B1G Coaching Tenures
There has been a lot of discussion on the MGoBoard about whether patience is warranted given that this is only Hoke's fourth season as head coach. I'm not going to belabor that discussion directly, but I thought it was worth pointing out that only Mark Dantonio among B1G East coaches has more seniority than Hoke and only four coaches overall have more seniority.
Here's the East: Hoke - 4th year; Flood - 3rd ; Edsall - 4th; Meyer - 3rd; Franklin - 1st; D'Antonio - 8th; Wilson - 3rd
And the West: Ferentz - 15th; Fitzgerald - 9th; Pelini - 7th; Kill - 4th; Beckman - 3rd; Hazell - 2nd; Anderson - 2nd.
September 11th, 2014 at 12:25 PM ^
Mike D'Antoni!
September 11th, 2014 at 12:30 PM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 12:33 PM ^
trajectory is everything
September 11th, 2014 at 12:35 PM ^
Why is there an apostrophe in Dantonio's last name? Why is the 'g' in Fitzgerald capitalized?
September 11th, 2014 at 12:39 PM ^
Because they sound like the names of foreigners. Also, it should be O'Pelini.
September 11th, 2014 at 12:37 PM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 12:38 PM ^
The last 4 years have kind of sucked.
But it seems like every 4-5 years Captain Kirt achieves something improbable.
I'm going to watch them lose to Iowa State by a butthair this weekend and then finish the season at 10-2.
1999: 1-10
2000: 3-9
2001: 7-5
2002: 11-2
2003: 10-3
2004: 10-2
2005: 7-5
2006: 6-7
2007: 6-6
2008: 9-4
2009: 11-2
2010: 8-5
2011: 7-6
2012: 4-8
2013: 8-5
September 11th, 2014 at 12:51 PM ^
When I look at Iowa last 4-5 years it's not too different than our last 4-5 years. Is Hoke on same coaching level as Ferentz? If so, is that good enough?
September 11th, 2014 at 1:32 PM ^
Ferentz had some VERY good years in the first 1/3rd of his career and almost always rolls out good defenses - Norm Parker before he died was excellent. Expectations are different there and relative to how they recruit they do well. They always have a good defense , they always have good offensive linemen. They almost always lack any serious high end RB, QB, or WR. I am generalizing but considering the lack of high starzzzz skill position players on offense he does a decent job there.
I dont think it is that far different than Minnesota - its not an easy place to recruit and who are they getting in the Midwest? The guys left over after ND, OSU and UM have picked. Competing with Minnesota Wisconsin MSU and Illinois. And Nebraska takes a bunch of the guys in the heartland as well.
All that said, the contract they gave him was ridiculous.
September 11th, 2014 at 2:13 PM ^
Ferentz has been nothing but average to above average. He had some good seasons when Drew Tate was there, but Drew was a really good QB and his defenses in those seasons were great. Other than that stretch, I see mediocrity. The same goes for Michigan since 1999 with the exception of some bright spots here and there.
September 11th, 2014 at 7:20 PM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 12:44 PM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 12:54 PM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 1:19 PM ^
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September 11th, 2014 at 1:21 PM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 2:30 PM ^
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September 11th, 2014 at 6:00 PM ^
If he's always on the "hot seat" anyway, the neg recruiting won't be helped by an extension. And an extension now is like the proverbial "vote of confidence".
September 11th, 2014 at 1:35 PM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 1:41 PM ^
at ND were a combined 28-11 with a NC game appearance in his 3rd year. Hoke was 26-13 through his first 3 years at UM.
September 11th, 2014 at 1:46 PM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 2:02 PM ^
How many coaches have suffered a blow-out/shut-out like last week in their first four years, and gone on to thrive at the same school? Not much of a researcher, but I know there are others out there who are.
September 11th, 2014 at 2:13 PM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 2:02 PM ^
How many coaches have suffered a blow-out/shut-out like last week in their first four years, and gone on to thrive at the same school? Not much of a researcher, but I know there are others out there who are.
September 11th, 2014 at 2:21 PM ^
Well, Kelly has also experienced far more off-the-field issues compared to Hoke, and depending on how this investigation shakes out that NC season might be wiped from the record books.
