While he certainly underachieved at times (Purdue) I think tonight's game should dispel the criticism of those who have said all year that Pryor is not really good. That was an excellent performance by him, and indicates that next year, with another year of growth, and the increasing amount of confidence Tressel has in him, that we will have a lot for our defense to worry about. And the game also showed that those Buckeye fans that want Tressel out, are, as usual, too dumb to be allowed out of the house.
Anyone still think Pryor is over-rated?
so of course he's over-rated!
about the Buckeye D.
Despite Herbie and Musberger's slurp job Pryor's game was not one for the ages.
The Oregon D is far from world beaters - I think Stanford dropped about 50 on them.
But I also wonder about Tressel Ball and his love for conservative game plans, and how that might have had an effect on Pryor's development.
I'm worried that Tressel learned something from this game and if this is the Pryor (who will improve) we'll see from now on.
Here's to hoping Pryor is on track for a three-year OSU career.
He is good at throwing the short passes but his deep balls tend to float and hang up in the air. In the pocket he is an average passer, but when he is able to move on a roll out he is improved since he does not have to read the whole field and the D has to respect his running abilities. When he is in the pocket he tends to get happy feet sometimes and does not trust his middle reads resulting in him tucking and running. I believe he is improving but I dont know if his pure passing skills are good enough to be a true NFL qb.
He might not be NFL material just yet, but for the foreseeable future he will be in college football and the Big Ten.
I'm not sure he has to be a great passer to win at OSU. And as we saw today--get the ball near OSU receivers and they can bail you out.
OH, BTW--he is a true sophomore playing for a coach who seems to have finally found out how to use his talents.
Lets see how he does over the course of a season.
Lets see how he does over the course of a season.
We just did. 11-2 Rose Bowl Champs as a Soph.
its all pryor though ignores the reality. a lot of those wins were in spite of pryor instead of because him.
pryors 11-2 this year is like trent dilfer's superbowl ring w the bucs. a good feat, however, I think the defense was the major factor.
You know as well as I do Pryor is going to be judged on OSU's record next year, which is likely to be outstanding.
Pryor was very good today give him credit.
ring is with the Ravens.
Brad Johnson game managed the Bucs to their title.
my bad. ive been drinking.
and at clair-- i do give him credit for todays game, and to be honest, i am worried about what he can do next year. my comment was more at the fact that we still may not have seen his "breakout" year.
won a Super Bowl with the Ravens.
D'OH! Beaten to the punch. +1 to you.
So is his supporting cast going to suddenly suck and he's going to have to carry them???
The fact he has a good team means more success for him, not less.
11-2 is not the point. He still didn't play well over the course of the season.
With similar logic, Kyle Orton is a premier NFL qb because he was qb when the Bears went to the superbowl a couple years back.
that was Rex Grossman. But point well-taken.
embarrassing. my apologies. thanks
And while OSU's defense was excellent today, anyone that says that Pryor was not a major factor in the win was not paying attention IMO.
and tOSU will lose a good deal on defense (watch the juniors go pro)
Pos # Player | ht , wt , Cls, Elg?, NFL Draft Projection
(Note: the draft projections below are from a free site. They seem to be pre-season projections. You get what you pay for, and I'm cheap)
DE 97 Cameron Heyward | 6-6, 287, Jr., 2V, 2nd
DE 90 Thad Gibson | 6-2, 240, Jr., 2V, FA
DT 92 Todd Denlinger | 6-2, 292, Sr., 3V, --
DT 84 Doug Worthington | 6-6, 276, Sr., 3V, FA
LB 38 Austin Spitler | 6-3, 234, Sr., 3V , FA
LB 51 Ross Homan | 6-0, 229, Jr., 2V, 6th
LB 36 Brian Rolle | 5-11, 221, Jr., 2V, FA
CB 5 Chimdi Chekwa | 6-0, 188, Jr., 2V, --
CB 10 Devon Torrence | 6-1, 193, Jr., 2V, --
S 4 Kurt Coleman | 5-11, 195, Sr., 3V
S 21 Anderson Russell | 6-0, 205, Sr., 3V
it was obvious that tressel opened up the playbook for this game, but does he keep it open all next year? even herbie recognized that if osu were playing indiana and purdue they wouldn't have called some of those playcalls...
....that he'd either have another verbal gaffe about murdering people, OR that he'd say he hired an agent and was going pro....
only two years have elapsed since his HS class graduated.
