was it all a crazy plot to get what he wanted? "A way to exceed expectations is to manage them [laughs]. We were in a situation where it was absolutely unclear what the ultimate decision was going to be and I wanted to make that known that it was unclear and the fan reaction was very helpful and very important."
Presser Instant Recap
Filed under:
Allegations
The University received a notice of allegations last night and held this press conference in response. Tim is currently holding the notice right now and it should be available online soon, but what I gathered from the press conference:
- Michigan checked up on and punished players for missing class in the summer, as suggested earlier.
- QC assistants overstepped their bounds and did some prohibited coaching activities.
- The infamous Sunday workouts from the Free Press article were indeed too long. By 20 minutes. Because it's unclear what exactly counts when it comes to stretching. Similarly, there were instances where Michigan may have been over the 20 hour weekly maximum by about two hours because of similar stretching-related issues.
Your initial take on this is likely to be "WTF where's the beef," and… yeah. 1 and 3 seem incredibly minor items that will draw something even less than a slap on the wrist. Possibly an unpleasant poke. Two, depending on exactly what that entails, could warrant a bonafide slap. Nothing found comes close to the Free Press's WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN reporting, which brazenly suggested that Michigan was exceeding allowable maximums by a factor of more than two.
Free Press: Fail
Let's stew on that: it was immediately apparent to anyone who did a cursory google search on the topic that allowable practice limits are a supremely gray area that every program in the country does an end-around on. This did not appear in the article. This is what the article suggested:
Players spent at least nine hours on football activities on Sundays after games last fall. NCAA rules mandate a daily 4-hour limit. The Wolverines also exceeded the weekly limit of 20 hours, the athletes said.
This was blatantly dishonest at the time and—surprise!—it turns out that Michigan is not blowing through NCAA regulations without care. The infamous Sunday activities were 20 minutes over. Because of confusion about stretching.
Repeat What?
First: I don't think this is going to be a big deal. But Brandon did bring up that apparently Michigan is still under probation for the Ed Martin thing because the NCAA case took forever to conclude and since the allegations date back a couple years now that Michigan was technically five months away from getting out from under that. For something that happened 15 years and two athletic directors ago.
Brandon was very clear that the NCAA takes these sorts of things into consideration and it was not likely to be a problematic thing, especially given the nature of the current allegations, but he brought it up. So I'm bringing it up.
Brandon: Pimp
Anyone who had any doubts about Dave Brandon's suitability as athletic director, and there were a few, must have dumped them about five minutes into this press conference. Brandon was epic. He gave transparent, honest answers that sound a lot like the fictional Rich Rodriguez who lives only in my (and perhaps your) head. You know, the one that passionately argues the case for Demar Dorsey with unassailable logic.
Brandon's Q&A session was a combination of justified deflection, smooth answers to hard questions, and one totally unambiguous declaration that nothing in the NCAA report would impact Rich Rodriguez's job security. Many people in the liveblog were giving it to Birkett for that question, but isn't it much, much better that it was asked and answered so forcefully? If it's not asked then this news cycle includes a bunch of questions about that. Now there are no questions.
Timeline
Michigan has 90 days to provide a response and there will be an NCAA hearing in early August. If Michigan chooses to self impose sanctions—which was broached just like that: "if"—it will probably happen after the response and, obviously, before the hearing.
Upshot
I am not entirely sure whether the allegations rise to the level of major violations but it certainly doesn't sound like it. Scholarship reductions seem exceedingly unlikely. More ASAP.
[UPDATE: Okay. Tim has just provided the documents and they explicitly state that the allegations "are considered to be potential major violations" and that if the institution believes any of them should be classified as secondary they should present that in their response.]
Dr. Saturday
Not surprisingly, Dr. Saturday gets it right. Here is the next to last paragraph:
Know also that every program in the country -- and I'm pretty confident when I say every program -- would run afoul of at least one of those infractions (or similar ones; it's a big manual) on a somewhat regular basis, as the minimum cost of employing fallible human being while continuing to dead-lift with the Joneses. Other programs, however, weren't the target of an investigation by a major metropolitan newspaper that left no stone unturned in its efforts to make a splash against a high-profile program. Michigan was, which is why it was Michigan's coach, president and new athletic director (not even officially on the job for two more weeks) in front of the cameras today feigning contrition over barely spilt milk.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/NCAA-details...
