OT- Pete Rose lies again
It looks like yet again Pete Rose has been caught in another lie, and this time it might be the last straw.
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13114874/notebook-obtained-lines-shows-pete-rose-bet-baseball-player-1986
His accomplishments as a player are truly significant and worthy of being an inductee into the HOF, but when these things keep coming up it's hard to find any way for him to get in under any circumstances.
The spectacle of sports journalists sneering at the lowly people who *gasp* actually play the sports they cover and *shock* may not be as pure as the driven snow, which the journalists themselves assuredly are.
Who gives a crap about the HOF.
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Shoeless Joe should get in before any of the questionable choices (Rose, Bonds, A-Rod, etc.)
Huh?
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It's funny to think that Jackson took money from the gamblers and then double-crossed them by playing well.
Like I said, he belongs in the hall, and no, he didn't throw the world series.
http://www.history.com/news/ask-history/did-shoeless-joe-jackson-conspi…
The truth shall set you free!!!
The Dowd report suggest that at least at some point Rose likely bet against the Reds.
The Wells report suggests that Tom Brady...well you know. I don't disagree necessarily but there isn't any proof. Suggestions and hypothesis aren't proof.
I think my biggest issue with his banishment from the HOF is that he clearly has a gambling addiction. It's an addiction just like drugs or alcohol etc and there are plenty of people in the HOF that were alcoholics or drug addicts. Unless they can prove that he intentionally threw games that he was betting on I think that Pete Rose deserves to be in the hall of fame.
Baseballs HOF seems so stuffy and controversial to me. I get that its the national past time and its an old game and all that but the way they vote people in and the vitriol that some voters have for candidates makes it unlike any other sport IMO and its kind of annoying.
Baseball and its writers act like its so pure, but there are a number of liars, cheaters, thieves, or worse in the hall of fame. Cobb was throwing games, and he was the first guy in.
Wasn't half of MLB on amphetamines in the 70s?
Great set of strawman arguments there, boys. The only thing that makes it horseshit is that no one is arguing that the HOF is a magical place of pristine morality. If anyone does argue that, you'll be ready. In the meantime, its probably best to avoid making shit up.
As long has he wasn't betting on his own team to lose (or shaving points, etc) I don't care if he bet on baseball, or lied about it.
He is one of, if not the greatest, baseball players of all time. He deserves to be in the HoF.
Then again, I'm not a fan of vacating wins or other such punishments for off the field infractions.
He agreed to the lifetime ban. It really doesn't matter what any of us think.
why he agreed to it? The only thing I can think of is that he's hiding something much worse than some gambling.
As I'm not much of a baseball fan, but the next time you're in Royal Oak, I'll buy you a beer.
Your points in this thread are well taken.
Yep. He was owned by the mob. What are the odds that the mob just decided to be nice guys and not make any money off the baseball manager they owned?
That's all
Put him in.
4256 hits by betting against yourself and your team.
I hope one day he stops getting portrayed as a villian but sadly I don't think that day will ever come.
as long as you aren't betting against yourself every game. There's no reason why you couldn't be an elite player and still bet against your team a few times a season without anyone raisingan eyebrow at you
Betting on his own team to win as a player = Okay in my book for induction into HOF.
Betting on his team to lose as a player = Not okay, of course.
Betting on his team to to win or lose as a MANAGER = Not okay for HOF.
Good point. Thank you.
That's fine if you could argue Rose is legit. There is nothing about him that's legit.
If Rose had not been player/manager of the Reds at the end he probably would not have broken the record. He put himself in the lineup while better players sat on the bench. He misused his pitching staff while he bet on "his" team. His gambling altered his managing.
His gambling had him in severe debt, most likely to the wrong people. Everyone who says he didn't bet against his team what about the days he didn't bet? What's that telling a bookie? What edge do they get knowing this? Maybe he didn't care if they won those games.
You can't assume his intentions were good anymore than I can assume they were bad. I do believe that betting the kind of money Rose was betting leads me to believe that his intenions were only what was best for Rose and not for the game.
In the end once you get on a game you can influence then that game falls under doubt. If people can't understand that then we might as well get Vince for the commisioner.
The only group of people MORE delusional about the character of their cherished local hero than Cincinnati denizens and Petey are the PSU slappies and St. Joe. I can tell you that as crazy in denial as the Penn State apolgists are the people from Cinci. To them, Pete did absolutely nothing wrong and is just being railroaded by a vindictive, spiteful MLB who are just jealous of his success.
They are absolutely insane. Trust me.
I moved here in 2007, so I didn't experience things prior to then. But from my experience most Cinci residents accept that the home-town hero is a liar and deserving off his banishment from Cooperstown.
stupid. Instead of acting like the keeping him out of the hall of fame will keep people from remembering him, put him in and talk about how big of an asshole he is.
I understand he agreed with it. I am just saying that it should never have been offered in the first place. Of course, I couldn't care less about the baseball hall of fame (despite being a huge baseball fan) because something called a "Hall of fame" is just a terrible idea. If this were a "Museum of Baseball history", of course he'd be in it, and they would be able to talk about what a jackass he was for betting on baseball.
Bud reinstated him in one of his first years as commissioner.
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Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.
Pete Rose fails on integrity and character at least. He lied over and over and over again about the sports gambling, agreed to a lifetime ban, and whined when MLB would not ignore his own ban.
Did he have great playing ability and contribute (as a player) to his team? Sure. That's what makes his case so tragic. (It feels less tragic because Pete Rose strikes many of us like a dick, and a dick who likes to play the victim when he's in fact wrong. And he was pretty vicious towards his detractors. I throw him in the same bin as Lance Armstrong.)
Rose bet heavily on college and professional basketball, losing $15,400 on one day in March. That came during his worst week of the four-month span, when he lost $25,500.
As a minor note, $25,500 in 1986 is about $55,400 now (rough calculation), so that's a rather significant amount of money to lose in four weeks. Well, perhaps less significant if you're making high-end baseball money even in the 1980s than to, say, you or me, but that still noteworthy in my opinion.
I guess that for me it comes down to not only did he knowingly break a rule that he would have had to acknowledge and undersign (not betting on games), he was doing so persistently. It doesn't make him any less Charlie Hustle nor does it diminish the numerous honors and records, but for HOF purposes, I don't see how you can ignore the integrity issue.