Home
supporting the Clint Eastwood State Fightin' John Waynes since 2011

Primary links

  • About
    • $upport (lol)
    • Ethics
    • FAQ
    • Privacy Policy
  • Contact
  • MGoStore
  • MGoBoard
    • MGoBoard FAQ
    • Ticket spreadsheet
    • Michigan bar locator
    • Moderator Action Sticky
  • Useful Stuff
    • Depth Chart By Class
    • Unofficial Two Deep
    • 2013 Offer Board
    • Crude Bug Tracking System
    • Third Down Stats
    • Diaries, Windows Live Writer, And You
    • Michigan Future Schedules
    • User-Curated HOF
    • Where To Eat In Ann Arbor
Home Diaries kman23's blog

Navigation

  • Forums
  • Recent posts

User login

  • Create new account
  • Request new password

MGoElsewhere

  • @MGoBlog (Brian)
  • @aceanbender
  • @TomVH (Tom)
  • RSS Feed
  • iPhone App
  • Facebook profile
  • MGoKindle Store
  • mgo.licio.us
  • Brian @ TSB [Archive]
  • Brian @ AOL [Archive]
  • Sour Salty Bitter Sweet

Michigan Blogs

  • Big House Blog
  • Brice's Recruiting
  • Burgeoning Wolverine Star
  • Genuinely Sarcastic
  • Go Blue Michigan Wolverine
  • Holdin' The Rope
  • MGoFootball
  • MVictors
  • Maize 'n' Blue Nation
  • Maize 'n' Brew
  • Maize And Go Blue
  • Michigan Football Recruiting
  • Michigan Hockey Net
  • The Blog That Yost Built
  • The Hoover Street Rag
  • The M Zone
  • The Wolverine Blog
  • Touch The Banner
  • UMGoBlog
  • UMHoops
  • UMTailgate
  • Wolverine Liberation Army

M On The Net

  • mgovideo
  • MGoBlue.com
  • Mike DeSimone
  • Recruiting Planet
  • The Wolverine
  • Go Blue Wolverine
  • Winged Helmet
  • UMGoBlue.com
  • MaizeRage.org
  • Puckhead
  • The M Den
  • True Blue Fan Forum

Big Ten Blogs

  • Illinois
    • A Lion Eye
    • Hail To The Orange
    • Illinois Baseball Report
    • Illinois Loyalty
  • Indiana
    • Inside The Hall
    • The Crimson Quarry
  • Iowa
    • Black Heart, Gold Pants
    • Fight For Iowa
  • Michigan State
    • The Only Colors
  • Minnesota
    • GopherHole.com
    • The Daily Gopher
    • I'm In Love With A Fringe Bowl Team
    • TNABACG
  • Nebraska
    • Big Red Network
    • Corn Nation
    • Husker Mike's Blasphemy
    • Husker Gameday
  • Northwestern
    • Sippin' On Purple
    • Lake The Posts
  • Notre Dame
    • The House Rock Built
    • One Foot Down
  • Ohio State
    • Eleven Warriors
    • Buckeye Commentary
    • Men of the Scarlet and Gray
    • Our Honor Defend
    • The Buckeye Nine
  • Penn State
    • Slow States
    • Black Shoe Diaries
    • Happy Valley Hardball
    • Penn State Clips
    • Linebacker U
    • Nittany White Out
  • Purdue
    • Boiled Sports
    • Hammer and Rails
  • Wisconsin
    • Bruce Ciskie

Links of Note

  • Baseball
    • Big Ten Hardball
    • College Baseball Today
    • The Baseball Zealot
    • The College Baseball Blog
  • Basketball
    • Ken Pomeroy
    • Basketball Prospectus
    • Midmajority
  • College Hockey
    • Chris Heisenberg
    • College Hockey Stats
    • Inside College Hockey
    • Michigan College Hockey
    • Hockey's Future
    • Sioux Sports
    • USCHO
    • Western College Hockey
    • CCHA
      • LSSU Hockey
      • Bronco Hockey Blog
  • Football
    • Smart Football
    • Every Day Should Be Saturday
    • Doctor Saturday
    • CFB Stats
    • Harold Stassen
    • NCAA D-I Stats Page
    • The Wizard Of Odds
  • General
    • Sports Central
  • Local Interest
    • The Ann Arbor Chronicle
    • Arborwiki
    • Arbor Update
    • Teeter Talk
    • Vacuum
  • Teams Of The D
    • Lions
      • Pride of Detroit
      • Fire Millen
    • Pistons
      • Detroit Bad Boys
      • Need4Sheed
    • Tigers
      • Roar Of The Tigers
      • The Detroit Tigers Weblog
      • The Daily Fungo
    • Red Wings
      • On The Wings
      • Behind The Jersey
      • Winging It In Motown
    • Michigan Sports Forum

Get Yer Tickets

Find the best US sports betting sites on the web at onlinebetting.com. Sports wagering is getting more and more popular each year, so place your bets online today.

Enjoy online gambling? Why not try online poker or online roulette? Especially online roulette for real money. If you are going to play poker, then make sure you use the PartyPoker bonus code or PokerStars marketing code when signing up to these two poker giants.

