Mailbag: Nepotism Chances, Beilein Paranoia, Harbaugh Timing, RR Counterfactual Comment Count

Brian

Illu]\/[inati

1976 Michigan Football Team

It's happening...

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Circled are Jim Hackett, 53, and Jack Harbaugh, Bo assistant

I am not putting all the eggs in the ol' basket based on this. Maybe a few.

Chances of similar nepotism catastrophe?

Well, we've just witnessed the final episode of Brady Hoke in Michigan Stadium.  It's very easy for some to feel anger at the head coach, but the more appropriate target(s?) are those responsible for elevating Hoke to a position he was incapable of executing.  Beyond the anger, are the responsible parties still in a position of influence?  Not Brandon, of course, my concern is more directed toward Schembechler Hall.  Is there a risk of essentially repeating the same mistake of another Michigan Man, albeit a more competent version?

Mark

Uh… no? We have already plucked the last fruit off the Lloyd Carr tree, such as it is, and Michigan men available are:

  • JIM HARBAUGH. Probably not a mistake.
  • LES MILES. Questionable due to age and sketch, but even so not in Hoke's galaxy as in terms of qualifications, or lack thereof.
  • NOBODY. There are no other Michigan-affiliated head coaches.

I guess Michigan could go way off the board and hire one of the near-rookie NFL coordinators who have ties, but you have to think that after the last search they would try to avoid the appearance of nepotism. I cannot say for sure, of course. Michigan could go with Harold Goodwin or Teryl Austin, because nobody knows anything about Jim Hackett.

I kind of doubt it, though. After the two obvious guys there isn't a midlevel head coach with an uninspiring record who you can just barely see as conceivable if you squint particularly hard.

Meanwhile the new president isn't a Michigan guy and seems kind of appalled by the current culture of the department; most of said department consists of Brandon-hired short-timers with no connection to Michigan. The guy dead-set on the nepotism hire has been flushed, and what are the chances Michigan hires two CEOs like… that… back to back?

Okay, okay: nonzero. But not high. If Hackett's anywhere near the meat of the bell curve the backup plan won't be hired because he knows six different places Encore Records has been.

[After THE JUMP: or where Le Dog went to]

091113-KapCoach-Header[1]

Harbaugh timing

Hi Brian,

So I've been wondering about the pros/cons of hiring a coach early vs. waiting - wouldn't it be better to sacrifice this year's recruiting class in the event that getting Harbaugh after the NFL playoffs are over is a possibility (assuming SF makes it to the postseason)? I.e. how okay would you be with a late January hire in this scenario? Obviously if you can't get Harbaugh, you're going to want to make the hire asap, but if you're Hackett and Harbaugh won't give you a straight yes/no answer until he's done at SF, what do you do?

--Alex

The best scenario is probably for San Francisco to go 10-6 and miss the playoffs in a very competitive NFC. Harbaugh is available as soon as he can be, San Francisco is unlikely to change their mind about his departure, and there's no awkward waiting.

Even if that doesn't happen, I think you have to get a firm yes or no by the beginning of January. If SF is fine with him moving on hopefully they will be fine with announcing that before the season's over. They may well be, as if reports about how the locker room hates him are true that would be a relief. "Let's all get together for the next two months and win some stuff and then we never have to see each other again," that sort of thing.

In that scenario Harbaugh's ability to recruit is going to be highly limited or even nonexistent, which is fine by me since a few phone calls probably gets Michigan back up to 8-10 kids and then whoever's left over from the Hoke staff will be able to fill in the blanks reasonably well. That would virtually guarantee Roy Manning and maybe one other position coach is on the new staff; recruiting coordinator Chris Singletary would also be a lock. (Not that I think there's much threat he gets replaced—recruiting has been the one thing the Hoke regime has done undeniably well.)

Beilein paranoia

Brian,

As we go through names and debate whether Michigan would be able to poach someone like Dan Mullen from Mississippi State or Mike Gundy from Oklahoma State, I keep coming to the conclusion that, even during their down years, there are a handful of premiere jobs like Michigan, Texas, Notre Dame, Ohio State, USC, etc. that are a notch above the rest, and that given the opportunity to go from a mid-level Big XII or SEC program to one of these, many coaches would take it.