Yes, he's overrated. He's also quite good. The two are not mutually exclusive.
His throwing motion hurts to watch. It's like he's shot-putting while trying to take a dump. The ball seems to get there on short routes. His reads and progressions do not appear to be terribly advanced, and it looked like Tressel simplified the game plan and route progressions for him.
He's still pretty good though. Very tough to arm tackle.
Agree with every point. The guy definitely has some skill but to say he's not over-rated (remember all that hype during the recruiting process) would simply be untrue.
Honestly, he's scary as a runner but to say he's an ultra-gifted quarterback (keep in mind that includes reading defenses and passing) isn't accurate. Until he can consistently hit open receivers he's nothing more than an average to (maybe) above average qb.
The D wasn't that great. Pryor is still overrated.
Yes. Sure, he can run and he did make a couple of nice throws, but he looks confused when he stands in the pocket and simply threw the ball up for grabs to Ballard. Made another couple of throws that should've been picked off. I think he's an extremely talented and lucky QB.
Maybe it's sour grapes on my part. I can't stand to see these bastards winning Rose Bowls.
He was a 5 star QB, #1 recruit in the nation. Best Athlete to ever play QB, etc, etc...
Oregon's defense was shredded by Arizona. Did you happen to watch Arizona's offensive machine against Nebraska? Pathetic.
Pryor still has some fatal flaws. ie) Shot put throwing motion, happy feet in the pocket, and the mind of 3rd grader who still eats Elmer's glue in art class.
He overcomes some of these flaws with some ridiculous athleticism. So unless you're going to lower the bar dramatically with him, then yes. Completely overrated.
Hopefully he gets talked up like Tebow. His head is already the size of Upper Arlington, it will be the size of Ohio by the time next year rolls around.
you would not like a qb like Tebow in the college game?
Kid works a broken play better than anybody I've ever seen. You see him heading for the sideline with the stiff-arm out and ready to go, instant first down.
He's a sophomore. Who has now started and won a Rose Bowl. As much as it pains me to say it, he's legit. He'll make some mistakes, he'll look confused from time to time, but as we know, that's what young quarterbacks do. The only difference between him and a lot of the others is that he's on a team that seems to always find a way to win.
Okay, but he wasn't on the field when Oregon missed a very makeable FG and fumbled out of the end zone. Oregon found a way to lose as much as he found a way to win.
better than anyone you've ever seen? All right. I'll reluctantly agree Pryor's pretty good with the feet and the stiff arm. But I'll withhold final judgment until he's done and at this point go with Mike Vick, Vince Young, or Steve Young. Also, Donovan McNabb seemed to call "busted play on three" back in the '98 'Cuse game about every other snap. That sum bitch.
Still do. In the four games leading up to the Rose Bowl, Oregon gave up 51, 21, 41 and 33 points. It is not like he lit up a top notch defense. He still tends to arm punt into double coverage, and he still misses wide open receivers.
Yes he's overrated but tonight looked like he might somewhat live up to the hype. It was his best game in a while. He still takes a lot of sacks and should have had more if the Ducks had wrapped him up better. The short and intermediate pass is good but no deep ball (as was already stated). He'll be inconsistent next year too but better. Tressel won't open up the playbook until November 27th if we're able to stop them and the bowl game. He won't change unless Pryor proves he won't cost them games and stays for his senior year just like Troy Smith. That's my bold prediction for 2010. That and we won't lose a game all year. /
I'm worried. I'm worried b/c it seems to me Tressel is giving him the Troy Smith development plan and its working. Tressel said as much in the post game and I think we're going to see a transition from the power sets to more open sets next year, so that if Pryor stays 4-yrs, it's going to be the full out open spread Troy Smith ran in his Heisman year with good results.
Do I think we give up and say Pryor's going to be superman and beat us every year? No. I think he shows signs that dealing with blitzes is something he will struggle with his entire career, and when Oregon was mixing coverages more (late 1Q - early 4Q), Pryor seemed to have a hard time reading the coverage right and making the right decisions. Hopefully this is in an inherent weakness in Pryor that we can exploit with a more experienced defense. Some of these flaws don't go away with experience, they just get masked by creative or overly conservative offensive playcalling (see Tim Couch, Chuck Long). I also think he's going to get lit up by a superior LB one of these times a la Tebow (he's not bigger/stronger than every D-player in the country and he shows he wants the contact) and that will throw a big wrench in tOSU's plans.
