OT: MLB Hot Stove heating up! LFGM
Winter meetings in San Diego have started with a bang!
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34978887/mlb-free-agency-news-rumors-updates-2022-23
After losing Jacob deGrom to the Rangers last week (5/$185M), the Mets have pivoted nicely, signing Justin Verlander (2/$86M). Could David Price and Doug Fister be that far behind?
What moves are you hoping your favorite team makes this week?
December 5th, 2022 at 12:39 PM ^
Fister, I barely know her.....
December 5th, 2022 at 3:13 PM ^
The juxtaposition of your avatar and this sentence is pure comedic gold. Thank you. +1
December 5th, 2022 at 4:12 PM ^
Sometimes we have to take sophomoric layup attempt when it is available. You are most welcome!
December 5th, 2022 at 12:39 PM ^
I have a 65mph fastball and a 64 mph changeup. My DMs are open.
December 5th, 2022 at 12:52 PM ^
4 yrs $180 mil is probably all you can get in today's market
December 5th, 2022 at 1:18 PM ^
Are you Jamie Moyer?
December 5th, 2022 at 1:36 PM ^
I am old and wily. But not crafty.
December 5th, 2022 at 1:59 PM ^
Seriously. Sure, I throw it at half the speed, but I only cost half the money. You're getting the same value on a per-mph basis.
December 5th, 2022 at 7:15 PM ^
Found Doug Jones's account.
December 5th, 2022 at 12:39 PM ^
Baseball? We talkin' bout baseball?
December 5th, 2022 at 6:15 PM ^
This one time at band camp...
December 5th, 2022 at 12:43 PM ^
Verlander reunited with Scherzer.
December 5th, 2022 at 1:22 PM ^
Someone call Rick Porcello. They're getting the ole gang back together!
December 5th, 2022 at 12:45 PM ^
It’s cool to see JV and Max in the same rotation again.
December 5th, 2022 at 1:23 PM ^
You may run like Mays, but you hit like shit.
December 5th, 2022 at 12:47 PM ^
So does JV go into the HOF as a Tiger or Astro?
December 5th, 2022 at 12:57 PM ^
....or Met?
December 5th, 2022 at 1:01 PM ^
I asked a group of friends that same question, and our consensus was Astro. I hope we are wrong, but the postseason success he experienced in Houston is hard to top.
December 5th, 2022 at 1:14 PM ^
Detroit: 12.75 seasons, 380 starts, 2500 IP, 183W, MVP, CYA, ROY
Houston: 3.25 seasons (plus 6 IP in 2020), 102 starts, 650 IP, 61W, 2CYA
Mets: 2-3? seasons, worse than any of the above
This is no contest. HOF will override his decision if he tries to say Houston. It's either Detroit or a blank cap.
December 5th, 2022 at 1:20 PM ^
Glad you didn't list the WHIP or ERA in those Tigers vs Astros comparisons. Might cause a person to cry. But the trimuverate of Perez/Cameron/Rogers might bring us back....to err...nevermind.
December 5th, 2022 at 1:25 PM ^
I was just trying to be fast. And I think quality speaks more than quantity in this instance because it's not like he was a mediocre-at-best player in Detroit who morphed into a perennial All-Star in Houston. He went from an elite pitcher on a slight decline back to an elite pitcher.
Actually, I gave him credit for 2020 in my initial post where he pitched a whopping 6.0 IP so it's even more one-sided than I made it look.
He spent less than 3.5 seasons in Houston. He's not an Astro.
December 5th, 2022 at 12:49 PM ^
Scherzer immediately enters transfer portal.
December 5th, 2022 at 12:50 PM ^
Rangers are going to be eating a lot of salary for the next five years. deGrom hasn't been an all-year starter for years, especially last year. You don't have to wonder why the Mets, with all that money, let him go. Verlander should be an upgrade that should upset Braves fans (like me).
December 5th, 2022 at 12:52 PM ^
The Mets are going to add Jack Morris to complete the ex-Tigers retirement home staff.