February 24th, 2010 at 4:38 AM
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"are considered to be potential major violations"
F-cking hell.
Rich Rod had better put together one hell of a season this year if he wants to save his job. 2 crap seasons plus possible major violations? There'd be no defending him if he doesn't at least produce a winning season.
NCAA Violations
I think this is really stupid. If this is all the NCAA can come up with as violations they need to set back and contemplate their belly button a while. We nor the NCAA knows for sure what went on except for the checking up on kids in class and not counting stretching as part of the practice. Were the QC staff's involvement some sort of organized thing? If so that ought to be readily determined. If they were just there and saw some of the guys needing help and gave it, what's the big deal! As convoluted as the rules are, it's not unreasonable for someone to violate them and not know about it. Personally I think this is just the NCAA covering it's behind over a newspaper article that had the possibility of some major stuff and they are justifying their existence.
The NCAA and United Nations: A Comparison
All I have to say is that the NCAA has about as much credibility as the bullshit United Nations.
Iran (USC) "Piss off NCAA we will give SUVs to whomever we want. And then our RB will bang one of the Kardashian sisters." (after a terrible singer with an even worse show has rammed her).
North Korea (TENN)- "eat our poop NCAA we don't care if you don't like us sending hookers to watch players games." (I'm just suspecting that TENN has hookers working for them.)
France (MICH) - "we will bend over and take our punishments for having players stretch more than the alloted time, so that our huge v*&^%@ can stretch out in case the Germans show up and screw us again."
NCAA = WORTHLESS, CLUELESS, SPINELESS
this still seems like a bunch of
nothing to see here.
I have read everything, and thanks to chitownblue2, your posts were awesome. The thing is, I just don't see how this gets made into a big deal unless the Detroit Free Press goes out and hunts it down. This seems like stuff that you have to just keep digging and digging, and you eventually find, not something you specifically look for.
You know what all this reminds me of?
"I am Bender, please insert girder."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xLZsWFSZbc&feature=related
Bureaucrats, man!
Allegation Contradiction
A) Michigan's football program made sure student-athletes attended class.
B) Michigan's football program exceeded practice limits.
Isn't there an inherent contradiction in these allegations?
Either the program put too much emphasis on student-athlete education...
OR
...the program disregarded student-athlete education.
I understand that there's enough time in the week for both "violations" to have occurred, but don't these NCAA rules contradict each other? Since every school has the same number of hours in a day, days in a week, etc., I believe the primary intent behind the practice limit rule is to allow student-athletes time for their studies.
So what's the point of the rule that prohibits the program from checking a student's classroom attendance?
Like most failing institutions in the world, the NCAA has become a lumbering bureaucracy that contradicts itself to the point of defeating its own purpose.
So what's the point of the
So what's the point of the rule that prohibits the program from checking a student's classroom attendance?
It prohibits them from doing it only the off-season.
The point is that a sport cannot "have control" (for lack of a better term) over a player 365 days a year - that's why they say coaches can't hold practices, etc. There is supposed to be a clean break, and the player is supposed to have the opportunity to be a normal student when their sport isn't in season.
wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog
Yes but how is punishing them for not going to classes
A bad thing? Last I checked (no offense to some football players) football players probably should be going to every class to make sure that they pass every class.
That is their end of the bargain, go to class, pass classes, don't fail out, attempt to help the football team.
A normal student and a student athlete should be going to classes the same amount and to think that they shouldn't is fucking dumb.
"A house divided against itself cannot stand"
As someone who was an NCAA
As someone who was an NCAA athlete for 4 years:
A normal student wouldn't have to do 20 extra laps if they missed a class. There would be no punishment to them other than potentially doing worse in that class. The NCAA's premise is that the sport only controls the kid for the duration of the season - not outside of the season. They forbid ANY contact between the coaching staff and the players for this very reason.
They don't want a sport controlling kids year round. They don't want COMMUNICATION. It doesn't matter what the communication is.
You're also conflating "what's right" and "what the rule is". These are two different things. The NCAA enforces their rule. Not "what's right".
wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog
Um
Maybe I'm misinterpreting your argument here but athletes, especially those in D1 sports, have direct communication and sometimes participation with their coach/programs out of season.
