Another year on the bubble
This is getting exhausting. You'd think for $3.37 million a year Michigan would get more of a return on its investment. What's the point of all this? Yes the refs screwed us tonight, but where is the rebounding, the boxing out, the defense, the toughness? It's the same problems over and over every single year under Beilein. There's no 1st round NBA talent on this team so I kind of expected this, but that's the problem. The B1G being terrible this year makes this season all the more frustrating.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:56 AM ^
February 20th, 2017 at 5:42 PM ^
February 20th, 2017 at 5:42 PM ^
February 19th, 2017 at 10:11 PM ^
February 19th, 2017 at 10:11 PM ^
February 19th, 2017 at 10:22 PM ^
OP had this one saved in his drafts since last year, probably.
I was pissed at Beilein and staff and on the "move in a different direction side" when the season looked dead in the water after OSU, but then we did two things in back to back games that we hadn't done since I was pooping my diapers.
Back away and wait and see. Now is not the time for a yellin' thread unless it's about the shit-fer-brains refs.
Should we be okay with *just* being a 6 to 10 seed? No. But we're not getting rid of the guy if we make the tournament, so this discussion is moot.
We would get laughed out the door with any candidate if we fired Beilein after making the tournament.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:38 PM ^
February 19th, 2017 at 10:53 PM ^
I guess I've yet to hear anyone put forth a reasonable replacement for Beilein that would be demonstrably better right now. I'm all for him moving on at some point, but for the program's health and everyone's sanity it's WAY better to have a peaceful transition to a new coach instead of booting a guy (in this case after either making the tourney or barely missing it) and then scrambling to find a replacement.
Michigan isn't a blue-blood basketball program that can demand the best candidates line up with their resumes in hand. Beilein is a fine coach and, frankly, he's probably not long for the job anyway due to his age. There is some young talent here, and finding the next coach should be a process he's involved in if possible, not thrown out the door because people now expect Michigan basketball to be like Duke.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:39 AM ^
The worst argument of the entire thread.
There are literally a dozen or more coaches better than JB that Michigan could land the day after the season ends.
Start with Bennett and work your way down through Mack, Miller, McDermott, Marshall in your tier A Group. Michigan should have no problem landing any one of these coaches save Bennett, but even he probably leaves for a 1.5 million dollar raise.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:14 PM ^
It does seem to come down to being within sight of the bubble this year, but that being said, I think that if you win at least two - say, Nebraska and Rutgers - then we're possibly on the inside looking out at minimum. We probably need to find a third win in the next stretch to be totally safe, but we also need to do reasonably well in the Big Ten Tournament to round out what there is of a resume. Do all that, and we're most likely in.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:18 PM ^
Totally agree LSA, I guess my point was that it's exhausting having to sweat out being on the bubble with this program every year. It's year 10, we should be well past that but it has happened most years with JB that 3 year run. Just frustrating seeing the same mistakes and weaknesses never be addressed.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:23 PM ^
February 19th, 2017 at 10:19 PM ^
We can beat Northwestern. They are overrated IMO.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:25 PM ^
After the way their coach slit his wrists in the postgame presser last year, I'm guessing they've had that game circled since the schedule came out.
I don't have good vibes about that game.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:55 PM ^
That's true, but I also watched them barely escape Rutgers at home at what is basically full strength. They are...fine, but it's not like Evanston is a house of horrors for Michgian. And even with renewed excitement, my guess is the crowd is close to 40-50% Michigan fans.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:59 PM ^
February 19th, 2017 at 11:12 PM ^
Can you remind me what happened last year with them?
February 20th, 2017 at 2:21 PM ^
the trip to indiana. wisconsin, coming in off a loss. at minnesota. we were this close to going 3-0 on those three. we should have been 3-0.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:27 PM ^
February 19th, 2017 at 10:39 PM ^
Maizen/MaizeHaze cranks his Beilein hate up to another level. As in years past, he'll go overboard and get sent to Bolivia for a few months. Then we'll do it all again next year.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:41 PM ^
Look what I spied with my little eye in the voting details on this thread.
| Maizen | 1 | 02/19/2017 - 9:58pm |
| Killer Khakis | -1 | 02/19/2017 - 10:01pm |
| BursleyBaitsBus | 1 | 02/19/2017 - 10:22pm |
| username03 | 1 | 02/19/2017 - 9:58pm |
| badandboujee | -1 | 02/19/2017 - 10:30pm |
February 19th, 2017 at 11:04 PM ^
Anytime I see that you downvote my posts (which you do every single time for some weird ass reason), I upvote myself because I know it pisses you off. Have a nice day.
