QB2? [Patrick Barron]

Fall Football Bits Delves Into Offensive Line Discussion Comment Count

Alex.Drain August 18th, 2023 at 9:00 AM

I've been meaning to do a fall football bits for some time, but the roar of rumors on the insider sites has been strangely quiet this season, especially compared to the past couple seasons. Only now is there enough information that I could reasonably cobble together one of these pieces, but it still feels a bit light. Is that a function of a team with few pressing questions or some other factor? Not really sure. Regardless, we do have just enough information to put one of these pieces together and there will hopefully be one more round before the season starts. [Note: this is the offense football bits, defense is this afternoon]

 

Quarterback

What we want to hear: JJ McCarthy has transformed into a deity in the flesh, reading defenses better than ever, his deep ball right on the money, and ready to elevate himself into legitimate Heisman conversation. Jack Tuttle and Davis Warren have been engaged in a fierce battle for the backup job where the winner would legitimately start at half the other schools in the conference, and even Alexi Orji and Jayden Denegal look ready to play. 

What we're hearing: Not much at all to be honest. Can't say it's surprising with a returning starter, but descriptions of McCarthy's play have been rather hard to find, with some focus on the backup spots. Most of what we've gotten on JJ ranges from the hyperbolic (Harbaugh labeling him "generational") to the mild, including details about his performance at last weekend's scrimmage. One source called it merely good ($), another used higher praise ($). Make of that what you want. Most of the other chatter about the squad's valiant starting QB has been about intangibles, leadership, that sort of thing. Nothing terribly interesting. 

As for the backup position, there's been mixed signals here. It's between Jack Tuttle and Davis Warren, with Warren getting the extra reps at the scrimmage. Some have interpreted that as an indication that he's the clear QB2 ($), but reports earlier in camp were more favorable to Tuttle ($). When Sherrone Moore did a press conference last week, he gave no indication when asked specifically about Tuttle. Beyond those two, Denegal got a quick shoutout in one scrimmage summary but otherwise has mostly been absent in chatter. JJ was effusive in his praise of both Denegal and Alex Orji at a press conference early in camp, but that's mostly run of the mill from someone in McCarthy's position. 

I would be remiss not to note the real chatter about Alex Orji, which is his potential acumen as a kick returner??? There were rumblings in insider reporting about a "special way to use Orji" that could not be divulged as if it were a state secret, only for Harbaugh to come out and say it himself publicly

"Also a secret plan for Alex Orji,” Harbaugh said. “Got a chance to be maybe one of the greatest kick returners of all time. Big 230-235 pound guy, so he just started doing it, we’ll see how it goes"

Harbaugh followed it up by pouring a bit of cold water in saying, "we have to improve in our kickoff return blocking before I would agree to have Alex Orji returning the kick", but certainly something to keep an eye on. 

What it means: McCarthy is The Guy and it's impossible to know how many strides he's made until we see him in regulation games, even if there was more buzz than there is. Tuttle and Warren are probably running close to even for QB2 but perhaps a tilt or lean towards Warren. Denegal praise is probably more obligatory than anything else, while the Orji kick returning chatter is 50% something that might actually work and 50% Something Crazy That Jim Wants To Try (remember when they lined up Dylan McCaffrey in the slot to catch a screen?). 

[AFTER THE JUMP: less glamorous positions]

 

Healthy!! [Bryan Fuller]

Running Back 

What we want to hear: Blake Corum is 100% healthy and hasn't missed a step from where he was in mid-November. Donovan Edwards has taken another step and is just as good. The RB3 spot is so talented that there are four different backs with a worthy claim for it, as depth is pouring out our ears. 

What we're hearing: Uhhhh, not a whole lot. Similar to QB, when you have two set and established starters, there isn't a lot of reason to have tons of buzz. What we have heard on Corum is positive, that he's playing without any limitations and feeling good. One insider said he was clearly better than Edwards in the scrimmage ($). On Edwards, Harbaugh noted that he's been working out with the punt return team, so that could be a possibility for him this season (Kalel Mullings was included in the category in players trying out that role too). Both Corum and Edwards have spoken to the media during camp but neither said much of anything interesting overall. 

Chatter about the reserve backs has been equally quiet to this point, with word that Kalel Mullings is practicing solely as an RB being the most interesting tidbit to this point. Clarity on the depth chart at RB is something I would definitely like to see discussed more moving forward, as I wish I had more to report here. Hopefully I will in the next update, but for now, I have to leave you in the dark (because I'm in the dark). 

