Does Scout have a lot more 5 stars than the other recruiting services?
things go poorly
As promised, here is where the recruiting rankings stand with two days until Signing Day 2013. Michigan still has command of the board, and a few of the Big Ten's best programs still languish in the bottom half of the rankings. Link to last rankings (too many changes to list).
|Big Ten+ Recruiting Class Rankings|
|Rank||School||# Commits||Rivals Avg||Scout Avg||24/7 Avg||ESPN Avg||Avg Avg^||POINTS*|
^The average of the average rankings of the four recruiting services (the previous four columns). The figure is calculated based on the raw numbers and then rounded, so the numbers above may not average out exactly.
*The product of number of Commits and Average Average
NOTE: Unranked recruits are counted as two-star players.
On to the full data after the jump.
|#1 Michigan - 27 Commits|
|Maurice Hurst Jr.||DT||MA||3||4||4||3|
The Wolverines add top-ranked RB Derrick Green, IN OL Dan Samuelson, and OH CB Reon Dawson.
|#2 Notre Dame - 23 Commits|
|Torii Hunter Jr.||WR||TX||4||4||4||4|
The Irish lose commitments from Alex Anzalone and Jamel James, but pick up Max Redfield, Tarean Folston, and Durham Smythe.
|#3 Ohio State - 23 Commits|
|Corey Smith (JC)||WR||MS||4||4||4||4|
The Buckeyes move into third after landing TX LB Mike Mitchell, GA LB Trey Johnson, JUCO MS WR Corey Smith, and OH LB Christopher Worley (not to be confused with Michigan DL Chris Wormley).
|#4 Nebraska - 25 Commits|
|Randy Gregory (JC)||DE||AZ||4||4||4||4|
|Matt Finnin (JC)||OL||IL||3||4||3||3|
|Chongo Kondolo (JC)||OL||CA||3||3||3||3|
The Huskers add CA RB Terrell Newby, MO DT Maliek Collins, IL OL Matt Finnen, ONT (yes, Canada) OL David Knevel, LA S Tre'vell Dixon, LA TE Cethan Carter, FL CB Boaz Joseph, CA OL Chongo Kondolo, FL DT Kevin Maurice, TX DE Mimarya Mixon, FL DE Ernest Suggles, and CA S Drake Martinez. They do suffer three decommitments, including OL Dan Samuelson (Michigan).
|#5 Illinois - 26 Commits|
|Abens Cajuste (JC)||DT||CA||3||3||3||3|
|Dallas Hinkhouse (JC)||OL||IA||3||3||3||2|
|Martize Barr (JC)||WR||IA||3||3||2||3|
|Zane Petty (JC)||S||CA||2||3||3||3|
|Eric Finney (JC)||S||CA||2||2||2||3|
The Illini get commitments from FL DE Paul James, FL WR Dionte Taylor, FL S James Crawford, and IL CB Jaylen Dunlap; they also lose four commits, including OH CB Reon Dawson (Michigan).
|#6 Rutgers - 22 Commits|
|Delon Stephenson (JC)||CB||NY||3||3||3||3|
The Scarlet Knights lose commitments from FL LB Skai Moore and Australian punter Dean Crozier; they pick up FL CB Janarion Grant and NY LB Devan Carter to replace them.
|#7 Maryland - 20 Commits|
|Deon Long (JC)||WR||IA||5||3||4||4|
|Silvano Altamirano (JC)||OL||CA||2||2||2||3|
The Terps pick up FL CB Will Likely, FL DE Chandler Burkett, and JUCO CA OL Silvano Altamirano.
|#8 Michigan State - 18 Commits|
The Spartans add FL S Justin Williams, FL DT Noah Jones, and ONT DT James Bodanis.
|#9 Northwestern - 19 Commits|
|Anthony Walker Jr.||LB||FL||3||3||3||3|
The Wildcats lose CA DE Raymond Davison.
|#10 Purdue - 20 Commits|
|Ra-Zahn Howard (JC)||DT||GA||2||NR||3||3|
The Boilermakers add OH DE Antoine Miles, OH WR Dan Monteroso, FL WR Deangelo Yancey, IL DE Evan Panfil, FL TE Matt Burke, IL DT Johnny Daniels, FL LB Garrett Hudson, OH LB Dezwan Polk, and OH OL Jason Tretter.
|#11 Iowa - 19 Commits|
|Derrick Mitchell Jr.||S||MO||3||3||3||3|
|Damond Powell (JC)||WR||UT||3||2||3||3|
The Hawkeyes land MI CB Desmond King, TX WR Anjeus Jones, IA LB Josey Jewell, and NJ RB Akrum Wadley.