February 20th, 2017 at 12:23 AM ^
Now I will wait for you to bring up the usual msu-favorite of letting me know I don't go to U-M as if that has any relevance whatsoever to anything being discussed.
February 20th, 2017 at 1:20 AM ^
February 19th, 2017 at 10:41 PM ^
yep. pretty much his shtick at this point.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:43 PM ^
These thread topics are even more exhausting.
February 19th, 2017 at 10:58 PM ^
February 20th, 2017 at 8:23 AM ^
Walton and MAAR both 1/4 and Irvin 1/2. A lot of those misses coming when they really needed them.
February 20th, 2017 at 1:05 AM ^
But I'm more optimistic that this team can beat NE and Rutgers and possibly upset NU on the road. That should get them in. If not, then we can root for them in the NIT.
February 20th, 2017 at 1:18 AM ^
It's like you wait in the weeds for this team to lose so you can make a other one of these posts.
February 20th, 2017 at 3:40 AM ^
February 20th, 2017 at 4:52 AM ^
I gotta hand it to the OP he actually responded to many posts. Most people do drive-by posts and never respond.
February 20th, 2017 at 7:04 AM ^
February 20th, 2017 at 8:44 AM ^
It was a combination of horrible referreeing and the inability to hit free throws down the stretch. Aside from this one game though, I'd agree that being on the bubble two consecutive years is not where Michigan basketball wants to be or needs to be. Competing for the Big Ten title and getting at least a 4 or 5 seed in the tournament should be the goals every year. Beilein's chair will be getting warmer the longer this goes on.
February 20th, 2017 at 9:08 AM ^
It is the big ten. Home teams always get calls. At least it is consistently inconsistent in that regard.
February 20th, 2017 at 8:52 AM ^
Wisconsin, sadly looks like a mirage. He's just still broken. That shot won't be fixed and he looks SO uneasy when he has the ball. I've never seen someone dribble so high up to his body and have his arm completely straight. There is no flex in his elbows.
February 20th, 2017 at 10:01 AM ^
Someone who has more experinece tell me - is Irvin's lack of development normal, common, or even heard of? Does this happen - that a senior has such a weird shot and questionable ball handling skills? Those are mechanics that can be taught. I just dont get it.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:02 AM ^
No, that's not something rare. Plenty of players come in with talent and basically level off early on. I could name multiple Michigan players throughout the years that had a very similar trajectory. Started out pretty well and never got any better.
Now, his mechanics? I don't see that often.
February 20th, 2017 at 10:11 AM ^
i get that this is a big overraction to one game, one we played well enough to win
i frankly have been apathetic since early february. beating a flailing indiana team, an msu team that has no bigs and no heart and wisconsin without one of its best players in a must win still doesn't move the needle for me. not sure how it moved it for y'all. 15 games in you wanna fire him, 3 games later people want to keep him?
as the poster said we have one road win in a year. and we played 15-20 road games over that time. i also just don't see where we are getting studs to make this situation better in the next two classes. I know it's early, but looking back over the last two years (post final four momentum) and looking at this year and how it projects over the next few. I see a team that has 6 seed ceiling with an NIT floor and an average of 9-12 seed outcome, sweating out the bubble.
while we are a solid team, it would be nice to not have drama starting in early february and ending in early to mid march. our march madness basically is february madness because we aren't a real threat to do anything.
i get the OP's anger, for others of us it's apathy or despair of whether we will ever be better than the scenario i described above. i wish JB the best and will cheer him on as long as he is here. but our program can be better than this
February 20th, 2017 at 10:16 AM ^
Where is the overreaction? Where are the people who want to keep Beilein? I am guessing you are not so unique. I think most of us feel hopefully apathetic about this year, and think the program needs to move on afterward.