September 11th, 2014 at 12:56 PM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 1:38 PM ^
Jimbo Fisher (Florida State) (1 National Title, 2 Conference Titles)
2010: 10-4 (6-2) - Chick-Fil-A Bowl win
2011: 9-4 (5-3) - Champs Sports Bowl win
2012: 12-2 (7-1) - Orange Bowl win
2013: 14-0 (8-0) - Nation Champions
Nick Saban (Alabama) (2 National Titles, 1 Conference Title)
2007: 7-6 (4-4) - Independence Bowl win
2008: 12-2 (8-0) - Sugar Bowl loss
2009: 14-0 (8-0) - Nation Champions
2010: 10-3 (5-3) - Capital One Bowl win
2011: 12-1 (7-1) - National Champions
Gene Chizik (Auburn) (1 National Title, 1 Conference Title)
2009: 8-5 (3-5) - Outback Bowl win
2010: 14-0 (8-0) - National Champions
2011: 8-5 (4-4) - Chick-Fil-A Bowl win
2012: 3-9 (0-8)
Urban Meyer (Florida) (2 National Titles, 3 Conference Titles)
2005: 9-3 (5-3) - Outback Bowl win
2006: 13-1 (7-1) - National Champions
2007: 9-4 (5-3) - Capital One Bowl loss
2008: 13-1 (7-1) - National Champions
2009: 13-1 (8-0) - Sugar Bowl win
Les Miles (LSU) (1 National Title, 1 Conference Title)
2005: 11-2 (7-1) - Peach Bowl win
2006: 11-2 (6-2) - Sugar Bowl win
2007: 12-2 (6-2) - National Champions
2008: 8-5 (3-5) - Chick-Fil-A Bowl win
2009: 9-4 (5-3) - Capital One Bowl loss
Mack Brown (Texas) (0 National Titles, 0 Conference Titles)
1998: 9-3 (6-2) - Cotton Bowl win
1999: 9-5 (6-2) - Cotton Bowl loss
2000: 9-3 (7-1) - Holiday Bowl loss
2001: 11-2 (7-1) - Holiday Bowl win
2002: 11-2 (6-2) - Cotton Bowl win
Pete Carroll (USC) (2 National Titles, 4 Conference Titles)
2001: 6-6 (5-3) - Las Vegas Bowl loss
2002: 11-2 (7-1) - Orange Bowl win
2003: 12-1 (7-1) - Rose Bowl win (AP NC)
2004: 13-0 (8-0) - National Champions (Later Vacated)
2005: 12-1 (8-0) - Rose Bowl loss (national championship game) (Later Vacated)
Nick Saban (LSU) (1 National Title, 2 Conference Titles)
2000: 8-4 (5-3) - Peach Bowl win
2001: 10-3 (5-3) - Sugar Bowl win
2002: 8-5 (5-3) - Cotton Bowl loss
2003: 13-1 (7-1) - Sugar Bowl win - National Champions
2004: 9-3 (6-2) - Capital One Bowl loss
Jim Tressel (OSU) (1 National Title, 2 Conference Titles)
2001: 7-5 (5-3) - Outback Bowl loss
2002: 14-0 (8-0) - National Champions
2003: 11-2 (6-2) - Fiesta Bowl win
2004: 8-4 (4-4) - Alamo Bowl win
2005: 10-2 (7-1) - Fiesta Bowl win
Larry Coker (Miami, YTM) (1 National Title, 3 Conference Titles)
2001: 12-0 (7-0) - Rose Bowl win - National Champions
2002: 12-1 (7-0) - Fiesta Bowl loss (National Championship Game)
2003: 11-2 (6-1) - Orange Bowl win
2004: 9-3 (5-3) - Peach Bowl win
2005: 9-3 (6-2) - Peach Bow loss
September 11th, 2014 at 1:52 PM ^
Thanks for doing that work.
You registered a year ago and this is your first post? Great patience!
