Is Ben Herbert making Michigan players faster?
They say "you can't teach speed." But we now have two significant examples of players who appear to have significantly increased their speed under strength & conditioning coach Ben Herbert.
Case one: D.J. Turner. When D.J. committed to Michigan in 2018, he had recorded a 4.63 40-yard dash time at the Opening Regionals. Scouting reports said that he needed to "improve his speed." Now, according to Bruce Feldman (presumably via Michigan's coaches), Turner has recorded a 4.28 40 time and is the fastest player on the team (alongside Roman Wilson, whose Opening Regional 40 time was 4.37).
Case two: J.J. McCarthy. At his press conference yesterday, J.J. said that his high school 40 time was 4.8, and that he is now under 4.5. He credited Ben Herbert for the improvement:
Yeah, to be honest with you, in high school, I was 4.8s, if that. I don't know when it happened with Coach Herb, but he got my speed down to like 4.5s, 4.4s. I want to say I’m 4.4s, but we haven't put it on time yet. But yeah, it just kind of came naturally, which is hard work and always doing the right things mechanic-wise. In order to get fast, you got to run fast. And we've been doing a lot of that here for sure.
These are remarkable improvements.
September 7th, 2022 at 9:14 AM ^
Apologies, I meant to link to the 247 article for the transcript of JJ's press conference.
September 7th, 2022 at 9:17 AM ^
Yes, yes he is. Give that man some STAYING money!
He's turning everyone into five-stars.
September 7th, 2022 at 9:20 AM ^
It's not uncommon for guys to get into a college strength and conditioning program, and gain speed, not to mention just getting older and your body maturing.
September 7th, 2022 at 9:28 AM ^
I immediately had this thought. Also, discrepancies in timings from HS level to what a college is reporting can come down to the venue, hand vs laser, etc. etc.
Then, I wondered why I was even questioning the premise of the OP. It's clear Ben Herbert is a gamechanger based on comments/peer reviews etc. For all intents he's a plus up. So, why am I questioning the premise of the question? In fact, I like the idea that it's true.
So, yes! Ben Herbert is absolutely making players faster! ... And if JJ ever gets caught from behind... FIRE BEN HERBERT! :)
September 7th, 2022 at 10:41 AM ^
I was lamenting that we didn't get the original Stanfard S&C guy. But Herbert has exceeded all expectations.
He is doing a hell of a lot better than Gittleson toward the end of his career.
September 7th, 2022 at 1:49 PM ^
And better than Barwis. He was mostly hype.
September 7th, 2022 at 10:53 AM ^
Yeah, track stars get faster, right? A tiny bit counterintuitive, matter of seconds and refinements, but that's why you train.
September 7th, 2022 at 12:06 PM ^
"gain speed, not to mention just getting older and your body maturing"
So I should be reaching Usain Bolt speed any day now...
September 7th, 2022 at 1:16 PM ^
Yup, just join a college strength and conditioning program ;)
September 7th, 2022 at 4:01 PM ^
Oh, sure. Get my hopes up then add some little technicality.
September 8th, 2022 at 10:27 AM ^
By that logic, I should be at ludicrous speed by now!
September 7th, 2022 at 12:43 PM ^
Exactly. The "you can't teach speed" thing refers to people essentially having an individual limit to how fast they can run but you can absolutely help your body reach that limit and optimize performance with strength and conditioning.
Most kids will improve their speed somewhat in a high level college strength and conditioning program (if that's the goal as opposed to gaining a bunch of weight). So yes, Ben Herbert is making guys faster and it would be a huge fail if he weren't. Maybe he's doing it a bit better than the average S&C coach but the baseline is some improvement.
September 7th, 2022 at 4:54 PM ^
Yes for sure, but having a Mid 4.6 guy drop down to a sub 4.3 is a drastic change! That’s the equivalent of Josh Allen start running like Deion Sanders in the matter of a few years. We’ll see at the combine for DJ but I’ll give this 3 fakes out of five.
September 7th, 2022 at 10:58 PM ^
I mean dj was in the hip pocket of the wr's of the team they beat 42-27. Man is fast. If you have a bad start or can't get out of the blocks that will really affect your 40 time. That's teachable, which if he wasn't running track and just playing football it's a skill.