If you're looking for online sports betting, Sportsbooks is your best option. Nothing else compares in variety and reliability.

Football Display Case

NFL Watches

Follow your favorite team with localtv-satellite.com: Click Here.

Always better to play free blackjack and free Flash slots online before making a purchase on any real online casino.

Site Search

Diaries

  • New
  • Popular
  • Hot
  • The Blockhams in "TACKLING TECHNIQUE"
    Six Zero - 6 hours ago
  • College Football 101 (#100)
    cstalionsuofm - 17 hours ago
  • Big Ten Recruiting Rankings: 5-21-12
    Ace - 1 day ago
  • College Football 101
    cstalionsuofm - 1 day ago
  • Space, bitches...wallpaper edition...
    jonvalk - 1 day ago
  •  
  • 1 of 5
  • ››
more
  • Dear Mr. Woodson; Quit talking to Mark Snyder.
    Section 1 - 4,894 views
  • Big Ten Recruiting Rankings: 5-21-12
    Ace - 3,271 views
  • Nebraska Recruiting, Michigan and the rest of the B1G
    UMgradMSUdad - 2,994 views
  • Beware History
    Blazefire - 2,107 views
  • College Football 101
    cstalionsuofm - 1,542 views
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more
  • Dear Mr. Woodson; Quit talking to Mark Snyder.
    Section 1 - 136 comments
  • College Football 101
    cstalionsuofm - 43 comments
  • Conference Champions Only? A Playoff Case Study
    stephenrjking - 38 comments
  • Choosing Playoff Participants: Poll, Committee, or Autobid?
    oakapple - 27 comments
  • College Football 101 (#100)
    cstalionsuofm - 14 comments
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more

MGoBoard

  • New
  • Recent
  • Hot
  • OT - Stanford names OC position after Andrew Luck
    37 replies
  • Brandon, Hollis nominated for SBJ Athletic Director of the Year
    13 replies
  • College Football Resumes in 100 days
    10 replies
  • OT: More Big XII Expansion Info
    50 replies
  • Borges loves recruiting to Michigan
    38 replies
  • Cowboys Classic 8pm start, The Game with Noon start
    20 replies
  • Maisel on Yost and Rockne Feud - "Hurdle the Dead"
    4 replies
  • Su'a Cravens to Visit Michigan and Ohio State in the Next Week
    51 replies
  • OT: James Bond Skyfall Trailer Edit: & Top 5 Bond movies list
    80 replies
  • Michigan/'Bama Super Regional Softball Preview
    19 replies
  • Michigan vs/ Bama tickets on sale now (Priority points only)
    27 replies
  • ESPN: Coaches Fans Hate (refers to UM Fans hating Tressel and GRob)
    46 replies
  • OT - Space, Bitches. Space (X) launches Falcon 9 Dragon to ISS
    64 replies
  • Darius Morris sighting
    30 replies
  • OT: Ways to Watch House tonight?
    27 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 7
  • ››
  • OT: James Bond Skyfall Trailer Edit: & Top 5 Bond movies list
    80 replies
  • OT - Stanford names OC position after Andrew Luck
    37 replies
  • Borges loves recruiting to Michigan
    38 replies
  • Brandon, Hollis nominated for SBJ Athletic Director of the Year
    13 replies
  • OT - Space, Bitches. Space (X) launches Falcon 9 Dragon to ISS
    64 replies
  • OT: More Big XII Expansion Info
    50 replies
  • Su'a Cravens to Visit Michigan and Ohio State in the Next Week
    51 replies
  • Michigan vs/ Bama tickets on sale now (Priority points only)
    27 replies
  • Maisel on Yost and Rockne Feud - "Hurdle the Dead"
    4 replies
  • Cowboys Classic 8pm start, The Game with Noon start
    20 replies
  • Michigan/'Bama Super Regional Softball Preview
    19 replies
  • Bennie Joppru had a stroke
    23 replies
  • ESPN: Coaches Fans Hate (refers to UM Fans hating Tressel and GRob)
    46 replies
  • College Football Resumes in 100 days
    10 replies
  • Darius Morris sighting
    30 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 7
  • ››
  • OT: Friday Afternoon "Whatcha Doing?" Open Posbang Thread
    252 replies
  • DAB: Alternate FB Uni Plan Forthcoming
    150 replies
  • MICHIGAN SOFTBALL: REGIONAL CHAMPS
    147 replies
  • Not so cryptic update from Tremendous re: Maurice Hurst Jr.?
    117 replies
  • Experiencing the Big House
    116 replies
  • Softball vs. Louisville open thread
    111 replies
  • OT: Champions League final discussion & live thread
    98 replies
  • Dallas Morning News: Big 12 Source said "We Might Be Moving Toward 4 Superconferences"
    96 replies
  • Devin Gardner changes Number
    96 replies
  • Scout revamps their player rankings
    95 replies
  • 5 star RB Davis to USC
    95 replies
  • Roy Roundtree to wear #21
    94 replies
  • OT: FSU to Big 12 talk picking up heat. Clemson and Georgia Tech in talks with big 12
    94 replies
  • FWIW Probable USC commit S'ua Craven has narrowed his list
    89 replies
  • OT-Pam Ward removed from ESPN college football coverage
    89 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 7
  • ››

mgo.licio.us

  • Former U-M tight end Bennie Joppru, 32, recovering from stroke

    best wishes

    2 comments
  • Michigan's Lewan maturing into a leader

    but what about the bike?

