All the urns in Wuhan...
...add up to a lot more than 2,535 deaths from Covid19.
https://www.newsweek.com/wuhan-covid-19-death-toll-may-tens-thousands-data-cremations-shipments-urns-suggest-1494914
Streetchemist got blasted on this forum back on 3/6 for the info he received. I saw a lot of what he was saying through several sources, including a Feb news piece that several Wuhan crematoriums were running 24/7 and their employees didn’t have adequate relief or protection.
https://mgoblog.com/comment/243774453#comment-243774453
FWIW I would believe something Mineral King posted before I'd believe anything the communist government of China claims in regards to Covid-19.
Of COURSE there's more dead than being reported. A lot more.
Hypothesis: They have, and will continue to have, more deaths than the U.S. (or any other country for that matter)
India’s death toll is going to be brutal.
We honestly might not even know since testing there will be scant at best especially with Desi Trump in charge. Combine that with the poor population there; the economic fallout will be disastrous. The textile industry in Bangladesh and West Bengal are already feeling the effects of it. It's going to be catastrophic.
LOL @ "Desi Trump"
India had the largest death toll in the 1918 flu pandemic—estimates are from 12 to 17 million died there.
Africa is also likely to be hammered badly.
I don't want to watch what will happen when this hits the Syrian refuges. Man, those people have suffered enough.
Job thinks those people have been through too much.
I've been to Syrian refugee campus and people live immediately next to one another in cramped spaces and have almost no access to medical care. I doubt they have a single ventilator in any refugee camp and getting to a hospital is very difficult considering restrictions on their movement. It will be very bad for them to put it mildly.
Next you’re going to tell me Iran under reported theirs too. /s
I've been saying this for weeks whenever the topic came up. You absolutely cannot trust any of the "facts" and figures that come out of China with respect to COVID-19 cases and deaths. People point to the stellar job China did, but it was so draconian, blah blah blah. That's the story they want you to hear and believe.
Guys, guys, guys, you have it all wrong. Check out this highly enlightening article from the Chinese "Global Times": https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1184370.shtml
For those that don't want to click, here is a gem: "Western politicians and media stirred up a new round of attacks on China's virus prevention effort: questioning its data transparency, which scientists criticized as "cannot be taken at face value scientifically."
The groundless accusations reflected a "sour grape" mentality long existing in some Westerners. This was amplified by the stark contrast between China's announcement of a phased victory of the hard-fought battle and Western countries' harrowing struggle in battling the global pandemic..."
Ok Mr. Oriental Rug... you'd also said that the USA was going to see close to the same percentage of deaths as Italy, which thus far is completely wrong, you're off by about 80% bud, which is a huge delta!
I was the one preaching to you that our health care system is NOT identical to Italy, and our geography as well as our population density (or lack there of) would also see the USA coming through this far better than China, Italy, and most other countries.
*So you got one OBVIOUS thing right... China lies... water is wet!
Italy's death rate is around 12% (per confirmed cases)
USA's death rate 2%
The minute the Chinese authorities claimed they had reduced domestic virus transmission to zero, in a country of over 1 billion people that was already heavily hit, it was obvious they were not being transparent.
Ya. If you are committed to lying make it at semi believable.
Yeah, same thing with Russia reporting zero cases. Good one.
Even crazier, about 80% of retailers are open now in China, and this is being used as a model of encouragement.
I just don’t know anymore
Absolutely zero confirmed transmission cases.
Please ignore our policy of shooting anyone who requests testing. ...
No to mention all those cases of ‘pneumonia’ that Russia has been reporting.
I mean, come one, does anybody really believe the numbers from authoritarian governments like China? When they spent the entire start of this pandemic trying to cover it up? That said, I'm sure part of the increased deaths are an overwhelmed healthcare system and people are also dying of non-COVID things and they probably just can't get the usual care.
I mean anyone who thinks that there are legitimately more deaths in the US than a country that has 5x the population and is more densely populated is an idiot
The estimated real numbers are over 3 million infected and around 45,000 deaths.
It's not particularly a secret, Intelligence briefings on the topic have been going around since January.
What's more numerous: the number of urns in Wuhan or the number of shitty threads this week?
I wish I'd saved it, but I saw some satellite photos that showed the amount of gas being released over Wuhan's known crematoriums at the height of their shutdown. It compared that to normal amounts. The difference was astounding. They also identified 12 other locations that Chinese insiders said were where portable crematoriums were set up to handle the number of bodies. They were running 24/7 for weeks.
With the shutdown in Wuhan, most other pollution died down, but the crematoriums ramped up.
If you're on Twitter, a good follow is Jennifer Zeng @ jenniferatntd.
This has been widely debunked. Something about the scans of SO2 weren’t actual live readings of its concentration. Also they were supposedly over a steel plant as well.
