Illinois insists the refs cost them the game, despite numerous favorable calls
Obviously there are Bret Bielema's comments. But there's also this Illinois fan who claims that Michigan and OSU are "brands" that Big Ten refs must protect. And good lord, the salty Illini fans on Twitter. This despite numerous favorable calls for Illinois including:
- A blatant offsides on M's 4th down which wasn't called, leading to a JJ thinking* he could take an endzone shot, incomplete, and turnover on downs
- Multiple no-call holds on Chase Brown runs, including the TD where they got to 17
- At least one incredibly favorable Chase Brown spot on 4th down which they didn't even bother to review
- At least a couple no-call pass interference plays on Devin Witherspoon (although I will grant he played excellently for Illinois)
- Giving Illinois 1 second back on the clock at the end of the game despite the game clock clearly hitting zero on the kick return, which even the broadcast showed
I'm sure you can remember others. I was watching this and thinking that the refs were doing everything possible to give Illinois a puncher's chance at certain points. But yeah, instead, let's go ahead and say that the only reason they lost is because the refs actually wanted M to win the whole time.
*Even the Illinois defender who committed the infraction thought this! He just stood up against Zak Zinter for the rest of the down. One of the worst no-calls I have ever seen.
November 20th, 2022 at 10:27 AM ^
So they sound like a college fanbase upset they lost a game and blame the refs. Never heard of that before, especially on here.
November 20th, 2022 at 10:40 AM ^
Hey! I take offense at this comment. I’ve only done that here when they lose!
November 20th, 2022 at 10:43 AM ^
Hey, I resemble that remark!
November 20th, 2022 at 11:34 AM ^
Yeah but the major difference is that they are wrong. We are right. Every time.
November 20th, 2022 at 2:33 PM ^
I haven’t done that all season! I’m a changed man!
November 20th, 2022 at 10:28 AM ^
Fuck OSU.
November 20th, 2022 at 10:29 AM ^
You should look at the game thread after Blake got hurt and before Moody ascended to god status. Equivalent amount of whining.
No one is immune to doubting this team but complaining about a loss is perfectly warranted, so I give them a pass
Oh yeah, Fuck Ohio and Mr Third Base
November 20th, 2022 at 10:37 AM ^
Why would you tell someone to look at an Mgoblog game thread unless the person you are referring is social psychologist studying how groups manifest and express anxiety?
November 20th, 2022 at 12:27 PM ^
Why would you tell someone to look at an Mgoblog game thread unless the person you are referring is social psychologist studying how groups OF MISERABLE, WHINING MANBABIES manifest and express anxiety?
fify.
November 20th, 2022 at 6:01 PM ^
You are right but I’m trying to be less negative these days
November 20th, 2022 at 10:30 AM ^
It's Sunday morning, Michigan just won a trap game to go 11-0, Moody nailed a last-second game-winner in his last game at the Big House. . .
. . . and you have nothing better to do than go online to complain about complainers?
November 20th, 2022 at 10:51 AM ^
... and with complaints that sound as homer-ish.
Go Blue. Beat the Buckeyes.
November 20th, 2022 at 12:01 PM ^
We're to the point where we're complaining about complainers complaining about complainers.
November 20th, 2022 at 12:23 PM ^
I've decided I have a problem with your complaint, just to go full circle.
November 20th, 2022 at 10:31 AM ^
The one second at the end was legit. Clock stops to move the chains, giving them plenty of time to call a time out.
November 20th, 2022 at 10:48 AM ^
Also to OP, he was not 'blatantly offside.' The Illinois player certainly jumped up early, but never made it to the neutral zone.
If you want to be upset about missed calls, there were several additional PIs where Witherspoon had his off-arm grabbing/draped around the M receiver while the ball was still in the air.
The hold at the end of the half against Illinois was weak, as was ours earlier in the half. Looked like Colson was blatantly tackled to the ground on the first Illini TD.
This play likely doesn't change anything, but was very shocked to see the catch after review 'stands as called' prior to FG. Looked pretty clear to me the ball hit the ground and helped the catch. Situation reversed, I would be furious, though college reviews are notoriously unreliable. It's always driven me crazy under Harbuagh how slow we are to call a play after a questionable call goes in our favor to avoid review (watch OSU/Bama/Georgia for how to quickly get up to the LOS to get a play called to avoid review).
The last second play was called correctly. Illinois got a first down, clock rightly stopped with 1 second.