|#12 Penn State - 18 Commits|
|Tyler Ferguson (JC)||QB||CA||2||2||4||3|
No new additions to Penn State's class.
|#13 Indiana - 19 Commits|
|Steven Funderburk (JC)||LB||IA||2||2||3||2|
|Jordan Heiderman (JC)||DT||IA||2||2||2||2|
The Hoosiers lose TX DT Jacobi Hunter and gain FL CB Nigel Tribune, who is somehow not a British reporter.
|#14 Wisconsin - 16 Commits|
The Badgers lose CA S Tyler Foreman and pick up MA CB Jakarrie Washington and CA LB Leon Jacobs.
|#15 Minnesota - 14 Commits|
|Jordan Hinojosa (JC)||DT||KS||3||2||2||2|
|Damien Wilson (JC)||LB||MS||2||2||3||3|
The Gophers lose AL WR Nate Andrews and FL CB Nate Godwin and pick up CA WR Drew Wolitarsky, IN TE Nate Wozniak, FL LB Rayfield Dixon, and FL K Ryan Santoso
Does Scout have a lot more 5 stars than the other recruiting services?
yes, they give anyone in the top 50 5 stars.
Scout changed that this year. The top 50 aren't automatically 5 stars anymore. They have 42 this year and I believe that is final.
the total number of JC recruits is considerably more than most years.
Perhaps some schools are going for the JuCo insta-help due to last years conference wide disappointment?
...since they only have 3 in-state recruits. Very surprised by that number, really very low...
I was surprised as well. Michigan has 9 Ohio players and 8 Michigan players which is also crazy. Plus Ohio State has no Michiganders and 10 Ohioans- only 1 more than us. For reference ND has 1 Michigan commit and 2 Ohio commits and MSU has the three MI u referenced and 5 Ohio kids. Yes Meyer is taking top talent across the country in a way Tressel maybe didn't- but a lot of Ohio talent is ending up on rival teams.
Can we drop Notre Dame from this like they dropped us for the ACC?
Can we drop the complaints about ND being listed in these posts? Every time someone complains and ND's presence has been explained enough times that people should stop complaining.
For the 10 billionth time: We still play them, they're a major power in our recruiting base, and a good standard to measure up against
"We still play them"--Yes, we play them 2 more times. TWO. You know who else we have on the schedule two more times in the near future? Utah, so throw them up on the board.
"they're a major power in our recruiting base"--I'll give you this, but they are a much larger national draw, especially with their continued games in California. And let's just throw in the joke about major power here (har har har)
"good standard to measure up against"--So is Alabama, put them on the board. Texas? Sure. Florida? Add another. USC? Of course. LSU, Georgia, Oklahoma? Yes, Yes, and Yes.
While I understand the point you're making, it would be just as well to leave them off as it is to keep them on there.
Having ND on the board doesn't hurt anything, and is more information. All things being equal, more information is better than less information.
You do make a good point, however--I think having regular updates on the recruiting classes of future Michigan opponents and national powerhouses like Alabama & USC would be a nice addition. That might make for a good regular diary, if anyone has the time & inclination.
You do make SOME good points, individually...Yes, Alabama is a good standard, but they aren't on our future schedule and aren't necessarily in our recruiting base, and not as much for either of the others you mentioned. ND is in all three categories...we are playing them, they are moreso in our recruiting base and they're a good standard.
Again, this is well covered ground. You're not going to come up with any revolutionary idea that will spontaneously change our minds. Can we stop now?
Hahaha every. single. time.
Like clockwork, "Why is Notre Dame here?" comments, almost immediately.
Things that stand out:
Notre Dame does not have a single player who someone doesn't rank a 4-star.
Penn State managing to hold onto seven guys with at least one 4-star ranking, including two 5-stars, even though most of these guys will have one shot at winning a Big Ten Championship or playing in a bowl game and that's if they RS. (Seriously, to me that's a miracle...I mean what is the incentive? How can Michigan, Notre Dame and Ohio State not be plundering those guys?)
Indiana has five 4-star guys while Iowa has none. Odd.
Pretty sure this past season was Year 1 of the 4 year ban...So the incoming freshmen would have one chance if they don't redshirt since the ban will be in effect for their first 3 years on campus and if they do RS they'll have two chances...assuming they're asked back/don't turn pro.
Ah good call, for some reason I thought it was a 5 year ban.
Yeah, but that's ignoring the scholarship reductions. They'd be hard pressed to be bowl eligible when they only have 60 scholarship players.