February 20th, 2017 at 10:52 AM ^
I guess my question for you is the question for all of these kinds of posts: What is our realistic ceiling and how do we get there? John Beilein has flaws, especially when it comes to the types of players he values in recruiting. He's also missed the tournament only 3 times since he was hired and made 5 of the last 6. How much is realistically improved by firing him?
February 20th, 2017 at 11:11 AM ^
1st Round: 3
2nd Round: 5
Sweet 16: 5
Elite Eight: 1
Final Four: 2
And finished outside the top 4 in the conference twice in 16 years (one of which lead to the final four) and never missed the tournament
And yes I hate when people selectively focus on decades/years that don't include the downs with the ups. However I think Wisconsin level success should be achievable at Michigan when considering the whole program, recruiting, brand, ect.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:01 PM ^
Wisconsin is a good model to shoot for, but I don't think we're in need of blowing up the program to get there, especially when they are doing exactly what Michigan is trying to do now: develop talent that turns generic 3 star recruits into awesome Jrs and Srs.
We're 11th in AdjO in Kenpom and the defense has improved throughout the year (still a long way to go at 105th in AdjD), but at least Beilein has at least some recognition that it needs to improve by hiring Donlon. With another few years to go on Beilein's contract (there's no way he gets fired as long as he keeps making the tournament), my view is that it's just best to enjoy the ride and see what happens
February 20th, 2017 at 3:01 PM ^
Why is Wisconsin a good model when that entire school is just a lesser version of Michigan? Their university wished their academics were as good as UM's, they wish Madison was as cool as Ann Arbor, they wish their football team could be as good as Michigan's, they wish they had a national brand and fanbase like UM.
This is the problem with our program, people don't remember how fucking awesome we used to be and think we have to settle for something less than we once were. Frieder and Fisher recruited McDonalds All Americans every god damn year. I'm so sick of havng this discussion people need to start do their effing homework.
It's Year 10, beilein ain't chaging. His defense is atrocious for the the 4th straight year. His recruiting has been complete ass. I don't want to hear people say recruiting rankings don't matter while they brag about how well harbaugh is doing. We're stuck with this guy until he retires or Warde fires the guy.
February 20th, 2017 at 3:15 PM ^
madison is pretty sweet tho
fish and company paid players. so i chose wisconsin as it seems to be an average between where we are and kentucky.
i do hate that we don't play defense (i.e. can never win with a defensive effort). people need to spare me the "we're top 100 in D"
If michigan football defense we're in the 50-60 range (~ roughly where our bball D is relative to D 1 Teams) we'd be running around with our hair on fire
February 20th, 2017 at 3:26 PM ^
This misconception that Fisher paid players is a funny one to me. Ed Martin gave money to tons of kids who went to schools besides Michigan. He wasn't directing anyone to Michigan. Why this is never brought up I don't know. But it's getting old having to correct the record on it to the people who haven't taken the time to know the facts about the NCAA scandal. Michigan got dinged because Martin lived in Detroit and Fisher gave him tickets to Michigan games. It's sad considering two dozen other schools had players that were paid by Martin.
I do agree with you on your other points though.
February 20th, 2017 at 3:14 PM ^
Any program not named UCLA, Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina, or Kansas would love to be Wisconsin. You seem to be mad that Michigan is not consistently a top 10 team, but I dont know what solution you have for this. There's no clear go-to candidate waiting in the wings (e.g. NC State praying to get alum Archie Miller). Basketball Jim Harbaugh is not coming here because we had some good seasons in the 90s.
February 20th, 2017 at 11:42 AM ^
You continue to strive to be better. That's it. I dont care if you have Alabama or Kentucky-level success. The one characteristic of top-level championship programs is you are never satisfied, and you certainly dont see some "realistic ceiling." That's a loser's mentality.
February 20th, 2017 at 2:04 PM ^
This is just cliche sports talk that doesn't actually mean anything. Will you know Michigan has heart and determination when more balls go through the hoop? How is Michigan not "striving to be better"?
February 20th, 2017 at 2:36 PM ^
"This is just cliche sports talk that doesn't actually mean anything."
And we all appreciate the grounded, quantitative, concrete analyses that you have brought to the discussion. Pot, meet kettle.