    1 comments
  • Relegation in College Football!

    amazingly, we don't go down in 2008.

    2 comments
  • Newest commit Copp discusses high-school football career, decision to pursue hockey

    “We’ve had season tickets (at Yost Ice Arena) ever since I was born,” he said. “It’s always been the dream to play there.”

    0 comments
  • FACES OF DESPAIR: BIG TEN MEETINGS

    "The wolf is the only constant, Adam. It takes care of its own and lives in the wound called the world. She rips it anew each day for the blood she needs to survive."

    0 comments
  • DTotD: An overhead kick to the throat in MLS

    Justin Meram didn't just score

    0 comments
  • Devin Booker blowing up, sticking to roots

    offer coming in a month, most likely

    0 comments
  • Versatile Nik Stauskas ready to do a bit of everything for the Michigan basketball team

    "I had so many Michigan fans and other people messaging me on Twitter and saying 'I hope you're ready to play point guard. I was a little bit worried."

    1 comments
  • Eso Akunne of Michigan Wolverines holds memories of mom close

    "Come home. We need to talk about mom."

    0 comments
  • Get Familiar: Michigan verbal Taco Charlton

    Enjoys things with "game" in the title.

    2 comments
  • Scouting Video: Derrick Walton at 2012 Spiece Run ‘n Slam

    sounds like all three Michigan commits are improving their stock so far

    0 comments
  • WTKA 1050AM Mott Takeover Schedule

    all of the people

    0 comments
  • Borges on Alabama game: Preparation 'has already begun'

    I'd hope so

    0 comments
  • Glen Steele tribute - YouTube

    one of the greatest names of all time #ofalltime

    1 comments
  • Quitting on Bo Schembechler was no easy task for baseball Hall of Fame-bound Barry Larkin

    Larkin said Schembechler scattered papers with a pound of his fist and "almost climbed over the desk" to point and tell him, “No one comes to the University of Michigan and plays stinkin’ baseball!”

    4 comments

Getting Odoms, Roundtree and Koger on the field together

By kman23 — March 30th, 2010 at 11:38 PM — 58 comments
Michigan's offense has numerous talented athletes. Unfortunately, three of Michigan's best weapons, Roundtree, Odoms, and Koger, all play in the slot. The only time that all three play at the same time is when Michigan goes five wide but this formation is rarely used since it eliminates all running options besides a QB draw.

Roundtree broke out last year and had 32 receptions for 434 yards and 3 TDs but he really put almost all of those numbers up in the final 4 games where he had 30 receptions for 390 yards and 2 TDs. Odoms missed the final 4 weeks but still had decent numbers reeling in 22 receptions for 272 yards and a TD. His freshman year Odoms put up much better numbers with 49 receptions for 443 yards. Koger also missed 4 weeks but still put up decent numbers for a Sophomore TE. He had 16 receptions for 220 yards and 2 TDs. Besides those three guys the only other players that put up good receiving numbers last year were the now graduated Greg Matthews (29-352-1) and the often injured Junior Hemingway (16-268-2). Stonum showed promise but he didn't exceed 200 yards. I think the numbers show that Michigan's offense is at its best when Odoms, Roundtree and Koger are playing.

But this is where the problem is. Odoms and Roundtree are both slot WR. Koger is a TE. Michigan plays at most two slot players at one time. Sometimes, they go down to just one slot player. This really handicaps Michigan's offense so I was trying to come up with possibilities to get all three out on the field as much as possible. I came up with a handful of possibilities:

Option #1: Move Roundtree to the outside receiver position.

Option #2: Move Koger to more of an H-Back role.

Option #3: Move Koger to an outside receiver position .

Option #4: Rotate out 1 of the 3  every play.

I think each option has positives and negatives. Option #1 lets Koger play as a TE and lets Odoms play the slot but Roundtree is just 6 feet tall and he is more shifty then fast. Also, Roundtree is a key player on the offense and excelled in the slot. Why change something that worked so well? He clearly has a connection with Forcier and Forcier looked for him first at the end of last year. A full season of these two would be amazing to watch.

Option #2 lets the slot WRs stay in the slot. This is ideal since Odoms and Roundtree are better offensive threats then Koger, so if anyone should have to move it should be Koger. Koger in the backfield can help with the blocking, especially cutting back against the line, and gives Forcier another option when he is scrambling around. However, having a 6'4 250 pound TE in the H-Back role might slow down the offense (V. Smith running into Koger) and Koger's blocking skills aren't good enough to go 1 on 1 with a DE or OLB. Michigan experimented with Koger here last year and it had some success. Certainly when Michigan is running a lot of QB Reads having Koger there helps since he is fast enough to get outside the containing linebacker but on runs up the middle he seemed lost and useless.