This has gotten me freaked out because it seems that there's an equivalent of a Mississippi State or Oklahoma State to Michigan move in basketball, and it's Michigan to UNC, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky or UCLA.  Indiana may be looking for a new coach soon, and maybe UNC too if the NCAA violations continue to linger.

So my drawn out question is, do we need to be at all worried about Beilein?  Would his age rule him out for making another jump?  Is my analogy misguided?  Am I just being super paranoid?  Please tell me I'm being super paranoid.

Scott

You're being super paranoid. The bad news is that Beilein is planning on retiring in the relatively near future. He's got four or five or six years left before he calls it a day. The good news is that this means he's not going anywhere. He doesn't have any interest in spending a couple of those years doing one of his slow burn builds, and a big-time program is going to be looking for a longer-term solution than Beilein offers.

Meanwhile I question whether Michigan can poach some of those mid-level football coaches. Mullen, probably. Mississippi State is still dead last in its division when it comes to resources and always will be; Mullen has to know that he should strike while the iron is hot, because you can be a really good coach and still stumble to a handful of 7-6 seasons at MSU.

Gundy and Patterson already know they can build national contenders where they are; their situations in or next to the Texas talent mine are far less unbalanced than that faced by Mullen. They also are likely to have job security far beyond that Michigan would offer, and these days the money differences aren't particularly large. Both would have to think long and hard about whether they were going to give up a good thing for an unknown.

Beilein is not in a spot like Dan Mullen. He's in a spot like Gary Patterson, and I think it would take several pounds of C4 to dislodge him from TCU.

Walk-ons still extant?

Brian,

I read the Daily piece on Alex Mitropolous-Rundus and it reminded me of a question that has gone in and out of my head the last four (largely grueling) seasons: Did Hoke abandon RichRod's student body walk-on tryouts? I haven't read or heard a word about a tryout of that sort since Hoke arrived.

I hope that's only a product of nobody having made any significant impact on the field since Jordan Kovacs. But the fact that a Kovacs or someone even vaguely like him may possibly exist in our enormous student body every few years is more than reason enough that Hoke should be forcing a few assistants to spend a couple hours to run a tryout one Saturday a year if he's too lazy to do it himself.

There is literally no downside. If he and the coaches around him can't see that, well... I suppose it would be just one more thing to add to their List O' Buffoonery. I'm reasonably certain Carr held no such tryouts, and I'm guessing Hoke immediately abandoned them per his and Brandon's "Purge All Remnants of the Rodriguez Era" edict. 

Thanks.
-Rob, NJ

There are always student-body walkons, and since the walk-on program under Hoke has produced two solid starters in the Glasgow brothers that doesn't seem like a valid criticism. Yeah, they were preferred walk-ons. I don't think that's a distinction worth making. They are still guys brought onto the team without the (initial) expenditure of a scholarship slot.

The elder Glasgow was flipped from OSU, so they did something to emphasize that Michigan was a better place for them—something that paid off. Michigan's also brought in Bo Dever and Jack Wangler, wide receivers who might have some use down the road. Dever's already seeing playing time in the slot as a kind of replacement Dileo. (Unfortunately he cannot catch balls that glance off his fingertips.) Michigan's done fine with walk-ons under Hoke.

It's the guys with scholarships who have underperformed.

I really shouldn't answer this.

Not meaning to make comment section explode, but where do you think Michigan football would be right now had Brandon retained RR for another year with caveat that he was forced to hire a decent DC, money being no issue?

Peter, Horsham, PA

Oh man. This counterfactual is really really counterfactual. Rodriguez's recruiting had really cratered by the end, but what if he adds Casteel and runs a 3-3-5 that works-ish the next year while not, say, putting Denard Robinson under center for the Iowa game?

First: how much luck are we giving RR? Hoke's 11-2 opening campaign was ridiculously lucky, from the double-covered bombs to Hemingway to the 75% fumble recovery rate. If we're giving RR Hoke's butt-horseshoe I think Michigan has a season about as good, with the defense not quite reaching those Mattison levels and the offense not trying to do nonsense things with Denard.

I'm not sure that saves RR when Denard goes down in the middle of the next season and the OL falls off thanks to his crappy recruiting. But it's close.

