NCAA joins CMU's own investigation of sideline sighting of CS
Even more reason that the Big Ten should just leave this to the NCAA.
November 6th, 2023 at 3:11 PM ^
It benefits UM because Stalions was there to scout MSU and make sure the MSU signs were the same as before. As an additional benefit he could've helped out CMU decode MSU's signs if he wanted to, but that was not the main purpose of him being there.
November 6th, 2023 at 3:51 PM ^
I don't think you can make that statement. It is not at all clear that he was not there to help CMU. That is a much more likely scenario. The extra benefit would be to scout for the upcoming UM game too, but no one in their right mind would show up in person on an opponent sideline. Way to obvious. This is next level dumb!
November 6th, 2023 at 2:01 PM ^
I get the feeling that CMU's investigators are working just as hard as Captain Renault in Casablanca.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:06 PM ^
The quote that referenced the Manifesto said that he had colleagues (of a sort) in other programs.
Do the coaches of those programs now go down with him too?
Would it be rich if one of them is OSU?
November 6th, 2023 at 2:06 PM ^
I bet they were shocked--SHOCKED--to find there was sign stealing going on in there
November 6th, 2023 at 2:16 PM ^
obligatory:
November 6th, 2023 at 3:30 PM ^
Someone should paste Ryan Day’s head over Louis, and have they guy walking up with his winnings say “Here’s video of Michigan’s practice from last week sir”.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:01 PM ^
There is no way cmu doesn't know who that is. They are just trying to figure out how to cover their own ass as to why he is given sideline passes and cmu coaches gear
November 6th, 2023 at 2:03 PM ^
Agreed, I have a feeling a low level staffer hooked him up. Maybe a fellow sign enthusiast???
November 6th, 2023 at 2:35 PM ^
Would not be surprising. Based on one of the stories, Connor had a network of other hustlers and up-and-comers. Not unreasonable to think he knew a guy at CMU and used that connection. Connor would be a 'big shot' after all to a random GA at Central
November 6th, 2023 at 2:48 PM ^
I believe the SI article said that he had two friends who were D1 staffers also and that all three of them together planned to take over Michigan football. Very possible one of the two are at CMU.
November 6th, 2023 at 3:23 PM ^
Does not explain why CMU wouldn’t just reveal this and punish or fire a low level staffer.
November 6th, 2023 at 4:18 PM ^
I am guessing the media firestorm surrounding another low level staffer might have given them pause. Everyone is in ready, fire, aim mode.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:16 PM ^
I’m sure CMU effectively knows it’s stallions but his name isn’t registered, and he’s not talking to CMU, so unless CMU finds someone on their staff who confirms to them they gave the pass to him, there’s 0 chance they positively identify someone without 100% proof.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:17 PM ^
AFIAK, you need to show ID to pick up a sideline pass.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:43 PM ^
CMU is in a box. If they knew it was CS and they let him in, that's problematical. What was he doing for you?
But if they claim they have no idea who this guy is who made it onto their sidelines dressed in official coaching gear, then their security is in trouble.
Unlike assistant coaches groveling for jobs, there is no way that security is going to just take the fall for this.
November 6th, 2023 at 3:28 PM ^
They knew, almost certain of it. Based on CMU's response they are now making sure there was not an audit trail to the $$$. The only way we'll know with more certainty is if someone has to testify under oath.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:17 PM ^
Agreed! There has to be some sort of paper/electronic trail for these types of things. They don't just hand out passes and tell them to scribble their names in Crayon, do they?
November 6th, 2023 at 2:53 PM ^
"scribble their names in Crayon, do they?"
Isn't that how they take tests in the SEC? Just use a Crayon to put a check mark where it says "Name" and you get 100%.
November 6th, 2023 at 3:02 PM ^
No, but invisible ink is commonplace.