Option #3 lets Odoms and Roundtree stay in the slot (which once again is key) and it helps fill a void at outside WR. Hemingway and Stonum didn't do much last year. Stonum showed some signs of breaking out but I don't trust him to be the #1 outside WR this year. Having Koger, Odoms, Roundtree plus a RB and QB that can run all on the field with Stonum should allow Stonum to flourish. He'd be the #1 deep threat and he'd almost never face double coverage since the safeties would have to be worried about the slot WRs.

Koger isn't slow but he's not a speedy outside WR that is going to stretch the defense. However, neither is Hemingway (especially if he did gain more weight). Koger seems to have as good of hands as Hemingway and he is much taller, which gives Michigan a jump ball candidate for endzones. Additionally, Koger is a better blocker then Hemingway and he can probably pancake a containing safety or a LB concentrating on the RB. Finally, this lets Michigan red-shirt Jackson and MIller and bring Stokes along slowly. Now if Stokes is solid this spring and ready to start I think he should play over Koger since outside speed is sorely lacking but if he needs to come in and start slowly gaining experience this plan could work.

I'm not saying Michigan should go to this every down but this could be a base formation. Now if Michigan is in 2nd and 10 or 3rd and long I'd suggest replacing Koger with a faster option but besides that I think having him out there most the time makes sense. When defenses go to zone (to help their LBs/S/DBs) cover Odoms and Roundtree this would let Koger run nice 3-5 step routes where he could set up in a whole in the zone. Having an elite speedster at WR would be great but it's not realistic this year.

Option #4: Odoms and Koger and Roundtree and Hemingway all have injury problems. Most likely in an average game one of these guys is hurt, which, eliminates most of the depth problem. Also, no way can Roundtree and Odoms play every snap. They will wear out and having Koger step in and replace them makes sense. However, with the lack of depth outside and the numerous depth at the slot, I really think Michigan should look elsewhere for a sub for Odoms or Roundtree. Michigan has numerous options at the slot like Terrence Robinson, Jeremy Gallon, Kelvin Grady, Drew Dileo, Austin White, DJ Williamson and probably Denard Robinson. I just think keeping that having all these guys on the sidelines doesn't make sense. I also think moving Roundtree or Odoms makes little sense since they are elite slot WR and why mess with a great thing?

That leaves me with moving Koger to either an H-Back role or outside WR. At first moving Koger outside made no sense but after thinking about it I now think it's possible. How much slower is he then Hemingway? I think his hands and size and blocking ability more than make up for Hemingway. Stonum is speedy and if he's on the opposite side of the formation the defense will still need to drop their safeties back and Michigan can always move Koger to H-Back when they need an extra blocker. Plus, when Michigan is in a 3rd and long they could always sub Koger out for a faster WR like Stokes or Denard.

Am I crazy for thinking this is possible? Do you have another solution? Let me know.
  • kman23's blog
  • Login or register to post comments

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
March 31st, 2010 at 12:07 AM | If you want (Score:1)
Double Nickel BG
Double Nickel BG's picture
Joined: 02/04/2009
MGoPoints: 294

Koger/Odoms/Roundtree on the field at the same time, go 5 wide.

I got a 23 and didn't get in. Of course I'm a 5'8 white guy that can't catch herpes at a titty bar. - Toledowolverine

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 9:14 PM | NO RB! (Score:1)
kman23
kman23's picture
Joined: 08/03/2009
MGoPoints: 240

I did mention this. Thanks for the obvious. The only problem with this is that you can't have a RB in this formation!

Alex: Backup QB is the best position in sports. In fact I get drunk all the time, I don't have to show up to class, and it's just like being a real QB but without all the pain.

  • Login or register to post comments
April 1st, 2010 at 5:15 PM | How can you do that when (Score:1)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 26839

How can you do that when Koger's a TE?

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 12:11 AM | Nice review. (Score:1)
Edward Khil
Edward Khil's picture
Joined: 03/06/2010
MGoPoints: 887

Just brainstorming: Why not Denard at WR? That'll stretch the field. I don't think RR has gone on record with any specifics about where he might play in addition to QB. Why would you slot Denard in the slot?

They don't realize that there's this, like, lattice of coincidence that lays on top of everything.
  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 9:15 PM | Denard WR (Score:1)
kman23
kman23's picture
Joined: 08/03/2009
MGoPoints: 240

I did mention Denard as a WR. But he's most likely a slot, just adding to the too many players for the same spot conundrum.

Alex: Backup QB is the best position in sports. In fact I get drunk all the time, I don't have to show up to class, and it's just like being a real QB but without all the pain.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 12:15 AM | Having more athletes than spots (Score:1)
zguy517
zguy517's picture
Joined: 03/18/2010
MGoPoints: 1992

Is always better than having more spots than athletes.

I will take any combo of Odoms, Roundtree, Stonum, Hemingway, Koger, Webb, and any others that step up this year. Thats a good set any way you throw them out there.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 12:21 AM | FWIW Roundtree's been practicing outside (Score:1)
those.who.stay.
those.who.stay.'s picture
Joined: 12/31/2008
MGoPoints: 2997

so far this spring.