December 5th, 2022 at 12:55 PM ^
Anibal Sanchez somehow pitched in MLB in 2022? Even though he looked washed up 5+ years ago
December 5th, 2022 at 1:29 PM ^
Jeremy Bonderman too, as a set up man.
December 5th, 2022 at 12:57 PM ^
Is David Price still available for the Mets to sign? We could see a repeat of 2014.
December 5th, 2022 at 1:17 PM ^
He had said he was considering retiring but I don't think he made it official. Porcello officially retired today. Anibal Sanchez and Drew Smyly pitched in the MLB in 2022 and are free agents.
December 5th, 2022 at 12:59 PM ^
LGM!!! but.. i hope there's more in store. verlander aint enough
December 5th, 2022 at 1:32 PM ^
We're probably out on Rodon now, but if we bring Bassitt back, we're good. Even if no Bassitt, I'd be okay with Walker and taking a flyer on somebody like Cueto.
Biggest problem is CF. Nimmo is as good as gone, and Marte wouldn't hold up there for a full season. Maybe Haniger? Though I've heard we're sniffing around Benintendi too.
December 5th, 2022 at 1:40 PM ^
Mets have a lot of holes. Our DH is a disaster. We have 1 starting outfielder right now. Are we counting on Alvarez to be the DH? Catcher is a mess if so..
And, if we are counting on Verlander and Scherzer to stay healthy all year, that aint happening. Best bet is they miss minimal time and are healthy for a post-season run. I don't love this... I get we had to replace De Grom, but... I'm not sure this is going to end well. I hope I'm wrong.
This feels like the pre-ponzi mets who just bought shitty old players and never had any sense of plan. Again, hope i'm wrong.
Let the young talent come up, or trade for some legit stars in their prime.
I still don't know why we aren't after Trea Turner.
December 5th, 2022 at 2:45 PM ^
Because the Mets are trying to replicate the Dodgers model except that they are 3-5 years behind in the process. They will have to (and want to) pay Pete, McNeil and eventually Alvarez. They need to build up their own farm system so the plan is to pay a large annual average for short-termers now while they can groom their own players. Once they can bring up enough of their home grown players they'll then consider the Mookie Betts/Freddie Freeman type contracts but it doesn't make sense to do that right now
December 5th, 2022 at 1:06 PM ^
That's my take. The Mets are trying to recreate the Tigers starting rotation with Scherzer and Verlander as their aces after losing Jacob deGrom to the Rangers in a deal in which the Mets have paid the reward for Verlander's World Series and Cy Young season. The big right-hander who will turn 40 next year has said he would like to pitch until he's 45 becoming the Tom Brady methuselah of MLB.
Can't believe that deGrom wouldn't even take a call from the Mets before accepting a market deal paying only $37m over five years when he could've gotten what Sherzer and Verlander are getting, $43m per with a vesting option in year three.
DeGrom would've gotten more from the Mets if he'd been willing to negotiate or place a call to their GM or owner, Steve Cohen, the richest owner in baseball. Almost as if Cohen was playing deGrom. I guess you get what you pay for.
December 5th, 2022 at 1:08 PM ^
Funny thing is former Tiger Rick Porcello, who pitched for the Mets two years ago, announced his retirement today. Could have been quite the reunion.
December 5th, 2022 at 1:33 PM ^
DeGrom was just done with NYC. It wasn't really a baseball decision. He's a red state guy through and through.
December 5th, 2022 at 2:41 PM ^
NONSENSE
December 5th, 2022 at 1:07 PM ^
There are still 9-10 months before baseball is interesting, please give it some breathing room
December 5th, 2022 at 1:34 PM ^
Baseball is always interesting.
December 5th, 2022 at 2:23 PM ^
Talking about baseball now is like wearing white pants after Labor Day.
December 5th, 2022 at 1:19 PM ^
Is baseball still a pro sport in the US?
