Ohio State inquired about in-person scouting for CFP last season
Link to article by SignGate friend Ross Dellenger. They were actually told, "Yes, you can send people to scout the other game."
Seems kind of relevant now. Just a little bit.
EDIT - fixed link - LSA
October 28th, 2023 at 4:29 PM ^
Regardless of what happens with Michigan with this sign stealing issue, EVERYBODY’S dirty laundry is about to get aired out right now.
If OSU did it, you can bet your bottom dollar it’s coming to the surface, too. And all their self-righteous moral high ground horseshit from the last week and a half about “PROTECT THE SANCTITY OF THE GAME, WE NEED TO PROTECT FAIR COMPETITION AND BAN MICHIGAN FOR THE NEXT DECADE” goes right out the window.
October 28th, 2023 at 4:38 PM ^
Agreed!
October 28th, 2023 at 5:06 PM ^
I think the counter argument here is that OSU asked for permission, and it was granted, which is different from what CS did. Though again, it wasn't a blatant rule violation, but certainly a gray area.
Seems to further add that they knew CS, or his minions, were in-person scouting. This makes OSU look like the 'extreme rule followers', and Michigan look like the bad guy. If there was any doubt this investigation started at OSU, this would seem to be completely consistent.
In summation- the entire thing is still fucking ridiculous. It was ok to scout in person at playoff games, but not during the regular season. I will caveat that the CFP did add a rule to make it illegal to in-person scout. But this wasn't the rule at the time.
October 28th, 2023 at 6:43 PM ^
Yeah, I’m not seeing the sizzle here. They asked permission while we had a numb nuts that never should have been here and surely wasn’t vetted. Stallions isn’t innocent and neither are those who let him roam the halls.
October 28th, 2023 at 7:07 PM ^
Based on what? Dude was a hustler who went to the Naval Academy. Why would they think he would do something so dumb?
October 28th, 2023 at 7:46 PM ^
Naval Academy has hubris and egos too. I get the feeling CS peaked at the Naval Academy and since then has over-stated himself on LinkedIn, to coaches, and to peers. He has a rumored "Michigan Manifesto" document showing his over-zealous tunnel vision. A case of misplaced confidence.
That goes even if Michigan manages to come out more or less clean. I don't think any of us are loving the loosey goosey CS style and details that keep leaking. A little too much of a "fanatic" with a potential side personal agenda and not enough of a business-like approach.
October 28th, 2023 at 8:28 PM ^
In hindsight, sure, it's easy to say oh he was a fanatic! Hiring a tireless super fan is a bad idea. Must be a freak. And maybe there were enough warning signs. Maybe there should have been better vetting. We don't really know. But it's really not fair to say that he had a Michigan Manifesto and therefore they should not have hired him. I seriously doubt he presented that at his interview.
Or maybe he did, what do I know. Maybe Harbaugh thought it was impressive.
November 8th, 2023 at 2:29 PM ^
I didn't say he was a freak nor that there should have been better vetting. I understand why you would think that, but I was discussing him now, and of course it is in hindsight for all of us as we did not know of him prior. That's a given.
Just he's a guy with misplaced confidence. He was showcasing his magical sign stealing wisdom in his LinkedIn profile instead of keeping it more buttoned up. He was an easy target to key in on for other schools.
And he IS claimed to have made a Michigan Manifesto.
October 28th, 2023 at 4:53 PM ^
I’m not sure what to take from this report… It would imply that Ohio State officially asked for a rule clarification before they attempted it. Like a due diligence was done here.
edit: …or implying that Ohio State asked to see if they could get Michigan in-trouble and were told no, it wouldn’t?
October 28th, 2023 at 5:05 PM ^
In my mind, it takes away the credibility of anyone who says what Michigan did was "egregious" cheating (if they have any credibility at this point anyway). Ohio State tried to do the same thing!!! And were given permission to!
In every other sport you're allowed to scout. I coached 2nd grade basketball a few years ago and could have scouted every team if I wanted to. In high school, they let you in games for free (free!) if you're scouting.
This is a slap on the wrist. As others have stated, slap a show cause on Stalions, fine Michigan and move on.
October 28th, 2023 at 5:45 PM ^
What's more, in-person scouting is perfectly legal at other levels of football. Just not college.
October 28th, 2023 at 7:16 PM ^
I wish Connor Statlions was scouting my high school games instead of my shop teacher. We might have won more.