Quick, anyone have Fred Wilpon's email to have him offer Pryor a ridiculous baseball contract, as payback for Steinbrenner's swipe of Henson??
Imagine blending him with Tate. Terelle would get passing accuracy, pocket presence, and an IQ upgrade. From the other side, Tate would get size, strength, (improved) athleticism, and (improved) speed.
Tate's pocket presence wasn't really that good. He always seemed to have happy feet.
So instead of getting the uber QB, you get a 5'8" 250 lb QB with a tendency to quote Charles Manson, an arm that makes a 3 yr old with a nerf football look like Joe Montana, the inability to run any offense, and a tendency to arm punt on 2nd down? You know, your average IM football flag football qb from a Bursley team.
And I love the revisionist history about how Oregon's defense sucks. I wonder how many saying this now were saying "how can OSU even score 24 on them with that offense?" and were predicting the Ducks to roll.
....they still suck!
and is only overrated due to the premature hype from H.S.
All his athletic talent can't cover up some flawed decision making and a throwing motion that looks awfully similar to that kid with the limp-wristed throwing style from Revenge of the Nerds.
In order to determine if someone (or something) is overrated, you need to determine how he is rated. I'll go with his rating out of high school, as the #1 recruit in the country, the source of most of his huge hype. This puts him in the same company as:
Vince Young - 2002
Ernie Sims - 2003
Adrian Peterson - 2004
Derrick Williams - 2005
Percy Harvin - 2006
Jimmy Clausen - 2007
Pryor - 2008
Bryce Brown - 2009 (too early to tell)
All of those guys outside of Derrick Williams had very good college careers, and are starters or major contributors in the NFL (except for Clausen who likely will be in a year). Based on that criteria, I would say he is certainly overrated.
The obvious comparison is Vince Young, who if I'm not mistaken didn't come on until his last two years. That said, those years he was probably the best college football player in recent memory.
So, he just has to be one of the best players in the country next year.
Young really started coming on his second year, and got ridiculous the next. Pryor hasn't shown as much this year as Young did, but that's not to say he won't. If you looked at Young's throwing motion before he exploded, every one of the flaws guys on this thread are mentioning for Pryor applied to Young as well.
...their sophomore year?
And even if NFL career matters, only one of them has even been above average on that list, with the potential for Harvin to be pretty good too, but awfully early in his career too. I mean, Derrick Williams...really?
Only one of them has been above average? Obviously you mean AP, but VY was ROY and has come back this year to be a very solid starting QB leading his team to a number of victories, Ernie Sims has been a starter since the day he got to the NFL and Percy Harvin and Derrick Williams are rookies, with Harvin contributing nicely.
All of those guys were already very good by their sophomore years, VY torched us as a sophomore (he did have the benefit of a RS).
Almost all of those guys were drafted high after 3 years of college ball. Will that happen to TP? Also, going with the VY comparison, he not only went very high in the draft, but was a starter and Offensive ROY his rookie season. Do you think TP is two years away from that? I don't.
And Vince Young has had a disaster of a career, up to looking like an average starting quarterback for half of a year this year for a team not even making the playoffs? Could he "get it" now and do better? Yeah. But it remains to be seen. And I dontbknow that I'd compare ANYONE to him, because he's probably the best college player at a skill position any of us have seen.
Ernie Sims is about to get cut and had an underachieving career. Percy Harvin was good, and has been good in the League as a specialist, but hasn't proven to be a consistent All-Pro receiver yet. Derrick Williams a great sophomore? When he was injured? Or the next year when he had two TDs? He was a good freshman who came into his own in his senior year, and has been a bust in the NFL... Not sure why you even brought him up and didn't leave him out like the others.
If you're point is Pryor is no Vince Young, the best mobile college quarterback in college, ever, well, duh.
How does one go about being a consistent all-pro receiver as a rookie? Also, Percy Harvin is more than just a specialist. Megatron and his numbers look very similar.
And you know Megatron's numbers aren't actually that good yet? Not his fault, really, but a bad example. If he had Brett Farve throwing and Peterson drawing attention...
That is way he included them. Since Rivals only has info dated back to 2002 on their site that is why it is from 2002-2009. So who was left out since you claim the posting left some out. Maybe you should know what you are talking about before replying to a post.
By the way, I've never seen a rookie who is proven to be a consistent All-Pro. Wouldn't you have to at least make a couple Pro Bowls in a row to meet that qualification. Certainly the term rookie disqualifies that possibility.