What it means: Corum and Edwards are the top dogs, TBD until we hear more on the rest of the depth chart. 

 

[David Wilcomes]

Wide Receiver 

What we want to hear: Cornelius Johnson and Roman Wilson are making a jump to star caliber, while the young guns are ready to fill the shoes of Ronnie Bell. Tyler Morris and Darrius Clemons are pushing for legitimate playing time and even a few of the true freshman are poised to chip in. 

What we're hearing: The biggest piece of news has been an old classic, the emergence of "soft tissue ailments" (read: hamstring) in several of Michigan's receivers, which is rather typical as practices ramp up. Those issues kept a couple receivers out of the weekend scrimmage ($), and we also got news that Darrius Clemons is working through something, which Harbaugh confirmed publicly

Darrius Clemons, he's had a few nagging things but looking forward to—he was back at practice yesterday, working through something but hopefully this next two weeks leading up to game one and game two, he can get back in there and be really effective

The reports, be it from insiders or Harbaugh, have generally suggested that these injuries are not serious nor long-term, which is good news. With injury issues scattered across the depth chart, camp hype has fallen on two pass-catchers in particular, Roman Wilson and Tyler Morris. Chatter about Wilson was widespread after a strong scrimmage over the weekend ($), while Morris hype has been a theme throughout camp. As far back as only a couple days into camp we were hearing that Morris was asserting himself ($), something that picked up after JJ McCarthy met with the media and shouted out his ex-HS teammate:

"He’s gonna make a big name for himself this year. I have had that connection built since my sophomore year in high school. He's gonna do great things ... That’s a special connection to me, going back to like you said. Naz [Nazareth Academy], I used to call him Simba. I would be Mufasa. And stuff like that." 

Insiders responded to JJ's comments by doubling down on predictions of a breakout season for Morris ($) and he is clearly in line for a starting job. How do we know that? Harbaugh listed the depth chart going into camp at his presser this week: "Came into the camp with Roman, Cornelius Johnson and Tyler Morris being the top three". So far we haven't heard much from camp to change that. 

Lower on the depth chart, Harbaugh gave praise to the freshman receivers, Karmello English, Semaj Morgan, and Fred Moore, but given that they haven't shown up in any insider reporting, more than likely it's simply a customary nod from the coach to some players working hard in camp. Perhaps the most interesting line of Harbaugh's entire press conference was a mention of Cristian Dixon, a player we have seldom heard about since he arrived at Michigan two years ago. Harbaugh said that Dixon is "really asserting himself right now" and "he’s rising". Good to know that Dixon is alive, I suppose, but until he shows up in other reporting, I am inclined to chalk this one up as also a case of the coach acknowledging a player working hard, rather than a depth chart shakeup. 

What it means: Exactly what JH said, Roman Wilson, Cornelius Johnson, and Tyler Morris are your starters. More murky after that, some mix of Clemons, Peyton O'Leary (who we haven't heard much about after a loud spring), and the further-down-the-depth-chart receivers. 

 

[Bryan Fuller]

Tight End 

What we want to hear: Colston Loveland is on track to be the best Michigan TE of the Harbaugh era, AJ Barner is proving he was underrated at Indiana, Matthew Hibner is demonstrating that he could easily have been TE2 if Barner didn't transfer in, and one of Deakon Tonielli and Zack Marshall is already on the Loveland 2022 track. 

What we're hearing: Few positions on the entire team have been as quiet as tight end this training camp. I paged through dozens of articles from the various sites, writing down all the notes that I could find, and I got almost nothing on the reserve TEs and only milquetoast praise in public press conferences on the two starters. So, please enjoy these two sets of quotes from Sherrone Moore, on one Loveland and one on Barner. Here's Loveland: 

He could be the best one in the country. And I know there’s one down there down in Georgia who’s been extremely good. And he’s a phenomenal player. But just very excited to see where Colston is and his progress. What he’s done already in training camp, he’s already gotten bigger, he’s already gotten stronger. He’s already gotten faster. He understands where everything is in the offense now so you’re not spoon-feeding him everything. You’re throwing it all out to him and he gets it and just very excited to see him and where he goes

And Barner: 

Yeah, he’s been outstanding. First of all, he’s huge. He’s a giant human being. Phenomenal kid, phenomenal person, does everything right. But he’s been outstanding. Because when you’re on the edge and you’re blocking, Jaylen Harrell and Kris Jenkins and all those other guys, whoever’s out there, it’s like, you can hold up, it’s pretty impressive

The one piece of information I was able to find on the backup TEs was this line from a piece over at On3, using PHOTOGRAPHS as its main source ($): "(Marlin) Klein may be the biggest riser here, having been spotted running with the 1s in both photos and video of practice". I am unwilling to put any real stock in a report like that, but it's all I have to share with you. Come back next time for more information (hopefully)! 