September 11th, 2014 at 2:13 PM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 1:39 PM ^
The big difference is the NC coaches made an immediate impact at the school where they took over
Unlike at Michigan after Carr '06-07 and Rich Rod, these coaches didn't have a roster to rebuild AND system to install:
Mack Brown (Texas 2005)
@ UNC, his first 5 years he was 24-31. Final 5 years at UNC he was 45-15
@ Texas he was 70-19 in the 7 years before they won it all
Urban Meyer (Florida 2006 & 2008):
@ BG he was 17-6 in 2 years, then 22-2 at Utah. He went 9-3 at Florida before winning it all
Les Miles (LSU 2007):
@ OkSt, he was 28-21 in 4 seasons. He won it all in his 4th year at LSU, having gone 34-6 prior to that
Nick Saban (Alabama 2009, 2011, 2012):
@ MSU he was 34-24 in 5 seasons. @ LSU he was 48-16 in 5 seasons with a championship in 2003. @ Alabama he went 7-6 then 12-2 before reeling off 3 titles in 4 years
Gene Chizik (Auburn 2010):
He's the exception. He went 5-19 in 2 years at Iowa St, then 8-5 in his first season at Auburn before going 14-0 behind Cam Newtown and some booster cash.
JimBo Fisher (see what I did there?) (FSU, 2013):
31-10 in 3 seasons at FSU prior to 2013 championship
September 11th, 2014 at 1:59 PM ^
I think it'd be more interesting to put together trajectory of *all* coaching changes of maybe the upper 50 schools of the last decade or so.
Just using 10 NC coaches is a self fulfilling data set. I don't think Michigan has the power to pull guys of that caliber in any case. The list of candidates is meager enough right now that my personal feeling is there's a good chance you have a bunch of upheaval just to land in the same spot again. I know people love pointing to the Malzahns and Harbaughs of the world, but that's the exception to the rule.
September 11th, 2014 at 2:36 PM ^
To be honest, none of those guys outside of Saban had much experience as a head coach at a big time football program before they landed at those spots. Miles and Brown were probably the closest with their success as head coaches at Oklahoma St and UNC. Meyer had coached at 2 mid major programs. Stoops had been a DC at Florida under Spurrier. Fisher had mainly been a coordinator at big time programs. Chizik had been OC at Auburn a bit before his head coaching stint at Iowa St. Tressell had been in 1-AA. Carroll had spent the better part of the previous decade in the pros.
Anytime you go on a coaching search it's probably going to be a crap shoot. Rarely, if ever, does a successful coach at a big time program leave to go to another school. You pretty much have to hire a coach from a 'lower tier' school or coordinator from a big time program.
September 11th, 2014 at 2:58 PM ^
Exactly, that's why looking at just the NC coaches doesn't make sense. You're basically reducing your data set to just the winners of the crap shoot. The colleges that got those guys got very lucky, for every one of those, there's many others that end up in a coaching carousel.
September 11th, 2014 at 12:57 PM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 12:58 PM ^
I think Hoke is a great person to have in the Michigan program. He bleeds maize and blue and truly loves this school. The problem is, he's just not the right head football coach to lead us back to glory. He doesn't wear a headset (beats dead horse), he doesn't call the plays, and he really did look baffled versus Notre Dame.
September 11th, 2014 at 1:01 PM ^
look, that was a look of acceptance they couldn't and wouldn't beat ND, and that's more disturbing than being baffled.
September 11th, 2014 at 1:20 PM ^
Brady Hoke sideline instructions:
1. Point towards the ball
2. Stare in disbelief after play
3. Clap hands and slap butts of players coming off the field
4. Repeat as necessary
September 11th, 2014 at 1:01 PM ^
2–9
3–8
6–4–1
7–4
5–6
2–8–1
Should have run this guy out of Blacksburg.
September 11th, 2014 at 1:09 PM ^
From his Wikipedia Page:
"Beamer took over a Virginia Tech football program that was largely unsuccessful in its first century, having reached only six bowl games to that point."
September 11th, 2014 at 1:11 PM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 1:20 PM ^
VTU had 7 winning seasons in row, including the year before Beamer. Their schedule was very soft and out of those 7 winning season were rewarded with just 3 bowl invites.
