council the building can be brought to code "inside of six months." He also said the church has the money in hand to proceed with the work.
November 9th, 2010 at 4:33 PM ^
Um...ok. I read the story. It says the building is a piece of shit that needs lots of work and Newton says they can get it fixed in 6 months. So?
Yeah....you really got em on that one! Obviously any Pastor claiming to be able to bring a building up to code inside of six months MUST be getting illegal monies from somebody. Is that the conclusion you drew from the article?
I hate to say it guys but some of you are doing a wonderful job of proving my point in the initial post.
November 9th, 2010 at 1:56 PM ^
Fire thats all!
November 9th, 2010 at 2:31 PM ^
I'll continue not caring until the NCAA decides on it.
November 9th, 2010 at 2:34 PM ^
I'd love to see the NCAA drop the hammer on Cam.
- Stole laptops @ Florida
-Cheated @ Florida x2
-Accepted $200,000 to attend Auburn
But the real shame is how great of a person on and off the field he could have been at MSU with his track record..
November 9th, 2010 at 7:25 PM ^
Well, he didn't actually steal the laptops...he bought a stolen laptop...then threw it out the window when the cops came to his door. Not a saint, but not exactly a demon either.
November 9th, 2010 at 7:52 PM ^
True enough, but the fact that he accepted what he knew to be a stolen laptop is what bugs me. And chances are he very well may have played more of a role than just handing over the cash for it.
Most of all the allegations invovling money bother me most. Not in the sense of Newton or this years Heisman race but, I'd hate to see the day that motives for deciding where to play your sport at is based on which university will give you the biggest pay day (AKA: professional sports)
November 9th, 2010 at 3:34 PM ^
Most of this boils down to how everyone is a hypocrite (myself included). It's infuriating but that's just the way it is. Things will never be the same. Damn you Pac! The other reason for the rush to judgment by the board is the Heisman and Denard. I think that sums it up nicely.