Hide ya kids, hide ya wife.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 9:16 PM | Thanks for the info (Score:1)
kman23
kman23's picture
Joined: 08/03/2009
MGoPoints: 240

I didn't know that. Thanks for letting me know. I still think he's a better fit for slot since he's more slippery than fast but I'm not a coach.

Alex: Backup QB is the best position in sports. In fact I get drunk all the time, I don't have to show up to class, and it's just like being a real QB but without all the pain.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 12:49 AM | I think those three put up (Score:1)
UMfan21
Joined: 09/28/2009
MGoPoints: 1611

I think those three put up big numbers because the freshmen quarterbacks generally were not in the position to throw many deep balls.

I think that as the Oline gels, and the QBs learn the system you will see outside receivers put up some decent numbers too.

Overall, I don't disagree that all of the players listed are talented, I feel the numbers are skewed a bit.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 1:07 AM | Tight End, Empty Set, Jet Sweep (Score:1)
Birdman
Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 53

Denard QB.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 11:36 AM | We all salivate (Score:1)
victors2000
victors2000's picture
Joined: 03/21/2009
MGoPoints: 2159

at the prospect of Denard 'getting it' and becoming the phenom we all think he can be, but we need to keep in mind Tate is going to be a year better too. His game will be faster, his passing better, his generalship better; if Denard passes him up as the starting QB sometime in the future it's going to be because he grew into awesome, not because Tate couldn't get the job done. IMO.

p.s. 'Salivate' of course, is meant figuratively; for those of us who are literal about it...I don't know what to say.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. ~Dan Birdwell

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 9:18 PM | Accuracy Problems (Score:1)
kman23
kman23's picture
Joined: 08/03/2009
MGoPoints: 240

Yes 5 wide with a QB with Denard's speed would be amazing. But let's be honest, his accuracy doesn't exist beyond 10 yards. Sure he has a rocket but it's just as likely to hit grass or the opposing team as his WR hands. If Denard found Brady's long ball I'd say go this formation all season, I just don't think it's realistic.

Denard seems destined to be moved to a KR specialist who plays some slot.

Alex: Backup QB is the best position in sports. In fact I get drunk all the time, I don't have to show up to class, and it's just like being a real QB but without all the pain.

  • Login or register to post comments
April 1st, 2010 at 11:28 AM | Yes (Score:1)
Birdman
Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 53

I like to make quick to the point posts, but I should have clarified. This fantasy is based on this set being deployed rarely, with Robert still starting and getting most all the reps. Denard has a Jet Motion hand off to slot receiver ( odoms )and Koger like true TE. The rest explains it self, its still got lots of run option in it, would work a few times a game.

  • Login or register to post comments
April 2nd, 2010 at 1:33 AM | Ohhhh! I like the formation (Score:1)
kman23
kman23's picture
Joined: 08/03/2009
MGoPoints: 240

Ohhhh! I like the formation if it's a mix in. I was talking base formations and I was thinking 5 wide most plays is insane (unless you're Purdue).

Alex: Backup QB is the best position in sports. In fact I get drunk all the time, I don't have to show up to class, and it's just like being a real QB but without all the pain.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 3:02 AM | Roundtree outside with true Ninja slots (Score:1)
jbibiza
Joined: 10/08/2009
MGoPoints: 1798

I agree with your premise to get the best combination of receiving and blocking on the field at the same time, but my conclusions are somewhat different. Keep in mind that it is also important to have least two "guys that we can win with" at each position so that we have fresh legs at all times to create the up-tempo Offense that RR is striving for. Roundtree is not an ideal slot, but he will be fine on the outside - his height is not an issue and though he is a bit skinny he delivers a blow when blocking. (I sympathize with your "if it ain't broke don't fix it" feeling with regard to his success at slot, but feel that he can get open just as well from the outside; we need slots who are elusive and explosive on the bubble). Roundtree along with Stonum, Junior, and Stokes gives us four guys outside and do not sleep on either J-Rob or Ricardo who are both capable of playing right away to create more depth and insurance for injuries (I'm looking at you Mr. Hemingway).
In the slot we can rotate Odoms and Gallon and have T-Rob and Grady in reserve. As for Koger (and Webb) let's wait to see what the coaches have planned for the tight ends this year starting with "hold onto the damned ball!".

jbibiza

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 9:24 PM | While our outside WR have (Score:1)
kman23
kman23's picture
Joined: 08/03/2009
MGoPoints: 240

While our outside WR have promise none of them have steeped up. Stonum showed promise but didn't become a go-to guy. Hemingway is slower then Koger and is often injured. Miller and Jackson are both true freshman who have been mentioned as being more possession WR because of their lack of speed. And counting on Stokes to go from RS to a genuine deep threat seems unrealistic to me.

I mentioned moving Roundtree out wide but I don't like it. The outside WR are supposed to be deep threats. Roundtree doesn't have that speed. I think he fits the slot where the WR need to be more agile then fast. They just need to make the first man miss and make a move in a closed in space. That seems to be his specialty.