November 6th, 2023 at 3:56 PM ^
CMU is hoping there isn't any paper trail of compensation. It's one thing to do a favor for a friend, it's another to pay for the assistance.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:02 PM ^
Also, they continue to include the trash "analysis" from the MSU professor. Am I off-base or isn't a score of 0.6 only slightly better than a coin flip?
November 6th, 2023 at 2:05 PM ^
Hey, that process can take identical pictures and tell you they're identical.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:22 PM ^
This will really mess with their algorithm:
November 6th, 2023 at 2:49 PM ^
Not really a fair test as the one dinosaur is disguised.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:06 PM ^
You're likely off-base, but there's absolutely no way to know.
It might be that the score matches directly to a probability, but I don't think so. It's more likely that there's some sort of mapping that has to be applied. So it's possible that a score of .6 is actually very high, but we'd need to see the rest of the data to know.
Specifically, you'd need to ask the question, how often will the algorithm return a score of 0.6 or higher when the input data are two separate people? In order to make the claim that the professor is making, you'd normally expect that answer to be < 5%.
The talk about "it's because he's wearing a disguise" is troubling -- not only does it make the software look useless, but it also looks like he might be assuming the answer and then explaining the score. If the software works, you'd expect that the disguise would be ineffective, right?
November 6th, 2023 at 2:16 PM ^
Saying "he must be wearing a disguise" is a presupposition that automatically negates their position of objectivity. Which...given it's an expert from MSU, was already in question before that statement was even made.
And ESPN ran with it. Because this passes for "objective journalism" nowadays.
Also, presenting this data without any other context makes it essentially worthless. I have no idea if 0.6 is actually high or not. Because I have no idea what the hell it means. But my own interpretation (on a probabilistic 0-1 scale) would expect something that's closer to 1 than it is to a coin flip....and if that's not the case, that's precisely why context is essential.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:27 PM ^
Also, the claim that he's "wearing a disguise" is ambiguous troubling. There's no explanation of what the "disguise" is. If a hat and sunglasses are the "disguise" then thousands of football fans wear a "disguise" to games and most of CMU's staff had on at least half of the "disguise". It also presumes that the person is trying to conceal their identity.
November 6th, 2023 at 3:06 PM ^
Yup, great point. Though I suppose it could be referring to him possibly wearing a wig under the hat?
This whole thing is bonkers.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:24 PM ^
When this article came out last weekend.. I had explained that this is a not even close to high confidence.. Again, high confidence has to be .9 - 1.0..
Even in linear regression and when using Chi-Squared, you need. 9 to show correlation.. Never in my engagement on AI/ML services/technology and MLM that you could say you have high confidence on .6 because:
1. Companies would be paying a lot of $$ for these services/technology
2. If the data model is just wrong, you would not place your neck on the line for .6 (of all things)
Again, I wrote that either model worked meaning that there is no high confidence that it is Connor or his data model that is used to analyze his 4500 images (I believe was his count) is just flat out bad... So to jump that he could conclusive have high confidence that it is Connor should tell you that Jain is no expert...
November 6th, 2023 at 2:32 PM ^
I think you are probably right, but it's possible to design a system where there is little difference between a 0.6 and a 0.99, and still a big difference between 0.1 and 0.6.
You're assuming that he's using the same sort of scales you've seen before. I'm being more generous, I think, and allowing for the possibility that he might have come up with a different scale rather than he might just be a blathering idiot. :)
November 6th, 2023 at 4:00 PM ^
They supposedly compared it to 2400 photos. That doesn't seem like very many photos and how were those photos chosen?
November 6th, 2023 at 2:08 PM ^
And since this "expert" is from MSU, isn't there likely to be some inherent bias? Of all the facial recognition experts Sleaze-SPN could have sought, did they pick one from MSU so they'd have a person more likely to give them the answers they wanted?