As an example: Swimmer's at Auburn train with the school in season and when it's over, join the local swim club called "War Eagle Swim Club" during the spring and summer. The club's head coach just happens to be Auburn's head coach in the "off season", including all the staff.
I have witnessed this personally at about half a dozen schools in various sports and it seems common practice to me. Am I missing something here?
I know - I swam with Club
I know - I swam with Club Wolverine. I get the program.
But again - Club Wolverine (ad I assume War Eagle Swim Club) is an all-ages club that trains a predonderance of people who are not swimming on Michigan's team, in addition to a handful that do.
wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog
"what the rule is" and "intent" are two different things
I understand the rule.
But is the INTENT so that the program doesn't have "control" over the student-athlete 365 days/year? If the program is helping the student achieve their academic goals, then I shouldn't think so.
The real intent behind the rule is prevent programs from derailing students' academic goals. The rule wasn't created in fear that a program might make sure student-athletes attend class.
So what does "intent" have to do with it? The rule is "what the rule is", right? At this point you have to question the wisdom of the NCAA. These aren't legal allegations as brought down from state or federal law. This is some group of academics that make up a set of rules that are, however valid some may be, arbitrary. They can be flexible, rescinded, or evaluated in a case-by-case scenario.
Even in the world of criminal law, someone who assaults an airplane hijacker isn't automatically arrested for assault because "the law is what the law is".
So I go back to my original statement: two of the allegations contradict each other. Either the program was negligent of student academics or they were too conscientious of student academics.
So there can be no communication
between the players and the coaches in the off-season? I mean wasn't Lloyd Carr a fatherly figure to his kids? To me this rule seems ridiculous what happens if the student athletes want to go to their coach for advice or guidance because they trust them?
So while yes I agree I don't think that it's right. I don't think that it's wrong for coaches to want to "keep tabs" on their kids during the offseason to make sure that they stay eligible...
This is all just insanity...
"A house divided against itself cannot stand"
But bouje, you're only
But bouje, you're only looking at the potential contact as POSITIVE.
What if the coach called to cajole them to go to "voluntary" practices? What if they demanded that the kid go to a certain workshop? He's not allowed to have that influence.
The NCAA sees the potential for abuse should the relationship be open for the entire year, and bans ALL contact, as the potential for bad things exists. It's like their limits on the amount of money an NCAA athlete can work in a year. It's not that they "don't want kids working" it's that they don't want an Alabama booster to pay a kid $3000 a month to shovel snow out of his driveway in Tuscaloosa.
wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog
Do we not have a compliance
Do we not have a compliance staff?
I'm not offended, really, by what Michigan did in a moral sense, but I am offended by it's stupidity. We're running a multi-million dollar business apparently in ignorance of the fucking rules? "We didn't know" is pathetic - I was under the impression that we employed people whose job it was TO MAKE SURE we complied with NCAA regulations. Gah. Infuriating.
wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog
If this had happened at any other school
What do you think that the response would be? I assure you it would be "we don't know" and "we didn't know that this was a rule" because WTF else do you say "Yeah we knew it was a rule but FUCK THAT I DO WHAT I WANT!"
"A house divided against itself cannot stand"
This is the compliance
This is the compliance department that allowed Artis Chambers to cover kicks when he was academically ineligible. I buy that they didn't know, because they seem to be demonstrably incompetent.
wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog
100% Agree
The most infuriating part is that in March of '08, someone in compliance apparently said something about the QC thing and apparently didn't have the teeth or balls or whatever to follow it through and avoid this entire shit storm.
The one lesson that I think
The one lesson that I think every university will learn from this is to cultivate and maintain good relationships with the local media, especially in states where multiple programs reside. This article was clearly written with an intent to embarrass somebody at the University, whether it be RR, the AD, Mary Sue Coleman, etc. At the same time, major felonies are being brought against players at the other local school with relatively little fanfare. The narratives have been written by the local media, and they will be regurgitated and perpetuated for the foreseeable future.
So if I'm Auburn or Alabama, Florida, Florida St., or Miami, or even Okalhoma and Oklahoma St., I am making sure that I stay on good terms with the local beat writers, lest I fall victim to a similar attack. Now, this probably sounds like an overreaction by a UM fan, but we see it all the time in public discourse (esp. politics) - people's opinions are largely shaped by what they read, see, and hear from a few media sources, so if one of them has an ax to grind, what they report will likely color a large swath of their audience. As sad as it is, Rosenberg and Snyder have created a rather toxic environment surrounding the University with a few unreliable reports, and to think that similar muckraking couldn't happen somewhere else is unwise.