In summary, bad calls happen every game. Bert is a whiner. OP's take is horribly non-objective. Harbaugh needs to be WAY better about getting off a quick snap to avoid a review during any close call in our favor. We occasionally get some calls that favor the good guys. Hope we get more than OSU next week.
November 20th, 2022 at 10:52 AM ^
Interesting. The offisdes did look pretty blatant in the stadium.
November 20th, 2022 at 11:20 AM ^
It looked pretty blatant on TV as well. I think it looked pretty blatant to every eyeball watching that game except for the one guy responsible for throwing that flag.
November 20th, 2022 at 11:46 AM ^
I haven't seen the play again and we were in the north end stands. However, there was a loud cheer that went up at the start of the play - literally thousands were pretty sure ILL was offsides.
November 20th, 2022 at 3:32 PM ^
i finally saw a replay on the big ten network final drive show. they drew a line for the neutral zone. the IL DL's foot was clearly in the neutral zone, but not by much. maybe half of his foot.
November 20th, 2022 at 11:46 AM ^
The neutral zone is 6 inches beyond the football. The Illini defender’s foot is almost touching the football, 0-1 inch away. However, it is quite possible that Olu moved the ball slightly forward when he gripped it. Centers do that all the time. The no-call there is not a big deal to me.
The egregious replay review that changed Corum’s being down to a fumble was a clear sign to me that the powers that be wanted this game to stay close for television. That was clear WWE shit. My first question for any referee would be, can you define “indisputable?” I thought it was common knowledge that the ground can’t cause a fumble. Anyone with half a brain and functional eyes watching that play can see that it is very likely that the ground caused the fumble. To say INDISPUTABLY that it didn’t is asinine.
November 20th, 2022 at 12:08 PM ^
Additionally, the ref blew the play dead before Illinois picked up the ball. I heard it live and saw the refs blowing the whistle on replay as well.
November 20th, 2022 at 12:16 PM ^
I was wondering about that. Everyone stops after the whistle except for the one Illinois player who casually picks the ball up (and then stops). Even if it was a fumble, why was his recovery valid when it came after the whistle?
November 20th, 2022 at 12:21 PM ^
I think Corum fumbled. On the replay, the ball seems to be coming out before he lands. But it should have remained Michigan ball, because the officials blew the play dead at the time. A referee's whistle can't be overturned. I don't understand why Illinois was credited with a recovery when it happened after the play stopped.
November 20th, 2022 at 1:17 PM ^
"The neutral zone is 6 inches beyond the football"
The neutral zone is the space between the two scrimmage lines extended to the sidelines. Its width is equal to the length of the ball (Rule 2-21-2).
Here are some images of the 'egregious offside'.
1) Pre-snap: Foot touching the unofficial LOS
2a and b) Immediately post-snap, and the farthest towards Michigan's end of the field the Illinois player advances
3) Post-sanp (ball between Olu and JJ)
Live, I also thought it was obvious, but the replay during the game immediately after showed, at best, that it was extremely close. The camera is not directly down the line so perspective is altered (a la 2016 OSU), but I have no problem with the way this was called.
November 20th, 2022 at 1:47 PM ^
To me the fact that it’s “close” makes it a bad no call. Because yeah, he’s not offside by much, but it was most definitely offsides. And refs aren’t usually conservative about calling offsides in those situations.
November 20th, 2022 at 12:47 PM ^
People assume because he moved he was offsides and that’s not the case. It was not an egregious no call upon replay
November 20th, 2022 at 1:02 PM ^
And the OP.
The Final Drive on the BTN had a great video and it was clear. Definitive - a flag should have been thrown.
November 20th, 2022 at 11:06 AM ^
There were bad calls both ways. I thought they pretty much evened out. As a fan you always remember and complain about the ones that don’t go your way. It’s ridiculous for Illinois to say the refs cost them the game when they had their fare share of bad calls go their way. Glad we found a way to win now let’s move on to The Game
November 20th, 2022 at 11:24 AM ^
I thought the refs were not a factor in this game. We had the big 3rd down completion to Wilson called back on a shit holding call on Zinter. Witherspoon was grabby all day and finally got called for one on that last drive.
We have been on the wrong side of the calls for many years. This year it seems like we may be slightly on the other side. But yesterday, there was nothing egregious one way or the other.
Maybe if you could have got a couple more first downs in the 4th quarter Bert, you would have nothing to bitch about!