October 28th, 2023 at 6:25 PM ^
Exactly. If ever there was a game where you wouldn’t want to give a team an additional advantage it would be the championship games. But they said yes.
game over This is all bs
October 28th, 2023 at 10:04 PM ^
Bylaw 11.6.1.2 expressly makes an exception for Championship games.
https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/bylawView?id=33046
11.6 Scouting of Opponents.
11.6.1 Off-Campus, In-Person Scouting Prohibition. Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited, except as provided in Bylaws 11.6.1.1 and 11.6.1.2. (Adopted: 1/11/94 effective 8/1/94, Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 1/19/13 effective 8/1/13, 1/15/14)
11.6.1.1 Exception -- Same Event at the Same Site. An institutional staff member may scout future opponents also participating in the same event at the same site. (Revised: 1/11/94 effective 8/1/94, 10/28/97 effective 8/1/98, 1/19/13 effective 8/1/13, 9/19/13, 2/7/20, 6/30/21 effective 8/1/21)
11.6.1.2 Exception -- Conference or NCAA Championships. An institutional staff member may attend a contest in the institution's conference championship or an NCAA championship contest in which a future opponent participates (e.g., an opponent on the institution's spring nonchampionship-segment schedule participates in a fall conference or NCAA championship). (Adopted: 1/15/14, Revised: 2/7/20, 6/30/21 effective 8/1/21)
October 28th, 2023 at 10:40 PM ^
I don't understand. Their example says a spring sport can scout the team that plays in a fall championship before their spring season. Give me one example where this is even a thing.
October 28th, 2023 at 5:34 PM ^
I don't think so.
OSU would go through the motions only as a way to play their version of 3D chess. This isn't a school that has typically asked for permission before playing fast and loose with rules.
October 28th, 2023 at 5:36 PM ^
edit: …or implying that Ohio State asked to see if they could get Michigan in-trouble and were told no, it wouldn’t?
I didn't think of that. That's funny, and bizarrely possible.
October 28th, 2023 at 6:14 PM ^
Comrades, you’re all missing the point. OSU asked the question because they wanted to bust Michigan for scouting their game against Georgia. They were already planning their investigation of M.
October 28th, 2023 at 6:20 PM ^
That is, in fact, one of the points Bo Flex was making.
October 28th, 2023 at 7:21 PM ^
That was the first thing that occurred to me. Also, just something along the lines of, 'Well, we understand that other school(s) are doing this and we don't want to be left behind.'
Also: this suggests that Stalions's taping goes back more than a season?
Again, I REALLY think we need some sympathetic investigative reporter to get granular about the limited benefits of doing this in comparison to what's already happening. With Seth and Brian to hold their hand and walk them through it. Where is our old pal Wojo still at it? I miss reading him, but was damned if I was going to pay. . .
October 28th, 2023 at 7:53 PM ^
Also: this suggests that Stalions's taping goes back more than a season?
Yeah man. Taping accusations go back to 2021. Welcome to the story.
October 28th, 2023 at 7:30 PM ^
What if they did? Soo what? They ran the largest cheating scandal in CFB and it’s ok because a rival snitched? Where was that energy when Harbaugh tried to turn OSU in? Snitching seemed to be approved by this group in that case.
No one knows who turned it in and that’s not the point, but the hypocrisy is real. I’m sure the vast majority of UM fans are embarrassed they cheated.
October 28th, 2023 at 7:35 PM ^
Of course, most here don't want cheating, even by one staff. But, OSU did it forever. That doesn't stop them from spouting their mouth. So, stop judging us and lecturing us about morality.
October 28th, 2023 at 7:43 PM ^
Anyone that thinks watching live football along with 100,000 other people is cheating is a loser. Fortunately nobody truly thinks that. They just feel compelled to defend a rule they would have called stupid if you asked them 2 weeks ago.
Not me though, I don't think it's cheating to violate this rule nor is it cheating to violate a bunch of other rules in their stupid regulations, which were amateurishly slapped together over 60 years.
October 28th, 2023 at 7:55 PM ^
What if they did? Soo what?
Uh, the so what is it's funny. Very soft, as evidenced by your panicky comment here.
October 31st, 2023 at 4:09 PM ^
You are confusing who gives a F with panic. Seek help
October 31st, 2023 at 4:51 PM ^
Okay. I'm sorry I mischaracterized your post as panicky.
October 28th, 2023 at 8:03 PM ^
Don’t you have a game to watch?
October 28th, 2023 at 9:06 PM ^
Edit - deleted accidental double post. Thanks
October 28th, 2023 at 9:16 PM ^
Care to explain why you posted verbatim the same comment an hour and a half apart?
October 28th, 2023 at 9:19 PM ^
Your fanbase is all over something we allegedly did that you did, too. Yes, the hypocrisy is very real.