What it means: The dearth of chatter is likely because there is nothing new to report on the depth chart from what was assumed previously. Loveland and Barner are the two starters, Max Bredeson factors in as a blocking TE, Matthew Hibner or Marlin Klein likely TE3, and then all the young guys after that. 

 

[Paul Sherman]

Offensive Line 

What we want to hear: JOEEEEEEE MOOOOOOOREEEEE THREE PEAT!!! Michigan has two elite offensive lines and is deeper than the Mariana's Trench at this position. Zak Zinter is conjuring memories of Quentin Nelson, the new tackles are seamlessly replacing Ryan Hayes, and the center battle is between two studs who should provide little drop-off from Olu Oluwatimi. 

What we're hearing: This will factor prominently in the defensive fall football bits (coming later today), but the biggest chatter recently with the OL is that they're getting beaten... by the defensive line. That was the biggest narrative coming out of the weekend scrimmage and reports following it were phrased in a manner of confirmation, that the DL besting the OL has been a theme of camp ($). Most reports included the caveat that the OL has been rotating heavily at tackle, so there hasn't been an opportunity to build chemistry with the 1's yet, which is important to point out. Still, this could be interpreted either as a triumphant achievement for the DL or a bad sign for the OL. I lean more towards the former. 

Among the 1's, guards are set (no shock) and the direction of the blowing winds at center seem to suggest that Drake Nugent is the favorite there ($). JJ McCarthy said publicly at his media availability that both Nugent and Greg Crippen are going to play regulation snaps, so that battle may not be settled in fall camp. Interestingly, despite the strong spring and a stellar spring game effort, Raheem Anderson has disappeared from discussion about the centers. Harbaugh stated that Nugent and Crippen were co-starters at center at B1G Media Day back in late July and since that point, the center battle has been exclusively between those two in all the insider reporting. 

Tackle is the focus of most insider chatter about fall camp at this point, a war between the two co-RTs from last season, Trente Jones and Karsen Barnhart, and the two transfers, LaDarius Henderson and Myles Hinton. The battles have been separate in camp, Henderson vs. Barnhart at LT and Hinton vs. Jones at RT. One report recently suggested that it's the transfers who are winning both battles ($), but that is far from set in stone. Harbaugh himself would be the first to refute that, with his effusive praise for Barnhart standing out at his press conference, where he called Barnhart the player having the best camp. Though Barnhart is working out at LT currently, Harbaugh noted that he could very easily move to RT, because his versatility is his feature: "Karsen's ability, his versatilty, he could play any position. He could play left, he could play right, he could play guard. Developing that same versatility with the other guys as well is a priority."

[Bryan Fuller]

Barnhart's rival at LT, LeDarius Henderson, has been the subject of some chatter recently, particularly as to why he has not taken firm command of the LT job when that's what he was recruited to Michigan to do ($). Some insiders have cited rust, since Henderson missed the spring and is moving back to tackle after having played G in his last season at ASU. Others have argued that he's still assimilating to his new team, and of course the opposite takes at the two poles circulate around: he's not that good or Barnhart is just that good. No clear explanation at this time, but Sherrone Moore did comment on Henderson at his media availability

Yeah, I think it is a process that (Henderson's) working through... It’s something that you’re gonna have your ups and downs and it’s gonna be something that you’re gonna have to just keep working out. But he’s definitely made a great transition to us, just being here in the summer and now I’m just excited to have him and excited where he’s at right now.