September 7th, 2022 at 5:08 PM ^
If that’s the case, I should be running a 3.8 by now.
September 7th, 2022 at 5:12 PM ^
It is most decidedly uncommon for players to go from the 4.6s to the sub 4.3s! Which is the contention they're making for DJ.
JJ saying he has also dropped .3-.4 seconds off his 40 would be remarkable as well, but only like 6 guys at the last NFL Combine were sub 4.3. It would be quite a feat of strength & conditioning if true.
Roman seemed to be hedging & possibly toeing the company line when he agreed Turner was now as fast as him, as stated by Harbaugh. I didn't buy it then, and frankly still don't!
September 7th, 2022 at 9:20 AM ^
Yes, but a lot of players get faster in college. Sauce Gardner ran a sub 4.8 in high school and just went 4th overall.
September 7th, 2022 at 10:25 AM ^
4.8 hand-timed with a sundial.
September 7th, 2022 at 12:00 PM ^
Yes players often get faster in college with growth, time devoted to training, nutrition etc. BUT s&c coaches, and even sport coaches in general, CAN get in the way of that. Everything from teaching incorrect technique, improper management of volume/fatigue/workload, and even just not prioritizing the right needs of the athlete.
at the very least, Herbert is not in the way. Likely he is above replacement level coach.
September 7th, 2022 at 9:28 AM ^
No, but the fog is getting thicker!
September 7th, 2022 at 10:43 AM ^
This guy gets it!!
September 7th, 2022 at 9:36 AM ^
Derrick Moore is already looking like Senior year Taco, imagine him getting faster!
September 7th, 2022 at 11:24 AM ^
Coach Jackson, is that you?
September 7th, 2022 at 2:18 PM ^
I’m back baby!!
September 7th, 2022 at 9:45 AM ^
One thing about high school 40 times is that some kids never practice starting out of the blocks (per se), and some coaches don't know how to teach it. It's not hard to run a 4.8 if you have 4.6 speed but can't get out of the blocks.
When our HS team did testing this summer, we had horrible 40 times. Like the worst 40 times we've had as a group in a long time.
Why? Well, due to some issues with facilities (a new track, etc.), we didn't really have a place where we could work on running forties. Our kids didn't suddenly get slower. It's just that when we got a chance to time them, their starting mechanics were atrocious, they were off balance, etc.
September 7th, 2022 at 9:48 AM ^
The point isn't that the players are getting faster, but how much faster. Dropping 0.3+ off your 40 time is very unusual, but we're seeing it in multiple players. The DL looked faster, too. Give it up for Ben, he's doing God's work.
September 7th, 2022 at 9:50 AM ^
You absolutely can teach speed, I do this with youth athletes everyday.
Running fast is a function of efficient mechanics and force production into the ground. Mechanics can be drilled until they becomes automatic. Increases not only in strength, but also tendon stiffness and rapid force development, allow the athlete to maximize their velocity as well. “You can’t teach speed” is quite outdated, before all the science came along in sports, and referred to the fact that some guys had efficient coordination and mechanics and natural strength and others just didn’t.
September 7th, 2022 at 10:01 AM ^
Yeah it’s like saying “you can’t teach strength”. Sure, there’s probably a physiological limit to how strong I can get and that limit is lower than Mazi Smith’s but I’ve been workings hard at the gym and have, in fact, “taught” myself to be stronger
September 7th, 2022 at 10:17 AM ^
Yes, unfortunately everyone has a ceiling with this. Not to get too into the weeds, there are different types of muscle fibers. Some are "slow twitch" and others "fast twitch". Everyone is born with a unique distribution between these types. A higher percentage of fast twitch fibers and that person will be naturally more explosive. Vice versa, more adept for endurance activities. I always explain it as you can take a 5.0 forty kid and get him to 4.7 but it's never going to be 4.3.
Now, you also have "playing fast". Lots of kids look great in cone drills and run fast metrics but most get on the field and look like they're moving in sand, while others with lesser times look superhuman. That's all based on efficiency of the nervous system. For all the sport science nerds out there, it a fascinating topic to dive into!