My point about moving Koger outside is that he's a reliable WR that has the same speed as Hemingway and that putting him out there gives our young QBs another target they can trust.

Alex: Backup QB is the best position in sports. In fact I get drunk all the time, I don't have to show up to class, and it's just like being a real QB but without all the pain.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 7:51 AM | Am I missing something? (Score:1)
OHbornUMfan
OHbornUMfan's picture
Joined: 01/22/2010
MGoPoints: 1853

Is there an issue with having Koger at TE, Odoms and Roundtree both in the slot, an outside WR, and a RB? With 5 OL and a QB, this adds up to 11, right? So, all can be on the field simultaneously without having to move one to outside WR or having to run 5 wides.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 8:48 AM | We would be limited in formations (Score:1)
cps2010
Joined: 08/08/2009
MGoPoints: 3481

We would have to be in trips closed (TE one side, 3 WR other side) or an unbalanced set, making Koger and ineligible receiver. (The latter usually being run-based formations.)

However, this is a nice option to mix in, and a fine idea.

On the other hand, I think Koger's blocking abilities were average at best, and horrendous on the perimeter. If he's going to drop passes, as well, I don't see the advantage of having him on the field. If, however, he has improved his blocking DBs in space and has lost his case of the dropsies, he's a very nice player.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 8:52 AM | yes actually (Score:1)
michiganfanforlife
michiganfanforlife's picture
Joined: 05/05/2009
MGoPoints: 898

The reason you can't have two slots without two outside recievers is that an uncovered WR can't be a slot. I guess you could have Koger outside of one of the WR's, but this is not a viable option to me. I think the point has already been made that we have a ton of talent on offense that simply can't all be on the field at once. What's the problem with that? I like having so many playmakers all over the field.

Watching Denard run the read option on mgoblue.com makes me think that he might quickly become the starting QB this year. If our read option is effective, the rest opens up. I like Tate better as a passer when it comes to reading defenses, but when the D is scared that Denard will take it to the house - our WR's will be open like a 7-11.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 10:01 AM | Trips, as mentioned below. (Score:1)
OHbornUMfan
OHbornUMfan's picture
Joined: 01/22/2010
MGoPoints: 1853

Trips, as mentioned below.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 11:17 AM | Oh please let this happen; if (Score:1)
victors2000
victors2000's picture
Joined: 03/21/2009
MGoPoints: 2159

Oh please let this happen; if Tate and Denard were suddenly 1 and 1a, that would be frickin' awesome! Tate with his uncanny passing accuracy and Denard with his world class quicks and speed, that would be great. Hopefully Denard's progress is as true as it sounds, but either way the offense is going to ROLL this year, mark my words!!!

GO BLUE!!1!!1

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. ~Dan Birdwell

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 9:26 PM | Definition of slot (Score:1)
kman23
kman23's picture
Joined: 08/03/2009
MGoPoints: 240

If the slot WR is the outside WR he is no longer the slot. The slot position doesn't mean lining up 10 yards off the TE, it means being between the line and the outside WR. By definition (unless you're in trips) you can't have more slots then outside WR.

Alex: Backup QB is the best position in sports. In fact I get drunk all the time, I don't have to show up to class, and it's just like being a real QB but without all the pain.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 8:41 AM | I don't know how... (Score:1)
Elno Lewis
Elno Lewis's picture
Joined: 12/05/2008
MGoPoints: 1143

corches would survive without the friendly and helpful advice from the fanbase.

Time wounds all heels. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwGXMryTbwE

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 8:55 AM | ... (Score:1)
michiganfanforlife
michiganfanforlife's picture
Joined: 05/05/2009
MGoPoints: 898

potato salad

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 10:45 AM | I want (Score:1)
Murph
Murph's picture
Joined: 07/30/2008
MGoPoints: 135

I want to dip my balls in it!

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 7:26 PM | That... (Score:1)
Search4Meaning
Joined: 01/06/2010
MGoPoints: 2815

would take balls!

Wolverine Nation Unite!

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 7:25 PM | Coaches could be helped too (Score:1)
Search4Meaning
Joined: 01/06/2010
MGoPoints: 2815

Don't ever forget the coaches.

Wolverine Nation Unite!

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 9:27 PM | What? (Score:1)
kman23
kman23's picture
Joined: 08/03/2009
MGoPoints: 240

I'm not trying to coach! I just am interested in solving the situation. I didn't know that trying to figure something out equated to thinking I was more qualified then RRod.

Alex: Backup QB is the best position in sports. In fact I get drunk all the time, I don't have to show up to class, and it's just like being a real QB but without all the pain.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 10:15 AM | Roundtree?? (Score:1)
evenyoubrutus
evenyoubrutus's picture
Joined: 11/04/2008
MGoPoints: 3928

Last I heard the coaches see him as one of those dual-threat guys; meaning he can play both slot and outside. Hence, if you want Odoms (or Gallon) and Koger on the field with him you just use your Roundtree-outside package. I don't think it's that complicated. At least not so complicated it needs an entire diary to explain it.