A typical VTU schudele included William And Mary, Richmond, Clemson, Wake Forest, Tulane, Louisville and VMI.
They had little history prior to Beamer's arrival, I won't argue with that.
September 11th, 2014 at 1:25 PM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 1:38 PM ^
I just don't think terrible is the right word.. They were a smaller program transitioning to bigger and better things back then.
Its a little bit like maybe a MAC team joining the BIG Ten. There would be a painful transition period even if they had had great success in the MAC.
September 11th, 2014 at 1:10 PM ^
prior to Beamer, VTU was an Independant, and weak one at that. One that played a schedule that included as many as 3 D1AA opponents along with a slew of pretty weak opponents to begin with.
Beamer was hired just prior to joining the Big East, a definite upgrade in competition and stature. I suggest he was given more time for other reasons than he was just a good football coach.
September 11th, 2014 at 1:23 PM ^
Apples. Meet Oranges.
VT was a horrid no history program. The comparison for Beamer is a guy like Snyder at Kansas State. Or Boise State 12 years ago etc.
If you want do apples to apples compare ND post Holtz, compare Bama in the Shula era, compare USC post Carroll, compare Oklahoma post Switzer, Nebraska post Osborne etc.
Also I think ALL these comparisons have no merit. For every outlier who started out bad after 3-4 seasons who goes on to rousing success (1 guy out of 20) another 5 out of 20 were ok coaches, and the other the other 14 were mediocre to bad coaches where the first 3 years proved exactly what they are. So we can pick the outliers and say we surely have the outlier or we can go with probability.
People defending Willingham and Weiss could say the same thing after 3-4 years. "Hey would you have fired Beamer or Dantonio!?" (if Dantonio had been around in those days)
September 11th, 2014 at 1:30 PM ^
Heck you could go all the way back to 1990. Can't remember who was the USC coach that beat Bo in his last game (Homer Smith??) but from that Rose Bowl until Carroll arrived was nothing special. I think they only went to one Rose Bowl over that time frame (beat Northwestern).
September 11th, 2014 at 1:42 PM ^
was coach at USC following the infamous Ted Tollner, then they brought John Robinson back when things went south for Smith his last two years
September 11th, 2014 at 2:02 PM ^
Yep they had a nice transition from McKay to Robinson 1.0 similar to Bo to Carr (skip Moeller) . Tollner was meh. Larry Smith had some good seasons but stumbled the longer he was there. Then they went back to Robinson 2.0, who was less successful in his 2nd stint. Then a mediocre coach in Hackett. The 1980s had a lot of Carr like seasons of 3/4 loss type teams, and then some spike upward late in the decade. The 1990s were essentially for USC what we are dealing with now - lots of 4,5,6 loss seasons.
Then Carroll showed up.
September 11th, 2014 at 2:08 PM ^
had NCAA sanctions to deal with. I think the reason Robinson was asked to resign or was fired the first time was also infractions related.
Smith was succesful while Rodney Peete was QB, once he graduated the Trojans slipped, cluminating in their 3-8 disaster season of 1990. They bounced back to 6-4-1 the next but the USC faithful had lost faith in him as their leader and he was fired.
Smith was the man in charge during the Todd Marinovich era, which he received a lot of heat for his handling of his QB.
September 11th, 2014 at 1:06 PM ^
IMO it is not that Hoke lost to ND this year but rather how we lost. If this game had been a close fought battle into the 4th quarter instead of a shutout people would be much more relaxed.
At this point I'm worried about vUtah, vPenn St, and @Rutgers. I'm terrified of @MSU and @OSU. As far as I'm concerned Hoke needs to get at least 9 wins this season+bowl to have my support for another year.
September 11th, 2014 at 2:10 PM ^
I keep saying that look how long it took Dantonio to get his program where it is now. I know Michigan fans in general don't want to wait and want immediate success, but I think we need to have a little more patience. If Hoke finishes around .500 this and next year, then sure, perhaps it will be time to move on, but I still don't think he should be fired after this year if he has another bad season. I really think the 2015 season will be the ultimate decision maker.