December 5th, 2022 at 1:34 PM ^
Bigger than soccer!
December 5th, 2022 at 1:52 PM ^
I hope the Rays sign someone who can hit. Their bats last year were on par with Iowa's offense.
December 5th, 2022 at 2:06 PM ^
$43M/year average salary for a pitcher who is on the mound every 5-6 days, missed 2020 and 2021, and is 39 years old?? And check out his post season ERA. At least deGrom is 34.
I know this won't be a well received take, because Verlander is a Michigander, but that's crazy, and another example of the desperate Mets reaching. They only scored 8 runs in 3 games in the playoffs, 7 of which came in one game. Maybe start with improving the offense?
December 5th, 2022 at 2:56 PM ^
It's not your money, why does it matter if he makes 43M or 43 tacos? There's not even a salary cap in this sport, so it's not like Verlander's "cap number" affects the overall payroll or ability for the team to do X Y or Z.
If Steve Cohen wants to give him his entire fortune and a night with his wife... what difference does it make?
Now, if you want to say that Verlander isn't a good pitcher, or won't add quality to the Mets, or won't help him win, or yeah, his era in World Series games... I guess you could say that about the 2022 Cy Young winner. But it seems like a tough argument to make.
Not meaning to sound churlish or preachy... but these conversations "work" more in sports with caps because the salary of one person has a direct relation to the rest of the team. It's less applicable here. But really I think that the contemporary sports conversation (read fans and media) have conflated a productive conversation about salary relationship to lookeeloo wallet-gazing. We'd all be better with less of the latter. And don't get me started with the fascination in the media (and some fans) with Jim Harbaugh's 2021 salary.
December 5th, 2022 at 5:33 PM ^
Well, then are you saying because it's not my money that I shouldn't have a say? Obviously, I don't control the team, but that's kind of a strange take. There is no salary cap, but there is a luxury tax. And the team usually sets a limit on what they want to spend.
Blowing $43M/year on a 39 yr old pitcher with a recent history of arm problems and a very bad postseason ERA career record doesn't strike me as a recipe for success. Especially considering the issues they are having with a DH (Daniel Vosbach?) They could have gone after Trea Turner for 2B (who plays every day) and still have another $16M left for a Starter #2 for the same price. Considering their issues with offense in the wild card series, seems like a better strategy.
But hey, I'm not their GM.
December 6th, 2022 at 9:30 AM ^
Nope, if you look up there I didn't say that at all. I said that in a sport like baseball, where there is no cap, why does it matter what Justin Verlander makes to you? I point blank said that if you want to make an argument against his ability, or that he won't make the Mets better, or isn't going to bring value to their bullpen, go right ahead... but I think we both know that's a pretty big leap to make seeing as how he just won the Cy Young award.
What you're doing is attempting to make a value argument based on what you perceive is to be too much money. So, again, I ask why does it matter to you how much money he makes? Steve Cohen has openly said he's willing to put as much into this team as he can to make it a winner. He's clearly proving that. They still can go after Trea Turner if they want. Because Verlander's salary isn't directly tied to their ability to do anything else, like it would be in a salary capped sport. They're not budgeted out at 43m. They don't have to use that for an everyday 2B and a second starter, they can just go buy those two too, if they want.
If JV signed for the Mets for 12m a season you'd be great with it? For the purpose of this example lets say yes. It still, based on Cohen's words and the way that baseball is setup, has nothing to do with their ability to sign Trea Turner or anyone else. This is the "why does it matter to you" point I'm making.
Have an opinion. Awesome. Like JV. Don't like JV. That's all cool. How much JV earns is how much someone is willing to pay him. That's what his value is. And if Steve Cohen wants to pay him 43m and he's willing to continue to invest in his team, then it shouldn't have any significance to you. If it does bother you, maybe ask yourself why.
December 5th, 2022 at 2:28 PM ^
Is Justin Verlander getting $43 million a year? ...I should have played baseball.... ...and had better genetics.