We'll see. Even Minnesota can get bowl eligible, and look at the kinds of classes they've been signing. PSU's top end talent is still better than most of the Big Ten outside the big two.
It looks like Nebraska went on a mad dash to fill 12 spots since the start of the new year. Are their commits quality players? It looks like they took commitments from across the entire country.
I don't know anything about the specific guys Nebraska signed. But if you are scrambling to pull a whole bunch of recruits at the 11th-hour, I'm thinking it's more likely those guys are mostly either projects or role-players rather than underrated gems. I realize Nebraska has always done it without necessarily having the best talent; still, I'd be a bit nervous about this class if I was a Husker fan.
...is behind both Maryland and Rutgers? Ouch.
Also, Illinois looks like it has a decent class. On second look it just seems to be a lot of two and three star guys.
Not really. MSU has a higher star average. Don't mistake the order the teams are listed as actual "rankings".
|Points Rank||Avg Rank||School||# Commits||Avg Avg^||POINTS*|
Michigan Top 22 "Avg-Avg" = 3.86
OSU Top 22 "Avg-Avg" = 3.83
Comes with its flaws too. Michigan has 4 more commits than notre dame. If you eliminate the 4 extra kids, all of whom are generic 3 star sorts, then suddenly the average increases. However, nobody would argue the class would be better off with nobody as opposed to the 4 extra kids.
How this for a head scratcher.
ESPN either has, or is tied for, the highest average rank for 11 of the 15 schools. It has the highest for every school in the top 10 except for us. and we are the only school of the 15 to have espn give the lowest score.
Color me jealous.
Never something I could hide
recruits are battled between OSU-ND-UM with our deep focus on MI and OH while they hunt nationally.
OSU has only 2 OL (Hunt chose Oregon) and 1 RB (who might flip to Mizzou) with 23 recruits. Meanwhile MSU has only 3 MI kids. Peculiar.
The RB who might flip is Ezekiel Elliot- Missouri's top high school recruit.
His parents are both Mizzour grads- this article has a good write up: http://www.rockmnation.com/2013/1/24/3909670/ezekiel-elliott-to-visit-mizzou-this-weekend and this one also does http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/359342/6/Ezekiel-Elliott-has-a-big-decision-to-make, plus that one has this gem of a quote, "Elliot made his official visit to Mizzou this past weekend and accroding to his father, it couldn't have went better. The highlight for Elliot was the M-I-Z, E-Z-E chant at the basketball game." One- the chant is very cool for a highschool kid to hear; two, seriously, couldn't have went any better? It references a quote from the father but doesn't give the quote- so the poor grammar their is pretty weird...
One of my friend's coaches at a school who played John Burrough's- the private school outside of St. Louis where he plays- and I have seen him play also (this year and last)- he is a pretty impressive back. Plus their coach is Gus Frerotte, who, according to the coach I know, is a pretty cool guy also (cool story bro I know...)
It'd be nice if all the last minute recruting Meyer has done turns some guys away and doesn't catch anyone.. Let's hope Elliot goest to Mizzou!
Will Likely will likely have many announcers make dumb jokes with his name.
Has such a weak class that it makes me wonder of bielema planned to leave all along and sort of mailed it in this recruiting year. For a rose bowl caliber team, that's an abysmal class.
Actually, looking back at the Scout rankings, this is one of the better Wisconsin classes of the last 10+ years.
That's surprising. I guess their low ranking is partly a function of this class rating system heavily rating quantity. For example, a class consisting of the top 10 players and those 10 only would be around 11th on this list. Not sure if that's fair or unfair, just an observation.
"Give us your low rated but massive, massive guys. We will rebuild them. Make them bigger, stronger, marginally faster."
Then you put a Ball or another excellent running back behind them and pick up a servicable graduate QB and you've got a recipe for 10 wins.
They had a nice little season this year. I really thought they'd reel in a better class. Only 9 guys before you hit 2-star land. Minny needs to pony up the dough for a high quality assistant staff that can recruit.
I know it's a small class (17), but I find it hard to believe that one of those 4 stars committed to Marshal or Tulsa or whatever wouldn't seriously consider Minny. As it is, it doesn't look like they have any other recruits interested in them any higher than the guys they've already got, and I don't think they have any more slots besides.
It probably doesn't help that when Jerry sits down in a recruit's living room, he's got a 50-50 chance of foaming at the mouth.
Lets make fun of a man with a dangerous medical condition...
Alright. I knew that was close to the line but I couldn't resist. Mea culpa.