Comments

UMaD

November 26th, 2014 at 6:26 PM ^

that no one will quit or leave the program under Hoke?

There are several recruits who look like they could be busts, which is completely normal and expected.  Bosch is off doing something somewhere... About half of Carr's OL recruits didn't pan out.  Most of Rodriguez's did.

RR's OL recruiting has been VASTLY superior to Hokes.  Though it's too early to judge Hoke on this front it is alarming that none of his highly ranked OL recruits were capable of being even average big 10 starters in their RS FR seasons.  Contrast with Lewan and Omameh(not to mention Fisher).  And that's with Hoke NEEDING it.  Schofield could have started and done fine but Dorrestein was around.  Hoke has had to resort to true freshman like Bosch and Cole.

UMaD

November 26th, 2014 at 4:31 PM ^

The 2008 class produced a 4 year star in Omemah and multi-year starter in Barnum.  Rodriguez always loved Barnum, as much as any other OG including Omameh, he just couldn't stay healthy.  Mealer became a starter and did fine.  More importantly, all the guys who played under both coaches (Lewan, Barnum, Omameh, Molk) looked BETTER under Rodriguez.  We never saw what Schofield, Mealer, Miller would have looked like under Rodriguez but there is plenty of reason to think they would look better than they did in 2012 and 2013.

Omameh was always an OL recruit.  He STARTS in the NFL.  He made all first team all conference.  That is more than serviceable.

Washington and Campbell flipped back and forth between OL and DL.  Campbell turned into a good DT under Mattison but is an NFL OLmen (where I believe Rodriguez had flipped him before he left).  Washington was another recruit Rodriguez loved, but Rodriguez left before he was needed.

Pace got hurt.  Rodriguez addressed the need the following season with Jack Miller, whose problem, supposedly, was being too small - less of an issue in RR's scheme. Anyway, he also had Khoury, who didn't return for his 5th year under Hoke.

All in all -- Rodriguez absolutely killed it in OL recruiting. 3 classes, 4 NFL draft picks plus 2 other capable college starters, and this including normal attrition for injuries, transfers, etc.  The ONE guy who was a flat-out bust was Wermers and even might have panned out if he stuck around (and bothered to study.)

True Blue Grit

November 26th, 2014 at 3:42 PM ^

In 3 years he basically got 2 good linemen (Lewan and Schofield), a couple average ones (Barnum and Omaneh), and the rest either busts or bench-warmers.  Washington was good, but switched to defense to shore up the horrible recruiting at that position.   Because of this mess, Hoke had to bring in 4 OL in 2012 (he wanted more) and 6 in 2013.  The numbers don't lie.  RR recruiting at OL left Michigan in a big hole which we're finally starting to dig ourselves out of.  

westwardwolverine

November 26th, 2014 at 4:02 PM ^

Nah. If we'd just had Jake Fisher last year, we would have been fine. Plus, Rodriguez got more out of young linemen than Hoke ever has. 

By the way, Omameh is an NFL player. 

And you can't blame a guy for not recruiting for the next guy when his job is on the line after two years. 

UMaD

November 26th, 2014 at 4:36 PM ^

You're ignoring maybe the best OLmen from the group - Omameh.  He did great as a FR and SO starter under Rodriguez, then coach Hoke came and...lets just say he didn't play to his strengths. He now starts in the NFL.  He was named all conference 1st team.

Barnum and Mealer were capable starters at the college level

Look back at Carr's OL recruits and you'll see only about 50% pan out in serviceable starters or better.  Rodriguez exceeded that by long shot, and that's without counting Fisher or Miller.

It's HOKE's fault Hoke didn't recruit enough good linemen in 2011 and 2012 to step in to start in 2013.  Not Rodriguez.

More importantly, it's Hoke's fault he could develop any of the 13 recruits ('11-'13) into viable starters by 2013.

gwkrlghl

November 27th, 2014 at 12:38 AM ^

You ignore the fact that OL recruits normally take several years to develop. By the time Hoke came in he was already in a huge hole from Richrod's failed OL recruiting and his inability to bring in many guys in the 2011 class due to timing.