November 6th, 2023 at 2:56 PM ^
They need to run an analysis on the face of that guy who violated that poor shark, while they're at it. $1 says it comes out higher than 0.6 for McElwain.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:02 PM ^
I can't get over the hilarity of people spending weeks trying to figure out who this guy is on the sideline. It's not rocket science.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:11 PM ^
I personally think that it was Stalions, but what possibly could be gained about him being down there? I think he was a guy getting away with stuff that wanted to see what else he could get away with. What is crazy is there is video of McElwain walking RIGHT BY him. Did nobody stop and ask "who the hell is this guy?"
November 6th, 2023 at 2:18 PM ^
If they offered him a chance to help hang a bad MAC loss on MSU they probably didn't need to ask twice. Or "hire" him.
My theory anyway.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:37 PM ^
Scouting a team from the stands is one thing but blatantly suiting up in CMU gear obviously trying to pass yourself off as a staffer is nuts. From what I can tell, there’s two definitive parcels of a team’s sideline:
1. Those who are actual players, coaches, training/medical staff, yard markers, ball boys and sometimes administration during celebratory moments. Again, this group is closest to the field between the designated 20’s I believe.
2. Those who have an obligation to safety/security, media members or someone with a verified sideline pass of some sort that only allows them to watch the game from a certain distance in a predetermined zone or area and need entry in/out of any entrance or exit.
That said, if this was him, what group was Stalions supposed to be in and what group did he end up in and why?
I would love to have a laugh about this and I’m sure in a few years we’ll all find it amusing but having this dude on the payroll was not good. Things will play out but I wish there was more oversight to this dude’s role and responsibilities.
November 6th, 2023 at 3:55 PM ^
Like when Kramer starts working at Brandt-Leland, without being hired by them.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:12 PM ^
How far is the drive to Mt. pleasant from your place Magnus? Also, can you verify where you were that afternoon?!
November 6th, 2023 at 2:17 PM ^
It’s lunacy to its highest form for these B1G programs and administrations to spend this much time dedicated to something somebody else is already investigating. Like, don’t you have your own game to worry about?
Im just imagining NCAA investigators showing up to the B1G Meeting with Ono to take it over saying “we’ll take it from here, boys”.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:02 PM ^
What are they investigating? Whether it was him or how he got there? I think we all know it was him at this point, but he should just deny it and make them prove it. What a clown show.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:08 PM ^
Do we, though? It's not a very strong likeness of him, in my opinion. Similarities, sure. But the build, the hair, the more more angular facial structure of the CMU guy. The picture doesn't scream Stalions to me.
Edit: I did just look again, and I'm still not sold. I take back my build comment (they are similar) and maybe Connor having a full beard in M photos versus just goatee in CMU photos impacts the angular structure. But I'm still not sold.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:13 PM ^
If it wasn't him wouldn't we have heard something by now about who it was? That would seem pretty obvious.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:19 PM ^
It's possible that it's somebody else and they still don't know how he got there. At this point, Occam's Razor is it's him, youre' right. But I maintain my skepticism.
November 6th, 2023 at 3:43 PM ^
Connor Stallions is actually Big Foot in disguise...that's the real story!
November 6th, 2023 at 4:12 PM ^
lol...excellent!
November 6th, 2023 at 2:03 PM ^
I don't think we had confirmation (or psuedo confirmation) that the NCAA was looking at CMU too. So it could be that Stalions really like stole a sideline pass and CMU game day gear and was out there without anyone noticing. Or someone helped him get there. I figured the scilence from CMU implied that somone invited/helped him and CMU is trying to cover their own ass. So could be anywhere from Stalions did all himself and since he isn't cooperating no one can confirm anything as only Stalions would know it was him. Or it could all the way be to someone likely low on CMUs staff asked/helped Stalions all the way to providing CMU with information.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:16 PM ^
This is a bit like how people act like certain politicians are both idiots and also capable of playing 8D chess. Stalions has not displayed anything close to the guile to sneak onto a field with a sideline pass + coaching gear without anyone noticing all game, and so it is far more likely he was let onto the sideline by someone at CMU. And that makes sense - one of the guys who was working with him on the Manifesto was a staffer at "Central".