"You smiled, luring me on
My heart was gone, you were temptation"
 

RAVEN - Remember Affect Verb Effect Noun

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 12:31 PM | The real problem will be when (Score:1)
michWolves2580
michWolves2580's picture
Joined: 12/16/2009
MGoPoints: 735

Junior Hemingway comes back... then you have stonum and hemingway ( 2 clear outside guys) with roundtree gallon odoms and koger to play inside. Sounds like an great problem to have

Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 9:30 PM | What does Hemingway really bring? (Score:1)
kman23
kman23's picture
Joined: 08/03/2009
MGoPoints: 240

What does Hemingway bring? I don't understand the fascination with him. Outside of that 1 amazing catch opening game he's done very little. He's too slow to beat a CB deep. He's not agile so he can't play slot. He's short and he doesn't block amazingly well. And his career has been injury plagued. That's not his fault and it has certainly limited his ability to develop but to trust him to be a #1 outside WR is ridiculous in my opinion.

I think he's a good bet to miss 4-6 games and in the games he'll play he'll get 2-3 catches for 30-45 yards. I'd expect much more out of a starting WR.

I think Stonum and Stokes should both be ahead of Hemingway on the depth chart. But on 1st and 10 you can put Koger out wide and then substitute in Stokes for both Koger and Stonum.

Alex: Backup QB is the best position in sports. In fact I get drunk all the time, I don't have to show up to class, and it's just like being a real QB but without all the pain.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 11:04 AM | Having the Offense spread 5 (Score:1)
shinbo
Joined: 08/25/2009
MGoPoints: 0

Having the Offense spread 5 wide with Denard in a QB draw doesn't sound too shabby either.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 11:18 AM | not to mention that going 5 (Score:1)
Jedelman11
Jedelman11's picture
Joined: 12/15/2008
MGoPoints: 816

not to mention that going 5 wide with either Denard or Tate allows the QB to take off right up the middle on any broken plays.

Given Tate's ankle breaking against ND, and Denard's TD rush on his first play, I think a 5 wide look with a mobile QB is the perfect wrinkle to open the deep routes.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 12:16 PM | The key to this working (Score:1)
OHbornUMfan
OHbornUMfan's picture
Joined: 01/22/2010
MGoPoints: 1853

is actually connecting on some of those deep routes early in the year so that DCs have to respect the possibility that one of those 5 receivers might end the play with the ball in his hands. This quickly revealed itself not to the case last year.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 9:33 PM | Sure fire way to have injured QBs (Score:1)
kman23
kman23's picture
Joined: 08/03/2009
MGoPoints: 240

Yeah this sounds great if you want our QBs to get hurt. Having the QB lead the team in rushes over a year is guaranteed to result in having our 2 QBs, that weigh under 200 lbs each, hurt and miss games. Not to mention that when Denard is at QB everyone knows he's running.

This idea makes no sense to me. I'd like to see Tate run a lot less this year and hopefully as a result he'll last all year. I'm not saying I want him to act like John Navarre but those rushes for 1-2 yards aren't worth the hit he generally receives.

Alex: Backup QB is the best position in sports. In fact I get drunk all the time, I don't have to show up to class, and it's just like being a real QB but without all the pain.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 11:20 AM | except (Score:1)
steviebrownforh...
Joined: 02/01/2009
MGoPoints: 2496

that MSU's defensive coaches figured out that Denard usually runs when he's in the game. quite an observant bunch up there in EL.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 12:01 PM | yeah let's just hope he has (Score:1)
shinbo
Joined: 08/25/2009
MGoPoints: 0

yeah let's just hope he has improved enough since then to become a consistent threat, even still I think defenses will still have to account for 5 spread wide giving Denard space. Denard in space is something to watch. Denard pumpfake for the win?

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 4:32 PM | sorry - should have been more clear (Score:1)
steviebrownforh...
Joined: 02/01/2009
MGoPoints: 2496

this was a smart-ass comment regarding the announcer's treatment of Denard being put in at QB vs. MSU last year. Every time Denard would go in they would say "The MSU coaching staff figured out Robinson runs 80% of the time he's in the game." as if this was some coaching miracle or secret. I just found it hilarious.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 11:54 AM | Options 1 and 2 have already (Score:1)
Magnus
Magnus's picture
Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 22748

Options 1 and 2 have already been done.

Option 3 isn't likely.

Option 4 is kind of silly. Put your best players on the field and let them play.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 21

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 9:35 PM | Okay...? (Score:1)
kman23
kman23's picture
Joined: 08/03/2009
MGoPoints: 240

Roundtree didn't play outside last year (I don't think). I know Koger played some H-Back, I mentioned that specifically!

I agree with Option #4 not making sense, that's why I wrote this post!

Alex: Backup QB is the best position in sports. In fact I get drunk all the time, I don't have to show up to class, and it's just like being a real QB but without all the pain.

  • Login or register to post comments
April 1st, 2010 at 2:09 PM | I'm saying, Roundtree has (Score:1)
Magnus
Magnus's picture
Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 22748

I'm saying, Roundtree has already been moved to outside WR (this spring) and Koger has already started playing some fullback/H-back (this spring).