Even if Hoke miraculously pulled in some great guys in 2011, he's still in a deep hole for the next few seasons. Hoke is responsible for the failings of his guys, but don't pretend like Richrod didn't leave Hoke with the cupboard bare

A2Fan

November 28th, 2014 at 6:52 AM ^

Like Hell I'm Not

RichRod had to endure even as 2 Offensive linemen decommitted on National signing day. The results of negative recruiting from within. Whereas Brady Hoke has been given the red carpet treatment from day one. The despicable behavior that hastened RR's departure is a cautionary tale that will not be lost on potential coaching candidates. Which is why an established AD with long standing relationships within the coaching ranks is needed to overcome such negative perceptions.

Leatherstocking Blue

November 26th, 2014 at 3:10 PM ^

Hopefully Harbaugh cares enough about Michigan to be entirely upfront and tell Hackett to move on if he has any doubts about a return to Ann Arbor. Waiting until the end of January hoping for Harbaugh only to see him be offered his dream NFL situation would be discouraging. Really, really discouraging.

RJWolvie

November 26th, 2014 at 3:30 PM ^

I think it is.
I know some on this board disagree with me on that & think Harbaugh was never seriously considered because he was never publicly offered, but IMHO public offers & turn-downs for positions like these only happen if someone see belt messes up. One finds out whether the answer will be yes (well out of the public eye) before popping the question

Realus

November 26th, 2014 at 6:14 PM ^

After seeing what happened to RR here (whether most of that was RR's fault or not, at least SOME of it was UM culture's fault).

Yes, there may be many good coaches who might come if they are approached but if any one of them is dumb enough to approach UM, then we shouldn't want them.  They are most likely going to fail.  The only exception would be those with prior strong UM ties such as Harbaugh or Miles.

The reasoning for this is simple:  If you approach UM, your bargaining position is weaker than if UM approaches you.  If UM approaches you, you can say (through your agent) that you want a 5 year deal that includes $5 mill for HC, $2 mill for each HC, $750 K for each position coach, and you want a 75% buyout.  UM can say no, and that's that.

If you approach UM on the other hand, you may be stuck with $250 K (or whatever it was) for your  DC and you won't have the leverage to get more.

Brodie

November 26th, 2014 at 6:24 PM ^

There was an SI report not that long ago speculating, as I myself have on the boards here this season, that if there's a disaffected P5 coach out there who might approach us for the job it would likely be someone like Al Golden at Miami who is dealing with institutional issues far worse than anything we've got going on here.

That's not the kind of name that will make anyone jump up and down with excitement, but it would be the most reasonable type of dark horse hire for us to make at this point... a guy who is dealing with sanctions that aren't his fault at a school with no fans. Larry Fedora would also fit this bill.

alum96

November 26th, 2014 at 3:18 PM ^

When I did my coaching diary on Patterson I thought he was basically Beilein of football who did not have to move from job to job to move up (unlike John).  Instead his team got moved up through various conferences so he had a Beilein like experience without having to change jobs.

The other guy who is football Beilein is Bill Snyder.  So those are the 2 football equivalents to Beilein.  Unfortunately one is headed towards 80 years old and the other already has a NC contender in a conference that does not have Bama impeding him and sits in the Texas gold mine.

kehnonymous

November 26th, 2014 at 3:16 PM ^

So, my turn to flog the deceased equine:

There are several reasons why RichRod failed, some of which were his fault (poor player attrition, hiring GERG when literally any non-Casteel stopgap would've been better) and many others of which were not his fault (Michael 'Rodent Anus' Rosenberg, lack of alum support, Lloyd yanking out the fifth column from underneath, etc etc)  But at the end of the day, his tenure had become so toxic that it wasn't even allowed on Britney Spears' jumbo jet

Michigan threw RichRod under the bus, full stop.  RichRod wasn't able to lift (raise?) himself out from under that bus.  That's unfair but such is life.  And, yes, there are any number of other parties at fault here and we all recite their names by heart, just like Arya Stark does every night before bed.  However, none of these people from Rosenberg to Boren were employed as Michigan's head coach and therefore could not be fired from the head coaching position.  RichRod was.