As for the other side of the line, there hasn't been much talk about Trente Jones, while Hinton has been the object of some buzz. I noted one prognostication that projects him to win the RT job, but chatter about him has circulated around. Regardless of who exits camp as the "starter" at either tackle spot, Harbaugh was very clear that the battle will extend into the season

I definitely think you're going to see the Michigan method in play at offensive tackle. There's two starters on the left, two starters on the right. Four starting tackles that we have. It'll go through camp, I envision starting two tackles the first game, two tackles the second game

Harbaugh evoked last year's QB battle as a template for the "Michigan method" he's describing in this quote. 

What it means: Zinter and Keegan are locked in ink as the starting guards. While they will give Crippen "a shot" to win the job at C, it seems pretty likely that Nugent is going to end up being the guy in the middle, even if it bleeds into the first few weeks of the season. Tackle, though, no idea. I think smart money still has Henderson winning the LT job, since that's what the program clearly had in mind, but that is much more murky than you'd have guessed before camp. And then what happens at RT? I think Hinton or Jones winning it, or Barnhart moving over to start at RT, are all roughly equally likely outcomes at this point in time. We shall see what the rest of fall camp has in store. 

Comments

FatGuyTouchdown

August 18th, 2023 at 10:07 AM ^

I think this is just how Jim Harbaugh prefers to operate. He had to make some concessions when they were underperforming relative to expectations, and then last year they were replacing a ton and there was some reading between the lines to be had.

 

They're returning a lot of talent and he's got the cache and the desire to keep things bottled up a ton. 

The Homie J

August 18th, 2023 at 11:16 AM ^

Based on the rankings of OL/DL Alex has been putting together, I would guess you're going to be correct.

We have an elite OL and DL, which are sharpening each other each day.  Meanwhile, Ohio State has tackles problems apparently, Penn State is the most "solid" OL but their track record under Franklin is not great, Michigan State's OL is "good for recent standards" which we know means little, and only Minnesota gets the benefit of the doubt when it comes to replacing multiple OL starters, which is what they have to do this season.

As far as solid DL's, you have Michigan State, Penn State, and Ohio State.  And Alex thinks so highly of the DL's this year that Rutgers!? somehow ranked 3rd.  PSU/OSU have defensive tackle battles, and Ohio State is depending on several players having to breakout at the same time.  Michigan State is solid but their DL likely won't matter if they still can't defend a pass to save their asses

Koop

August 18th, 2023 at 11:25 AM ^

I take great comfort from the idea that the starting DL is beating the starting OL in practice. Pretty certain that wasn't the case at this point last season (although Alex or someone could probably prove me wrong). That bodes really, really well for the heightened aspirations for this team.

The Homie J

August 18th, 2023 at 4:41 PM ^

The 3-3-5 D only worked on us because we refused to use JJ's legs as a cheat code when their defense was blatantly over commiting to blitzing everybody and their mother at the LOS every snap.

We finally started punishing their kamikaze blitz with some QB reads and lo and behold, we torched their defense the 2nd half, but sadly it was too little too late

VamosAzul

August 18th, 2023 at 9:45 AM ^

You forgot the insider buzz about Donovan Edwards from…*checks notes*… Donovan Edwards that he’s going to be one of the greatest running backs of all time next to Barry Sanders and Walter Payton!

BTB grad

August 18th, 2023 at 12:42 PM ^

It was the coaching staff’s fault for slotting a guy they converted from LB to RB only 2 games earlier into the FB position and expecting him to easily execute a much harder FB handoff. Harbaugh should’ve learned his lesson when he tried this with TE McKeon in the 2018 outback bowl against SCar when he fumbled and then admitted McKeon had never repped that before in practice or game. 

EGD

August 18th, 2023 at 9:53 AM ^

the biggest chatter recently with the OL is that they're getting beaten... by the defensive line. That was the biggest narrative coming out of the weekend scrimmage and reports following it were phrased in a manner of confirmation, that the DL besting the OL has been a theme of camp

Might also be a bit of a Joe Bolden effect going on with this.

(For those who may not recall, Bolden was a pretty good LB in games but was widely reported to be a transformatively dominant LB in practice. This was believed due to his familiarity with Michigan's offense.)

dragonchild

August 18th, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^

I doubt that for two reasons.

First, the OL has reached a point where they're basically playing at an NFL level.  Most have played live-fire snaps, there's no trick they're not ready for, so what's the defense gonna do even if they know what's coming?  Blitz?