October 28th, 2023 at 6:46 PM ^
“Their ringer spotted our ringer.”
October 28th, 2023 at 5:00 PM ^
I don't think it was a coincidence Day remained silent through this SignGate...
October 28th, 2023 at 5:58 PM ^
Somebody should ask him directly just to see him squirm.
Maybe Lou Holtz could do it.
October 28th, 2023 at 6:07 PM ^
Bacon said on Sam's show yesterday morning that when Day went on McAfee's show (I believe it was his) Day told them before he went on that he will not answer any questions about Michigan
October 28th, 2023 at 5:59 PM ^
OSU's sign stealing was born on 3rd base
October 28th, 2023 at 6:23 PM ^
The idea that Ohio State tries to take the moral high ground and anything is laughable to me
October 28th, 2023 at 6:26 PM ^
which part of asking if it's ok do you not get? it is called doing it the right way per the rules. Nice try at deflection though.
October 28th, 2023 at 6:35 PM ^
Wow. Suddenly, buckeyes are the epitomy of morality and ethics. Nice.
October 28th, 2023 at 6:37 PM ^
Your program has been curb stomped the last two years by Michigan. And your coach hired a firm to try and discredit Michigan. Nice try at deflection though. Asshat.
October 28th, 2023 at 7:10 PM ^
The right way of stealing.
Do you know how stupid and unethical that sounds?
Anyways, if it’s discovered that the information was acquired illegally and OSU representative received it….eep.
October 28th, 2023 at 7:13 PM ^
So in-person scouting is fine and dandy if you ask permission, but a corrosive destruction of the spirit of fair competition if you don’t.
Sounds legit.
October 28th, 2023 at 9:21 PM ^
I think it's more that it's ok if Ohio State does it but the crime of the century when it's Michigan.
October 28th, 2023 at 8:05 PM ^
Deflection is saying OSU only lost the last two years because Michigan cheated. Which all of you are currently saying.
You lost in 2021 because you couldn’t stop the most simplistic Michigan gameplan. Michigan threw the ball four times in the second half and you still couldn’t stop it. At that point, losing is on you, sign stealing or not.
You changed your signs last year because you were worried Michigan had stolen your signs, and then you lost by even more. And then plenty of you started bitching about Michigan figuring out calling in your signs during the game last year base on that video. If you changed your signs before the 2022 Game, and then Michigan still figured out in-game, that is perfectly legal. And that says more about OSU than it does about Michigan.
You reek of a fanbase that has no idea how to handle losing, so you bitch and moan about cheating to make yourselves feel better.
If Michigan broke rules, they should be given a fair and reasonable punishment. That’s fine. They did break the rules in some regard so there should be a consequence for that. But sign stealing is not why you lost. If you think sign stealing is so egregious, I’m happy to spot you three touchdowns for last year’s game. You still would’ve lost, by the way.
You lost because you have a soft fucking team, led by an even softer, insecure football coach.
Your coach is a pussy.
October 28th, 2023 at 10:58 PM ^
Thanks for saving me lots of typing. OSU fans are going to keep moving the goalposts so that they can pretend they didn’t get crushed two years in a row. They are 10-ply-soft, entitled whiners, just like their beloved team. They are pissed that their PR firm hits harder than their players.
When Day loses again this year, he will be out of excuses. They will have to either fire him or accept their second tier status in the conference.
October 28th, 2023 at 8:06 PM ^
I think you’re missing the point, Buckeye. Why is it cheating when we allegedly do it but not when you do it? That’s the point of the article. To think that it would’ve been fine had we asked permission is worthy of ridicule.
October 28th, 2023 at 8:37 PM ^
According to this fucking asshat, breaking the rules is totally fine as long as you ask permission to do it.
OSU fans are just as capable of mental gymnastics as they claim we are.
October 28th, 2023 at 9:22 PM ^
Living in an alternate reality where, when they beat us, it's deserved but when we beat them, it's thanks to the biggest cheating scandal in CFB history.
October 28th, 2023 at 9:52 PM ^
Michigan loses in 2016: You all lost. JT converted. Stop being a bunch of whiners, suck it up and do better next time. Stop making excuses. We’re just better than you.
Michigan wins in 2021: We had the flu. It was too cold. It was a fluke. Blind squirrels find nuts every now and again.
Michigan wins in 2022: We dominated you outside of five plays. You all cheated. That’s the only possible way we could’ve lost. You stole signs, so you need to forfeit and give us that win. You’re worse than Sandusky. How dare you violate the sanctity of the college game.