The difference between "why" and "way" might be nice too before you start hurling insults.
I was referring to not mentioning how Clausen et al. on the list, did his sophomore year (not that good), or the others.
The point you're proving for me is that it's silly to call a guy a great pro as evidence how good he is after one year. Give him time before you call him a great pro. Because as Vince Young shows, a good rookie year doesn't mean Hall of Fame.
"If you're point is Pryor is no Vince Young, the best mobile college quarterback in college, ever, well, duh." - M-Wolverine
How about you learn the difference between "your" (possessive pronoun) and "you're" (contraction for "you are") before you shoot YOUR mouth off, Mr. Grammar Nazi.
Glad you can go trolling through posts for rebuttal typos. Pathetic.
I notice you had no answer for any of the football stuff "that I know nothing about", but whatever makes you feel better. Oops.
(I love how people who toss out insults get their panties in a bunch when they get it back. Can dish it out, but...).
Dude, I wasn't even the guy you were arguing with earlier. I merely read your posts, disagreed with everything you said, and noticed that you like to throw around insults about grammar and yet don't know the difference between "you're" and "your".
I never insulted you. I am not a troll. Now stop with the hating on everyone and relax.
Yes I do. He did complete the short ball very well tonite, but he can't throw the long ball to save his life. And the way espn announcers jizz in their pants over him makes me sick.
you were expecting insightful impartiality?
Musberger still proudly wears Laurinitus' jizz on his tie.
...but Tressel showed signs of utilizing his strengths while hiding his weaknesses tonight. That is a very scary thought. Tressel has just made OSU a lot harder to beat the next two years.
I guess that just means RR will have to work that much harder.
Let us see, Pryor is not intelligent enough to execute the game plan, has a terrible arm, but has won 2 big ten championships, played in 2 bcs bowl games, and is MVP of the Rose Bowl, after his Sophomore campaign. Yall can rate him anyway you want but he is undeniably successful.
What makes people think he can't hit the long ball? It's not the greatest, but when you can run like him, then you don't need to be perfect on the long ball.
Honestly, the thing that scares me about him is that his running ability hasn't even been fully exploited yet. King of Belch (what ever happened to him, anyways) once said that Tressel treats offense like some guy (who was it again?) treats a dick measuring contest - he only pulls out as much as he needs to beat you.
If you miss KoB try catching some of Simi Maquoketa's posts, eerily similar!!!!!
I accidentally +1'd him a few times in other threads because the posts seemed reasonable enough. Now I'm a little confused, though.
His hype was enormous, and he probably hasn't lived up to it. On the other hand, all that talk about Tate being better and Pryor moving to wide receiver is probably unreasonable right now.
Pryor showed what a full month of coaching and preparation can do against a relatively weak defense (indeed, 49th best scoring defense in the nation). There is no question that Tressel can scheme when given that much time and against a defense with that many holes.
My sense was that Pryor looked like a world beater when scrambling and in moving the pocket (either intentionally or otherwise) and he got away with a number of brutal throws (duck like) that his receivers came back on to save. He is effective in short and underneath routes. It is his elusiveness in the pocket that presents the longer term problem; regrettably for Oregon their coverage was outplayed badly on the broken plays.
Guess we find out what GERG is made of next fall with this; although, those who recall the November game might note that GERG schemed the hell out of that game given the talent he has on hand. Just sayin'
Well with the ridiculous amount of hype placed on him, than yes maybe he is overrated. But I would sure as hell like him on my team, he's going to be very good the next two years.
Haha I love how ESPN considers 266 yards with 2 TDs and a pick a career day.. then again it is TP.
is a good player. Man, was it me or was Brent Muffburger drooling all over Pryor? And what was with the "our man Ballard" comment? Weird.
Anyway, the thing that makes OSU tough to beat is 1) great defense and 2) Pryor's nearly unstoppable bootleg runs. Defense wins championships and that defensive line is big, strong and quick. They are arguably the best in the country. And Pryor running with speed outside of the pocket is a terror. Tressell did a good job of playing to these strengths and controlling the clock with some key 3rd down conversions. Granted, Oregon shot themselves in the foot with a bunch of penalties and a costly, potentially game-turning fumble. And Masoli did not have a good passing day.
In the end, and I hate to f***ing say this because it pisses me off to no end, but I give credit to OSU for stepping up and taking the Rose Bowl.