Second, we had a very good DL last season that was nonetheless nowhere near its ceiling.  Graham was a quality player as a true freshman, Jenkins is a mutant and now up over 300, among other developments.  That the DL is beating the OL is probably overblown as preseason hype, but I take it to mean they're winning some reps, which shouldn't be a shocker.

If there's anything to it, my wild guess is the transfers are still picking up communication.  The way Olu mind-melded with the team last season was uncanny, probably not the norm.  I expect an O-line with some new faces to occasionally go into scramble mode in fall camp.  As long as they clean things up before the season -- and we have Moore around for that -- it's a big whatever.

EGD

August 18th, 2023 at 11:26 AM ^

First, the OL has reached a point where they're basically playing at an NFL level.  Most have played live-fire snaps, there's no trick they're not ready for, so what's the defense gonna do even if they know what's coming?  Blitz?

Defensive linemen are typically much faster and more athletic than offensive linemen. But as an OL you have the advantage of knowing exactly what you need to do before the play, knowing the snap count, etc.

Defensive linemen, by contrast, typically need to be ready for a host of contingencies. It could be a running play, in which case I need to fill my gap or set the edge--or it could be a passing play, in which case I need to get to the QB. Or it could be a draw play, so if I go hell-bent after the QB then the RB will go right by me. Or it could be a play-action pass, meaning if I back off my pass rush when I see the run-fake then the QB will have all day to throw. Even within the context of knowing a play is a run or pass, there are deeper nuances. If I'm a DT and the center needs to execute a reach block on me, for example, that's already difficult if I don't know it's coming. If I do know that's coming, that's kyrptonite: I might be a second-year walk-on but there is no way in hell that center is crossing my face.

That's just one example but the basic idea is that if a group of defensive players go up against the same offense enough times, they may spot tells or just develop certain instincts about what they are facing that can negate some of the natural advantages that successful OL play depends upon.

But I am totally speculating here so who knows, maybe this has nothing to do with it.

As for Bolden, I agree he was below-average by post-RR Michigan defensive standards. How good he was compared to, say, an average Big Ten LB is maybe a different question. Either way I really just wanted to highlight the notion of a defense potentially performing better against familiar opponents as a possible explanation for the camp reports, and hoped to avoid bashing Bolden in the process.

Double-D

August 18th, 2023 at 10:38 AM ^

I would be surprised if Barnhart is not starting at one of the tackle spots.

He is too consistent and Harbaugh loves his mistake free football.

Harbaugh noting Barnhart as having the best camp amongst all that talent was purposely setting that tone.

They are looking for best five and Barnhart has the flexibility to push Henderson on the left side. 

The Homie J

August 18th, 2023 at 11:20 AM ^

Agreed, Barnhart may or may not win the LT spot, but I'll be greatly surprised if he's not holding down one of the 2 tackle spots this season based on chatter.  Plus, he's easily the "insert this guy if someone's injured" player, so if anything happens in camp, his starter status is even more likely (knock on wood)

Koop

August 18th, 2023 at 11:33 AM ^

Maybe true--and, because this season has an extended "preseason," maybe the starters for Game One won't be the starters for Games 9, 10, 11, and 12.

And maybe that's another reason why there's less chatter for Alex to parse--the camp battles don't have the same urgency because the schedule isn't exactly a Murderer's Row.

Jonesy

August 18th, 2023 at 2:30 PM ^

All the talk before this was that Hinton came here to reboot, that he needed to heal and restart from scratch so I'd be pretty surprised if he was a starter. But if he's giving Jones a run for his money that would mean to me that Jones isn't doing that great and that the two guys battling it out for LT will be occupying both Ts.

M_Born M_Believer

August 18th, 2023 at 10:19 AM ^

Regarding the DL v OL battles.  On the BTN tour through Michigan ( I know, a bunch of Captain Obvious particularly Jerry), but Howard pointed out that during the Goal Line drills, the DL was winning several snaps from the OL.  And given the OL's pedigree, this bolded well for the DL.

At least that's the take I am going with.  They made a point of stating how good BOTH the OL and DL are in camp.  Most impressed with them.

Its going to be a great year.  On the national level, they are about to be introduced to a deep and talented DL, that sets up the rest of the defense.  I have high hopes for this defense can become one of the elites that we have seen led by Jenkins, Coulson, Johnson, Graham, Moore...

The fact that I listed 5 of the starters should say plenty, I expected all 5 (plus 3-4 more) to get All Big Ten honors by the end of the season...