Brodie

November 26th, 2014 at 6:29 PM ^

I will never forget my shock at realizing that Brady Hoke had somehow landed Rocky Long, the inventor of the 3-3-5, as his DC at SDSU while we were stuck with fucking GERG. It boggles the mind. Say what you want about lack of money, I guarantee you GERG was pulling down more than Long by a huge margin.

alum96

November 26th, 2014 at 3:21 PM ^

The OL disaster and class of 2010 would have imploded anyone - including Saban for a year or two IMO.  But better coaches would have recovered from that and mitigated it by 2014.

Also the inability to get JUCOs hurts us badly in this case and next year with QB for example.  90% of schools out there would have infused 3 JUCO OL 2012ish preparing for 2013, and 90% of schools this year would have a JUCO QB out there to compensate for having Russ and Shane as your 2 best options.  Unfortunately we cannot.

RJWolvie

November 26th, 2014 at 7:48 PM ^

...and do you know whose name came up over the entire first couple of pages: one Braxton Miller. Wouldn't _that_ be just delicious; think of The Game next year if that happened! (Might as well add the OSU OC as our new HC while we're imagining insanely boosting The Rivalry back to incendiary heights!)

snarling wolverine

November 26th, 2014 at 4:21 PM ^

 

This has gotten me freaked out because it seems that there's an equivalent of a Mississippi State or Oklahoma State to Michigan move in basketball, and it's Michigan to UNC, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky or UCLA.

 

It's an insult to Michigan basketball to compare it to Miss State or Ok State in football.  We have a much better basketball history.  Final Fours in 1964, 1965, 1976, 1989, 1992, 1993 and 2013.  We've gone to the national title game in five of the last six decades.  We're unlucky to have only the one national title.  If a couple of those others go our way, we're a blueblood program.

 

 

snarling wolverine

November 26th, 2014 at 5:04 PM ^

Prior to the Ed Martin/Ellerbe-fueled collapse, we were perceived as a very strong national program, just a bit below the blue bloods.   If we'd have won a couple more titles, I don't think we'd have ever let that collapse happen - we wouldn't have hired Ellerbe and wouldn't have fallen behind everyone in the facilities race.  We would have invested more in the program instead of letting a decade in the wilderness go by first.     

But at any rate, 7 Final Fours in 50 years is still pretty awesome.

 

uminks

November 26th, 2014 at 5:46 PM ^

will probably make the playoffs since the remainder of their schedule is easy. The team and GM may not like Harbaugh but he will not come out and say he has accepted the Michigan job until the playoffs are over. I think our best chance is to have the 49ers lose a game and not make the playoffs.

Then it will be only a 50/50 chance Harbaugh will agree to coach here. There be a number of NFL teams beating Harbagh's door to coach their team.  The only way I see Harbaugh coaching here is if  he is just sick of coaching NFL players and would like to return to college coaching for a year. If he wants to try once more with an NFL team then it may be another 5 or 6 years before we have another chance to get Harbaugh.

The one big name coach who will accept our job would be Les Miles. But if we wait until late January Miles may not accept the job. A lot of coaches by then will be in the middle of their final recruiting trips.

Baughlieve

November 26th, 2014 at 8:36 PM ^

As long as he loses in the wild card round, we should be fine. I mean, is there that much of a difference between December 28th and January 3rd? It would have helped if we had beaten Maryland and were preoccuipied with a Bowl game for the time being.

GoBLUinTX

November 27th, 2014 at 1:26 AM ^

should still pull for Seattle tomorrow, yes?  In any case 49ers have Seattle twice, SD and AZ once each.  That could be two or three losses.  Detroit can probably win their next four of five games pushing the 49ers out of the WC mix.

My Name is LEGIONS

November 26th, 2014 at 6:23 PM ^

anybody notice whats missing in our O??? The deep ball. i cannot recall the last time we attacked deep downfield. Think about it.



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Dustinlo

November 28th, 2014 at 8:32 AM ^

I think any well thrown ball is missing from our offense. Gardner has made terrible decisions almost every game that costs us. What is unbelievable to me is our apparent inability to develop the QB position. Gardener has regressed. Morris looked worse than Gardner when he played and had been in the program for two years now. We all know about Bellomy. It's difficult to believe that we have failed so miserably in this regard.