Not to get too far into the weeds, but every country has more coronavirus deaths than what has been reported. There are people dying at home or people dying who haven't been tested, and it has been attributed to pneumonia or the flu or something.
Don't get me wrong: China is shady, and I don't believe the numbers they've reported are even close. I don't even think it's an honest attempt.
But Italy, Spain, the USA, etc. all certainly have numerous cases - probably at least in the hundreds, if not thousands - that have not and won't be tallied.
Absolutely. More will die here, and around the world, than will ever get reported. I think the difference though is that our press will better be able to hold the appropriate parties accountable to the numbers they report on deaths, because it has no obligation take said parties at their word. So we’ll probably never get an accurate total, but you’ll get closer.
In China, the government owns the press. If they want their press to say that they’ve found a cure, and everything is sunshine and rainbows in China, then that is what will get reported. There will be far more accurate infection/death headcount totals here than in China.
State-run media or no, vaulting the Great Firewall is the Chinese national pastime.
The truth will get out.
Long live the free press and I don't mean that paper that most of us here wouldn't click on for years thanks to Stretchgate.
Absolutely. The difference is with respect to intentional under-reporting (i.e., China) and under-reporting due to lack of testing, data, etc. (US, Italy, etc.).
About 160,000 people in the US die from COPD and related respiratory disease each year. So some of these will be counted as COVID and COVID will speed some of these up. Numbers will never be exact for sure.
Some number of people will die of other things because hospitals will be busy with COVID and some surgeries will be delayed.
Not so much about the Chinese coverup, which we all knew was going on. But what this portends for population centers that are about to experience outbreaks. There is still much debate over the true mortality rate of this disease. We have to look back at areas that have already been hit. And if their data is skewed by as much as 10, 20 or 40 fold then there’s much to be concerned about it.
yes, no one is happy that more people died in China than we know about. If you toss out Iran and China numbers, the death rate goes up.
perhaps the death rate in known cases, but I think the true death rate is similar to South Korea, around 1%. The problem is, true number of mild and asymptomatic cases which account for 80-90% of all cases will never be known. Whatever the final death tally of this awful virus is, we can likely assume that is around 1% of all cases.
I think you are correct, one of the cruse ships was a good case study as a closed system. I read that article a while back but I believe it was in line with 1%
1% is with proper treatment of course.
In fact I think the US model uses death instead of infect rate
Is S Korea’s rate lower because of large scale testing and treating? They reported first confirmed cases the same day as US but due to better containment and tracing. their urban centers have been better off than Seattle, NYC, Det & NOLA. Italy’s mortality rate is around 7% I believe. Their system was quickly overrun and they were forced to ration care.
South Korea has widespread testing, yes. I'd wager that it has more to do with Italy, Seattle, NYC, Det, NOLA etc having rampant community spread, and that the number of fatalities account for maybe 2% at most of ALL cases (including mild and asymptomatic cases that will never be tested)
Yeah, well, in Italy some mayors were busy telling everyone to stop being racist and hug a Chinese person when you saw them.....don't think S. Korea was doing the same.
I have been watching the numbers out of Germany for a few weeks primarily because they jumped on it early and being an optimist I was very excited that their initial mortality rate was 0.1%. So I thought, yeah baby, these guys know what to do but the number has climbed daily to 1.2%. So my hopes that this blow over were dashed last week as it climbed every day and reached 0.9%.
I was also amazed at how they tracked it from a Webasto parts plant and determined that Italy had at least three sub-strains of CV-10 (one from the Webasto group in Germany) indicating that they had at least three different people bring the virus to Italy.
About India, yeah hard to believe they had fewer cases than Iceland or Greece until yesterday.
Iran’s shadiness isn’t getting enough attention. They’ve been adding basically the same number of cases and deaths every day and hoping no one will notice.
Couldn’t hide the football field length trenches that they dug inside of a cemetery from our satellites.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/iran-coronavirus-outbreak-graves/
China not giving the full story?? Color me shocked....
Thousands upon thousands will die from this in China, and it will never get reported. Part of that is due to lack of testing, granted, but a major piece of that will be China refusing to display to the world that it is just as much in the weeds on this shit as we are.
Having spent plenty of time in China over the last 20 years, all of this is true. No data can be trusted from what you hear. Also, what hasn't been discussed is that their medical care sucks...unless you're really rich.
The WHO, which has operated as a shill for China, is an organization that the US should take a hard look at as for any future financial support.
The WHO does not even give the time of day to Taiwan and provided them no support simply to please China.
Ah yes the new talking point from our right-wing dunces to shift blame away from Dear Leader.
You apparently have a one track mind. Let's hear your reasons in support of The WHO handling of the pandemic.
Ah yes the woefully underfunded WHO was going to wring the necks’ of China and force them to tell the truth just like it could’ve forced the US to actually prepare for the pandemic using its own guidelines or utilize its actual *functional* test kits.
Smh.
Yeah, but the WHO could acknowledge that Taiwan exists.