Media
This is why Bo et al. had such disdain for the media. I think Don Canham put it best when he said something to the effect of: "They can't help you when you're down and won't help you when you're up."
The fortress worked. Not blaming Rodriguez per se, but he did let them in --- and this is the result. It's like letting a vampire into your house.
That's right, Dude. 100% certain.
We think this is minor stuff ...
news outlets communicating major violatons. This disconnect only perpetuates this mess. Sounds like we have a summer and a bit more of waiting to finally get closure. Great. I was feeling good now not so sure.
Instant reaction by DetNews
First DetNews headline to come out of the conference:
"Michigan football found to have exceeded practice-time limits"
Comparatively, any time we see a misspelling in DetNews, we can accuse "DetNews found to have lied in article"...
prediction
The NCAA will use this situation to illustrate what does and doesn't count as countable hours and to clarify what quality control people can and cannot do. Also, Michigan will not receive much punishment.
"That's horrible."
"Terrible is what it is."
The leaders
Agree with this. We lead the way, and everyone else gets to quietly fix their problems with regard to countable hours and quality-control personnel.
I also agree that it's unlikely the NCAA will adopt the same level of punishment a school would get if they were caught doing this, say, next year, i.e., after these rules have been clarified.
In other words, Don't Panic!
Compliance
I agree with Brian that point #2 is most severe, while the others seem relatively minor.
However, I think Brian's treatment of #2 is a bit disingenuous. [EDIT: it seems that it doesn't even relate to the most serious of the allegations] The main issue here, as I've interpreted it, is probably not going to be specific instances of QC personnel overstepping their bounds. The big issue (and I've brought this up before) is the problem with compliance's role and power within the Athletic Department infrastructure.
That is, it appears that the NCAA does not consider M's compliance efforts to be in "good faith." In other words, that compliance was not *capable* of doing its job and simply existed as a toothless department kept in the proverbial doghouse -- this paints a very seedy picture of the program, overall. Brandon hinted at this when he talked about possible "intent."
It seems that the NCAA suspects that there was, in fact, intent to break the rules which was ignored by the rest of the AD. If this is the case, we should expect some major penalties. It may be tough for M to present a good defense of its compliance department, due to the non-existent practice logs fiasco.
We shall see. I'm just saying: Don't get your hopes up.
That's right, Dude. 100% certain.
I'm with you
I think the QC staff stuff is a potential big deal. Reading the allegations, it basically comes off like they hired five coaches above the minimum and tried to play them off as QC guys. TomahawkNation above implies that this is pretty common among big time football teams, and I have no idea if that's true or not. But, it comes off as more than an "honest mistake" or something like that. It comes off as a conscious effort to skirt the rules. Rules they should have known. On top of using QC guys as coaches, they appear to have bent even more rules by then having those QC guys not just attend voluntary off season stuff, but actively participate and run them. I have to think that is very bad. That is not an honest mistake in my mind, that is consciously trying to get around the rules. Add on to that the apparently attempts to lie to and deceive the Enforcement Staff by Herron and I would not be surprised for this to stick as a major violation or two and for somewhat significant penalties to come out of it.
IMO
and this wont be popular, but any major violation and rich should go. i dont know if there will be, i dont care if "other schools do it", rules are still rules and if they were severely broken to the point of penalties thats on no one elses head but rich's.
lloyd was better.
No, you have yet to say "Fire
No, you have yet to say "Fire Rodriguez!" and take the tomhagan route. But your opinions have always come with the typical "i can't believe anyone still supports this guy from west virginia."
We get it, you don't like Rodriguez. And you are entitled to that opinion. But this isn't exactly the time to be inflaming the overly stupid side of the fanbase. The free press is doing a fine job doing that. Hold the line.
Ha ha! Dangly parts.
I hope y'all don't get a penalty
Every team out there serious about playing big boy football (OSU, UM, USC, Texas, OU, LSU, Bama, UF, FSU, and a few others), use their quality control guys.
Did y'all self report? Please tell me you didn't have some douche on your own staff turn you in.
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