I'm actually a pretty big fan of Jerry Kill because I am from Saginaw and he used to be the coach at SVSU. I wouldn't have cracked the joke if anything seriously bad had happened to the guy. (And now I suppose I will be lectured on the perils of seizures by someone with a UM medical degree, which is what makes this blog so great...)
Anyone notice Minnesota has only one in-state player? I'm starting to think my bar conversation was true and Minnesota is purely a hockey state.
I was surprised by how few OL there are in some of those hauls, especially the bottom half.
Now that the series is ending does ND recruiting matter to us? Will we still be going against them in recruiting?
Its great to see Michigan on top but its a little disappointing to see them getting beat in the averages by Ohio and ND. Its not necessarily surprising considering those two teams went 12-0 and 12-1, respectively, but still a bit disappointing.
<insert obligatory rationalization about the value of star rankings and Hoke & Co's ability to recognized under-rated talent here>
I had the same thought, but we are heading in the right direction. Remember that coaches generally start recruiting kids and developing school pipelines before those kids are rising juniors. Hoke, having only been at Michigan, had to come in and start from scratch. With the exception of a few kids that he may have spoken to while at SDSU, he was an unknown to many of these kids. Also, for many of the kids in the 2013 class, the last time that Michigan was a real power was when they were in junior high school, if not before then. Most recent memories of us involve inept defense, 2 coaching changes, a drawn out should-we-fire-richrod process, and a perception of an offense that primarily featured a single player to the detriment of tight ends, fullbacks, receivers and running backs.
The past two years have helped Hoke change that perception, and I expect that it will change further next season, when Hoke runs an offense more in line with what he intends to run in the future with Devin under center. Every year that goes by allows Hoke to further develop his pipeline and relationships with top kids, so I expect that we will even out with OSU shortly.
That all said, Meyer is an amazing recruiter, helped by his recent national championships, ESPN gig and overall media star persona.
You make a very good point re: patience. I think I (like many others?) just want the program to be "back" immediately after the past years of frustration. But it doesn't work that way. Hoke has obviously blown Dantonio out of the water, winning back the state, but it looks like he's going to have a little work to do to put Meyer and Kelly to rest. That said, the class is definitely amazing and I'm excited to see them improve each year.
The quality at the top is very, ver similar. As somebody computed above, Michigan has a slight quality lead if you only take each classes' top 22. It's those 5 extra guys at the bottom of Michigan's class that pulls the ranking down just a smidge.
What stands out to me is how poor the recruiting is at the bottom of the Big Ten... especially when you compare it to the bottom of the PAC-12 (or whatever the hell they're called now) and the SEC. I haven't really followed recruiting beyond Michigan before, so I don't know if it's always been that bad for the bottom half of the conference, but it definitely makes one worry about ever catching up to the stature of the SEC.
|2.||Ohio State||24||Big Ten||4819||7||3||16||5||9||14||1||23||1||3.92|
|37.||Michigan State||18||Big Ten||2073||0||0||4||11||7||10||1||18||0||3.06|
|38.||Penn State||17||Big Ten||2060||2||2||2||8||8||9||0||16||1||3.06|
|15.||Oklahoma State||23||Big 12||2658||0||0||5||15||11||11||1||21||2||3.09|
|35.||West Virginia||24||Big 12||2172||0||0||2||16||13||10||1||17||7||2.75|
|60.||Kansas State||19||Big 12||1451||0||0||1||10||5||13||1||12||7||2.63|
|64.||Texas Tech||21||Big 12||1406||0||0||1||8||12||9||0||16||5||2.43|
|69.||Iowa State||22||Big 12||1331||0||0||1||8||14||8||0||19||3||2.32|
This is absolutely beyond sad. This site clearly has zero credibility, as OSU is the consensus number 2 class in the nation and ranked ahead of Michigan and Notre Dame on every recruiting website there is. Funny how a Michigan site would be the only one to make up some rankings and put themselves ahead of OSU just so it's a little easier to sleep at night and avoid the inevitable. Don't get me wrong, Michigan has a GREAT class, but nobody can honestly believe it should be ranked higher even on this site. Now in a few years when we see how the classes pan out, it's very possible that Michigans class can be looked upon as better, but come on people, this is just sad. Even eleven warriors is objective enough that for most of the recruiting year they had OSU rightfully behind Michigan and Notre Dame in the rankings but after the Mike Mitchell and Trey Johnson commitments they left Michigan and Notre Dame behind. Now with Von Bell and James Clark it's clear which class is the best. It'll be interesting to see where these classes rank moving forward as these players get to their respective school, yet something tells me you all won't like the results...