September 7th, 2022 at 10:37 AM ^
I have the “no twitch” muscle fibers. No speed and no endurance. I am a helluva reader though!
September 7th, 2022 at 11:02 PM ^
Part of moving fast on the field is knowing what you're doing. You can have all the athletic ability in the world but if you have to think instead of just reacting you're always going to be a step late.
September 8th, 2022 at 7:38 AM ^
Just curious, are muscle fiber composition and nerve system efficiency testable in labs? and will college/pro teams use them to evaluate prospects.
September 7th, 2022 at 11:03 AM ^
I was going to offer an internet opinion but this is high quality stuff.
My short version opinion: I have no idea if Herbert is uniquely good at this, but there are a number of guys who have absolutely worked on their speed and improved it. Braylon Edwards is a familiar example to Michigan fans.
September 7th, 2022 at 11:33 AM ^
Do you train athletes in SE Michigan?
September 7th, 2022 at 11:45 AM ^
Currently in Boise, ID.
September 7th, 2022 at 1:00 PM ^
Probably not sending your clients to Pie Hole, I would guess. My kids and I loved to get slices from there.
September 7th, 2022 at 5:00 PM ^
As long as you’re running there and back it’s cool.
September 7th, 2022 at 2:48 PM ^
I love Boise! I don't see that much Maize and Blue here - lots more orange and Bronco blue instead.
September 7th, 2022 at 10:02 AM ^
I'd hope so
September 7th, 2022 at 10:04 AM ^
Credit Herbert with introducing and reinforcing techniques to increase strength in the right places - based on the individual player needs.
Credit the players with putting in the effort and focus to maximize the impact that the S&C staff can have.
Can you get faster? Absolutely. Brian Urlacher, a now retired linebacker with the Chicago Bears, has talked about this. Urlacher, while he was in college, was concerned that “he would get slower” as he added size / weight to his frame. What he discovered was - he actually became faster as he added weight - really muscle - in the appropriate areas.
Give that man a raise…
September 7th, 2022 at 10:06 AM ^
Yes, you can improve. With the level of money being pumped into the program, I hope to see progress.
September 7th, 2022 at 10:06 AM ^
all of our players are like they used to be, but faster.....
Fred Jackson
September 7th, 2022 at 10:10 AM ^
You absolutely can teach speed. Running mechanics, reaction time, strength/power improvement, etc. Herbert seems really great, but *all* S&C coaches who aren't total charlatans will have guys get faster.
September 7th, 2022 at 10:48 AM ^
Thing is, most trainers are in fact charlatans. They're good at bulking you up or slimming you down, whatever you want, but with no regards to speed, flexibility, or even strength and endurance.
Muscle quality matters. It's how you can see an OL and DT with similar frames and weights and experience face off, and then one whips the other.
September 7th, 2022 at 11:21 AM ^
There's a material difference between hacks at a 24hr fitness and major D1 S&C coach.
I promise you they do understand strength, power, etc. Further, muscle quality isn't a thing unless you're talking about specific fiber types. OL vs. DL has enormous skill components as well, there's a reason position coaches are a thing.
September 7th, 2022 at 11:39 AM ^
Yes, most trainers are in fact nothing near experts. Anyone working with a personal trainer or strength coach needs to ask them, "Why am I doing this thing? What is purpose of the set and rep scheme, rest times, ect? How does it fit into my program and how does it relate to what my specific goals are?" You do that and 90% of them will be stammering through an answer.
Modern big time strength coaches need to have an in depth understanding of physiology, biomechanics, endocrinology, neurology and more, while at the same time being motivators, organizers, and disciplinarians. All this while riding an extremely fine line between pushing athletes too hard or not hard enough. It's a tough job and the great ones are absolutely worth every penny.
September 7th, 2022 at 11:54 AM ^
It also takes organizational skills to manage the progress of over 100 athletes without neglecting or breaking a good many of them.
September 7th, 2022 at 11:59 AM ^
If Haskins were faster, he'd have been the top RB off the board.