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 21

  • Login or register to post comments
April 2nd, 2010 at 1:39 AM | In today's Spring Stuff (Score:1)
kman23
kman23's picture
Joined: 08/03/2009
MGoPoints: 240

In today's Spring Stuff article it mentions Roundtree is playing outside WR due to the injuries of Hemingway and Stokes. That makes me think it's not a change we'll see this fall.

But the fact that the staff is already moving someone outside means that my premise (of moving Koger outside) isn't that far off. The team is looking for another outside WR.

At USC Mike Williams played outside WR. Now everyone knows from his Lions days how slow this kid was. But in college he dominated because of his route running, hands, height and he was part of a great offense. There is no way that Koger isn't just as fast as Mike Williams. He's the same height, he has good hands, he can block and if he's out there with Odoms, Roundtree, Stonum/Stokes/Hemingway, and whoever is at RB then he'll be in an amazing offense. If Koger was listed as a WR then nobody would think twice about having him outside.

Alex: Backup QB is the best position in sports. In fact I get drunk all the time, I don't have to show up to class, and it's just like being a real QB but without all the pain.

  • Login or register to post comments
April 3rd, 2010 at 12:48 PM | I don't even know where to (Score:1)
Magnus
Magnus's picture
Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 22748

I don't even know where to begin with this comment.

Roundtree is not playing outside WR due to the injuries. He's playing outside WR. The reasons are outside of your knowledge (and mine).

Moving beyond that, though, why would the coaches move a kid just for the spring? That's not helping the individual player, the quarterback, or the team. They're kidding their best players on the field, and one of those players is Roundtree.

Your "premise" is not moving Koger to the outside. And besides that, moving a TE to WR is a much bigger change than moving a SR to WR. On top of that, you usually see wide receivers moving to tight end, not the other way around.

How do you know Koger is as fast/faster than Mike Williams? Oh yeah...you don't.

Furthermore, did you notice that Koger wasn't getting the ball at the end of the season? That's likely because he dropped several passes, including a couple easy ones. So saying that he has "good hands" and using Mike Williams (who had great hands in college, if not the NFL) as a comparison is somewhat far-fetched.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 21

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 12:06 PM | They've had Roundtree outside (Score:1)
JC3
Joined: 07/17/2009
MGoPoints: 1299

They've had Roundtree outside with Stonum on the other side, and Gallon and Odoms in the slot together. That's something I'm really excited to see in the fall.

Twitter // MaizeNBrew

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 12:26 PM | I dont get the problem (Score:1)
michWolves2580
michWolves2580's picture
Joined: 12/16/2009
MGoPoints: 735

Roundtree and Stonum play outside. There is a slight issue in the slot because their will be competition between odoms and gallon for the primary slot position. But for the most part, Koger is a tight end. He plays stand up in the slot sometimes, sometimes in an H back/wing position, and a lot of the time in a 3 point stance as a tight end.

Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 9:39 PM | Response (Score:1)
kman23
kman23's picture
Joined: 08/03/2009
MGoPoints: 240

First off, Odoms is clearly ahead of Gallon in the slot. Odoms was the #1 slot guy last year and only lost it due to injury. When Roundtree was resting Michigan put Grady in. He might be ahead of Gallon on the depth chart.

I mentioned moving Roundtree outside but I don't like it. First off you want the QBs safety valves (the guy you throw to when you're scrambling) to be closer to the QB, so in the slot. Secondly, Roundtree led the team last year from the slot. Why make him learn a new position with new routes. Also, I don't think his skills match up with outside WR as well as in the slot.

Alex: Backup QB is the best position in sports. In fact I get drunk all the time, I don't have to show up to class, and it's just like being a real QB but without all the pain.

  • Login or register to post comments
April 1st, 2010 at 12:34 PM | odoms is hurt (Score:1)
michWolves2580
michWolves2580's picture
Joined: 12/16/2009
MGoPoints: 735

and grady has been playing RB in spring practice. Im not disagreeing that odoms is ahead of both but Gallon has been getting many reps this spring.

Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 1:45 PM | Kroger deep? (Score:1)
Robokid
Joined: 01/26/2010
MGoPoints: -372

Did you say put Kroger for our deep threat? I am no coach but if I were playing I would think that there is a lot more talent to put out there than kroger. He is a good TE but not a deep threat there are a lot more people I would put in before I would put him in. ( For a deep threat) If I read the thread wrong someone correct me.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 4:28 PM | KOGER. (Score:1)
bjk
Joined: 11/27/2009
MGoPoints: 754

That is all.

  • Login or register to post comments
March 31st, 2010 at 8:10 PM | Mmmm...groceries. (Score:1)
Captain
Captain's picture
Joined: 06/12/2009
MGoPoints: 11290

Mmmm...groceries.

Colors That Float

  • Login or register to post comments
  • 1
  • 2
  • next ›
  • last »
Powered by Drupal, an open source content management system
Theme provided by Roopletheme; sidebars adapted from Chris Murphy.