OT: Talking Unsolved Legends / Events Wednesday: A2 Vet Hospital Murders
Happy Hump Day. Next week will be the last week for this. Let’s talk about the A2 Vet Hospital Murders.
10 people were poisoned through their IVs and died in 1975. Two Filipino nurses were charged, but the case was dropped.
What do you know about this? Who was responsible? I think the two nurses were used as scapegoats for a crazy persin in power.
August 14th, 2019 at 6:53 AM ^
I have never even heard of this. I go to that hospital all the time but it did happen almost ten years before I was born and I imagine people don't like talking about this sort of thing. I feel like something like this would be harder to pull of nowadays but idk.
August 14th, 2019 at 7:12 AM ^
Same.
August 14th, 2019 at 6:59 AM ^
Honest mistake. Sometimes I accidentally leave bleach next to IVs and it can get confusing which chemical to put in.
August 14th, 2019 at 12:33 PM ^
You’re not the only one.
I really wish we would just let Darwin’s theory go to work sometimes.
August 14th, 2019 at 7:06 AM ^
For a moment, I thought the OP was talking about a veterinarian... ?♂️
August 14th, 2019 at 7:42 AM ^
You watch Falling Down lately?
August 14th, 2019 at 7:59 AM ^
Me too, which was double-weird because my wife owns a vet hospital in AA
August 14th, 2019 at 10:58 AM ^
Yes, I think OP should've used the term "VA Hospital" hah
August 14th, 2019 at 7:18 AM ^
AA Observer piece from 2016:
https://annarborobserver.com/articles/va_murders_revisited.html
Great off-season post, OP.
August 14th, 2019 at 7:58 AM ^
Colonel Mustard in The Billiard Room with a Candlestick.
August 14th, 2019 at 8:21 AM ^
Never heard of this, either... Since the case was dropped, I'll just say it - the two Filipino nurses were (probably) implicated because they were Filipino and no other leads were handy. Had to appease the masses, you know...
Other than that, I have nothing to add here. But I will say that nurses have been behind many mass murders, committed one at a time, in hospitals throughout the country. I have no doubt it was a nurse administering the poison. And with the state of medical care back in the 70's, there is no way to trace who gave what. Today, everything is barcoded, ID'd, and tracked in a DB. Not saying you can't get around it, but that would take some serious planning...
August 14th, 2019 at 9:15 AM ^
Would you expand on that nurses have been behind many mass murders comment? Intriguing and also scary.
August 14th, 2019 at 9:29 AM ^
Here's a list from Ranker.com - hesitate to go there, though! It's one of those click-bait things that make you visit a new page for every list item. Otherwise, just google 'murdering nurses', or something like that. You won't have any problem getting your worry on about nurses...
August 14th, 2019 at 8:33 AM ^
I think the jury got it right. Motive remains a mystery.
August 14th, 2019 at 8:54 AM ^
I vaguely remember this case (I was a sophomore in High School at the time) but didnt remember it was never solved.
I have a question for the board to ponder (unrelated to this topic though). Are today's mass killers just re-directed serial killers of the past? With technology and the advances in forensic science today it seems like the days of the "Ted Bundy-ish" serial killers have largely disapeared so I wonder if that thing inside people making them want to commit these atrocities has simply moved them to mass shootings which they sadly still can do.
August 14th, 2019 at 9:01 AM ^
There does seem to be a general reduction in serial killing in the US. See e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/15/are-american-serial-killers-a-dying-breed
But I would think mass killing is a different phenomenon with different causes. Recent mass killers seem to aim to be as dramatic as possible, and they don't hide their identities. Serial killers tried to avoid detection so they could continue their crimes. Serial killers also seemed to have much more of a sexual element to their crimes. So I wonder if the decline in serial killing is related to something like better detection of child sexual abuse. And I suspect the increase in mass killing is related to things like increased access to guns, decreased social cohesion, and the effects of living on social media.
August 14th, 2019 at 9:22 AM ^
It's a good question. In general, violent crime is way down in the US over the last quarter century, even accounting for the slight increase in mass shootings (arguably due to contagion). Mass shootings and killings may be catching some of the overflow from would-be serial killers. That would account for their uptick in the face of a categorical downward trend. Interesting idea.
August 14th, 2019 at 9:34 AM ^
Not sure I'd agree that serial killers are a dying breed. But I do think most of them now get caught pretty early on - before the 'serial' part can take hold. The advances in science (DNA, fingerprint databases, shared information, etc) have made investigating crime far more efficient than it ever has been. I suspect more murderers get caught before they realize how much the taste appeals to them.