Pryor didn't win the game as much as not lose it. While that's an admirable quality in any QB, he still made some very poor decisions and was bailed out by his receivers (especially right before the last TD), the D and a game changing fumble when Oregon was likely to score.
Yes, he's a good college QB (or will be by his senior year), but so is Tony Pike and look what's happening to him right now with no defense to help. Tressel has not changed his stripes or "figured out" how to use Pryor. I'd guess that he doesn't trust Pryor more than any other time. Oregon packed the box all night and tOSU had to throw to even have a chance. Even Tressel was going to let his QB throw more often in that circumstance.
Your question was not whether Pryor is good, it was whether he is overrated. The answer is yes. He was picked as the preseason B10 offensive player of the year -- which he was not. He was mentioned early on as a potential 2009 Heisman winner (and probably will be again next year) -- yet, based on how he has played thus far, he does not even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with any of the players that were invited to NY for the ceremony this year. He is very big and fast and athletic for a QB. Fine. But his natural born physical abilities mask his poor passing and judgment. Probably the most damning of all, he is barely any better today as a QB than he was the first time he stepped on the field at OSU. Bottom line: TP is a very good but not great QB and would do just as well at tight end, safety or linebacker based purely on his physical abilities (except, of course, that he does not like to get hit).
FWIW, the fact that OSU beat Oregon in the Rose Bowl changes nothing. OSU also lost at home to a below average USC and to a Purdue team that did not even go to a bowl game. And they lost both of those games due to lack of offense. OSU's defense had far more to do with its victory in the Rose Bowl than TP. TP's stats were solid, but nothing spectacular unless you are using his own past performances as the benchmark comparison. TP is a good QB, and being only a sophomore he has time to get better if he is willing to put in the work, but so far he is not even close to being as good as his hype.
I will reserve my judgment on him until he plays the season next year. Bowl games sometimes launch players over the hump in their next season (see Jimmy Clausen). I won't deny he played a good game tonight and will go on record as saying bar none he has the best stiff arm in college. But let's see how he fares next season as OSU is losing some key seniors on defense and has quite a few starting underclassmen at least thinking about testing the draft. If their defense has to replace a large portion of their starters he will have to more than likely put up points and I'm still not sure he can do that. Hats off to OSU and it's nice to see the Big Ten playing well in the bowl games thus far. Very close to being 4-1 but 3-2 with wins against the Pac 10, ACC, and SEC works for me.
He isn't really "young" as a sophmore considering there's a good chance he's now 2/3's through his colllege career(as seems fairly common these days).Some act as if he redshirted last year...Or even a true freshman.
He's an amazing athlete and a mediocre QB.He'll be riding a bench(or playing another position)in the NFL a couple/few years from now.
I completely disagree with the positions asserted by the OP that Pryor had an "excellent" game. To quote my most diehard OSU fan friend: "Pryor managed the game". That's all he did. Nothing more. No spectacular runs. No spectacular throws. He was just good. Not great, and certainly not excellent. So basically they are happy to have their prized recruit be the equivalent of Craig Krenzel. I really don't know what game Musberger was watching to give such a full throated endorsement of Pryor, unless he wasn't actually watching the game and was just looking at the stat line. There are probably 50 quarterbacks in FBS right now that would have put up a better game and better numbers if placed in Pryor's position tonight. I do, however, give Tressel a lot of credit for creating a game plan (finally) that actually utilizes the skill set that Pryor has as opposed to the skill set that people wish/believe Pryor has.
If OSU ever has to open up the offense big time (ala Troy Smith in 2006), they will be in some trouble. Poor decisions and an awkward throwing motion will hurt him in the long run. Right now, and the Michigan and Rose Bowl games are prime examples, he is not forced into doing anything special, has no pressure on him, and takes what opportunities fall into his lap. I will not be convinced that he is a special player until he can put the team on his back. Look at Texas, USC, Purdue games to name a few to see how well he does in these situations.
passes looked like wounded ducks. His receivers out jumped the defender. His passing didn't look very good to me.
I'm still not ready to claim him overrated. He is s true Sophomore playing in an offense not tailored to his strong points. He didn't have a great "year" but just played a great bowl game. Simple statistics say we need to assess based on the season and not the one bowl game, but I think we will really see next year. Do I think he is overrated? Not yet. He is still 2-0 against us and 1-1 in BCS bowls. I'll wait to see how he does throughout the 2010.
Next year he may not have as great a D to bail him out and unfortunately that may be a good thing for his development.