November 20th, 2022 at 11:11 AM ^
It’s odd that you say you’d have been furious if the roles had been reversed. I was praying they’d reverse it — Michigan would have gotten ~10 seconds back and the clock wouldn’t have started until the snap. The five extra yards weren’t worth the time on the clock.
November 20th, 2022 at 3:37 PM ^
i was saying this exact thing at the game
November 20th, 2022 at 11:28 AM ^
The offsides was clearly in the neutral zone and a missed call, it was shown on a ton of scoreboard shows and your the first person I seen say it was not offsides.
November 20th, 2022 at 12:01 PM ^
This is simply wrong. Freeze-frame the video and dude's foot is over the LOS at the snap. If you want to quibble about that the graphic of the LOS isn't exactly accurate fine, but then he was still in the neutral zone at the snap.
November 20th, 2022 at 11:51 AM ^
Also, the clock did not clearly run out on the final kickoff return. There was no return, as Moody kicked it through the end zone for a touchback.
November 20th, 2022 at 12:29 PM ^
agreed. he went down, i looked up at the scoreboard and it said 0:01. just because it wasn't what you wanted doesn't make it incorrect.
November 20th, 2022 at 3:39 PM ^
...and further, who gives a shit about one second 60 yards away into the wind?
November 20th, 2022 at 3:40 PM ^
that one second is about as important as that extra 4 yards on the pass that should have been overturned. moody's kick was dead center and likely good from 60 yards.
November 20th, 2022 at 3:14 PM ^
that's fine, gave us a chance to beat them twice.
November 20th, 2022 at 10:34 AM ^
The Witherspoon PI no calls were probably the most egregious. He got away with two pass breakups where he hit the Michigan receiver early. And I didn't need slow motion to see that he got there early. It was obvious in real time.
We got our share of unfavorable calls as well. Moving on.
November 20th, 2022 at 11:11 AM ^
Not to mention at least one helmet hit leading with his head.
November 20th, 2022 at 10:34 AM ^
A fanbase complaining about refs after a close loss in which they were arguably the better team? Picking out bad calls against them but ignoring other calls that went their way. That’s new, I’m sure Michigan fans have never done something.
Also on balance I would say Illinois got it worse. Michigan had a 37% win expectancy. We got lucky yesterday
November 20th, 2022 at 10:37 AM ^
We got lucky? Blake Corum got his knee hit so hard he dropped the football and missed effectively the rest of the game. That does not seem particularly lucky.
November 20th, 2022 at 10:52 AM ^
I think "lucky" meant lucky to win.
November 20th, 2022 at 10:53 AM ^
Yes, I understand that. I just disagree. I think we were unlucky and persevered through that.
November 20th, 2022 at 11:27 AM ^
How do they come up with that win expectancy? We outgained them by 50 yards (376-326) and had a huge edge in time of possession (35:03-24:57). (Yeah, TOP can be overrated, but when you have the ball 10 minutes longer than the other team, that’s generally a good sign.) We also converted 3-4 fourth downs to their 0-2. How does that add up to a 37% chance of winning?
Is it all because of the one turnover?
November 20th, 2022 at 11:38 AM ^
It’s based on factors that predict winning. Total yards isn’t the focus, it’s yards per play, number of explosive plays and a couple of other factors. Basically historically the team that wins those factors generally wins. It’s obviously not perfect but it gives a sense of how the teams played. Illinois played a better down to down game than Michigan did. The fact that we needed to convert two fourth downs to win the game is a bad thing, not a sign we played better
November 20th, 2022 at 11:59 AM ^
Each team averaged 5.1 yards per play. Michigan had five plays of 20+ yards to Illinois's one.
So I guess it's all based on that we went for it twice on 4th down in the fourth quarter? We didn't need to convert the first of those two; we were likely to get the ball back (and did).
Only the last one was truly necessary to win the game. If postgame win probability is based on the overall game performance, that one play alone shouldn't have brought it down to 37%.
(Unless there is a way to factor in injuries. Michigan in a close game without either Corum or Edwards isn't in a great place, granted.)
November 20th, 2022 at 12:33 PM ^
The fact that we needed to convert two fourth downs to win the game is a bad thing, not a sign we played better.
gibberish.
November 20th, 2022 at 3:48 PM ^
does bell's 40 yd punt return count as an explosive play? we then had at least 3 plays over 30 yds. what did IL have, one??