August 14th, 2019 at 9:05 AM ^
I had never heard of this case. Interesting.
I'm not sure the case was dropped. The link says the original jury convicted on three poisoning counts, but not on murder, and then later a judge set aside the poisoning convictions because of prejudicial presentation by the prosecution in the original trial. And then the prosecution decided not to pursue the case further. But I'm not a lawyer - maybe that is called dropping the case?
Anyway, interesting that the brother of Ferdinand Marcos was involved. Makes me wonder about why the three original convictions were set aside by the judge. Perhaps a payment was involved?
August 14th, 2019 at 9:14 AM ^
This got national headlines back in 1975/76. Not to get political, but there was always a racial aspect to the way this was covered: in no newspaper, radio or TV story were the 2 women charged referred to as just "nurses"--they were always "Filipino nurses."
I don't think I should say more than this, but I know a couple of people who were nurses at the hospital at that time. It seems the opinion of the nurses there was pretty unanimous about who they think was doing it, and it wasn't the 2 women who were charged.
August 14th, 2019 at 9:36 AM ^
Oh, come on! That's a terrible tease. You can't suggest that there's an alternative, popular suspect and not even suggest who it is! Obviously, I'm not looking for you to name names, but give us a hint. Was it another nurse? A doctor? A hitman trying to hide his targeted assassination? Was this part of the cleanup after Watergate? Come on, you gotta give us something.
August 14th, 2019 at 9:47 AM ^
A doctor.
August 15th, 2019 at 12:44 PM ^
Asked my aunt about this case since she retired from nursing just a couple years ago although from an Oakland county hospital, never worked at VA. She recalls the case very well, I’m sure it was a huge topic of discussion amongst the Filipino community. She remembers that one of the nurses went back home to the Philippines, the other went on to work at the same hospital as my aunt and mom. I had crossed paths with her when I started working there in 2001.
August 14th, 2019 at 11:04 AM ^
Shocked this week's topic wasn't Epstein. We witnessed the birth of a new unsolved mystery last week. And like the Kennedy assassination, I don't think it will ever be solved or settled. In fact, I wouldn't even be surprised if he's actually alive and bribed his way out and escaped to one of his islands.
August 14th, 2019 at 11:36 AM ^
He hung himself while the guards slept, after trying to hang himself a few weeks ago. No conspiracy to see here...
August 14th, 2019 at 2:18 PM ^
Is this the Bermuda Triangle Thread?
August 14th, 2019 at 11:40 AM ^
Eli - a suggestion for next week: revisit Amelia Earhart because of new news - Dr. Robert Ballard is now involved and looking for her/her plane. This story explains why. This has been one of the worlds great, enduring mysteries, and now it has fresh legs.
If it's there, Dr Ballard is one of the few people that can find it. He's got a long list of impressive finds on his resume as an explorer...
August 14th, 2019 at 12:30 PM ^
I got something better in mind. Down the road I will try.
August 14th, 2019 at 12:31 PM ^
Maybe I’m overly cautious, but I wouldn’t take my dog or cat to a vet hospital where humans were dying.
August 14th, 2019 at 5:16 PM ^
As a nurse I can tell you that Pavulon is not usually readily available on a unit. My theory is someone stole some from the operating room, substituted the liquid in a more commonly used medication vial, then sat back and watched the fireworks. Wouldn't even have to be in the hospital when it happened. Access to drugs has certainly been tightened up since then.
August 15th, 2019 at 12:55 PM ^
Another fascinating unsolved case is the connection to Jeffrey Dahmer with the Adam Walsh case. An eyewitness saw Dahmer at the mall the day Walsh went missing from that Florida Sears. This witness had an uncomfortable run in with who he now knows to be Dahmer at Radio Shack inside the same mall moments before the kidnapping of Adam. I’ve heard an interview with this witness and he seems quite believable.
Dahmer had chaptered out of the Army from Germany prior to this. Unable to face his father in Ohio he chose to reside in Florida. In the time there, several kids had eerie encounters with Dahmer. JD had claimed to have found a dead body outside his place of work, a sandwich shop not far from the mall. It’s theorized he had probably killed that man rather than just found him. It was a homeless person and the police never looked much into it.
There were several problems with the Hollywood FL PD as claimed by this ‘frustrated witness’. In another case in Broward county on another true crime podcast I’ve heard of similar issues with the police there in that time period - chasing down the wrong suspects, coerced admissions, racist behavior dismissing other witnesses.