Too Early Hypothetical Questions.....

Submitted by New Carr on October 10th, 2010 at 1:52 PM

I hate to do this...but I have some way too early questions for the board.  I want to preface this by saying I support RR and want him to remain here, I love the offense, and fully expect the defense to improve.  However, given the anti-RR sentiment that persists, and the panic that ensues after one loss (albeit it, was to annoying Sparty for 3rd year in a row, 0-3 vs. Sparty is brutal for RR), there is a chance the following come to pass.  So I ask....

1)  If Denard wins the heisman going for ridiculous #s like 2K passing, 2K rushing .....but Michigan loses to OSU and finishes around 7-5 or 8-4  (making RR 0-6 agains OSU / MSU) will RR get canned?....When is the last time a coach was fired with a heisman winner on his team?

2)  If we get a new coach, likely Harbaugh at this point....what is the probability we stick with the spread and Denard is the qb next year?  Gardner is probably going to be the best passer of the the 3 qbs we have right now (yes, he has a better arm than Tate, and is bigger), and would probably start in that offense.  Gardner is very similar to Auburn's Cam Newton.   Denard is too explosive to keep off the field and would probably be a tailback /WR hybrid ala Reggie Bush.  So if we go back to more of a pro-style look after this year, and Denard is no longer the QB....(but he wins the heisman this year), how strange would that be?  Has a returning heisman player ever switched positions going into the following year?



October 10th, 2010 at 1:58 PM ^

more than too hypothetical questions in your post...none of which I feel like expending the mental energy to think about.


October 10th, 2010 at 1:59 PM ^

Too early.

I do believe that Rodriguez keeps his job with a 7-5 record, regardless of whether Denard wins the Heisman.

Speculating what Jim Harbaugh would do is just plain ridiculous.

Speculating that Denard could win the Heisman and then be moved to running back after a coaching change is beyond ridiculous.


October 10th, 2010 at 3:19 PM ^

Maybe along with a 100 point barrier there should be a time barrier.  By this I mean you have to be a member of the board for a determined amount of time before you can create content.  That why hopefully people will be familiar enough with the MGoBoard and realize that we have covered these comments hundreds of times already in the last couple of months.  


October 10th, 2010 at 8:12 PM ^

I think a better solution would to have a mandatory 'Posting FAQ' window/page that appears for users under a certain time-length in membership or point level for every time the user wishes to begin a discussion (not for replies).  Perhaps it requires the user to scroll the window to the very end, then click a box to continue posting.  It could serve as a nice reminder of rules/standards, and a slight annoyance to people that could minimize knee-jerk response posts.


Adding further constraints to posting tends to reduce interaction with the board.  I don't post often here, but I have been reading for quite a long time.  More restraints on posting would discourage me and other board users like me.


October 10th, 2010 at 2:02 PM ^

i have been a Michigan fan for my entire life, but the infighting and cronyism infecting this program before and after Rich's hire, makes me question whether I want to be associated with this fan base. We sound like a bunch of domers during the Bob Davie years. 


October 10th, 2010 at 2:19 PM ^

I agree all this BS about whether RR is a Michigan man or not is incredible. I grew up in Ohio and transferred here from Colorado am I a Michigan man? More than our teams sucking, this has been what sucks the most during my time at this school. It's not fun, plain and simple. Hey, let's support the team instead of pissing and moaning over the coach's accent.


October 10th, 2010 at 2:04 PM ^

(Please forgive me for offering this snarky response, but my beloved team just lost and I'm still a little aggitated).

I have a hypothetical question for you:

What if you never hit enter after you typed this gem?

myantoniobass …

October 10th, 2010 at 2:09 PM ^

1. If Denard wins Heisman for stats you stated, don't worry our record will be much better than 7-5.

2. If Rich Rod legally changes his name to "Harbaugh", the name change won't bring a change in scheme.  If for some strange reason RR is fired (epic meltdown, natural disaster etc.),  I am sure his/her scheme will be different than Rod's.  Not that I'm grumpy cause we just lost to lil brother again, but do you really think we can predict who our starter would be if a new coach came in?

3. Glad you are fan, sorry I am grumpy for reasons stated in number 2 above.

New Carr

October 10th, 2010 at 2:12 PM ^

I hate to break it to you Maize an Blue Man Group,....but this is a realistic question given the "hot seat" RR has been on since the day he arrived.  I like RR, and I support him and the program and in no way am I pushing for a coaching change.  However, I am realistic and acknowledge how many RR detractors there are out there, and the possibility of pressure on the AD forcing him out, especially with the BS NCAA violation outcome still up in the air.  No need to be a prick because you don't want to think about these possibilities.  Unfortunately, 1 loss fans the flames of the naysayers...and to be fair 0-3 vs Sparty, regardless of the circumstances, gives the mutiny plenty of ammo. 


And Wolverine318....I would not use the Bob Davie analogy, as he sucked, and I am hopeful RR will be much more successful than him.  In actuality the Domer Douche fans were right to call for Davie's head, he should have been canned earlier.


October 10th, 2010 at 2:19 PM ^

it is a perfect valid analogy. Those domers were infighting at the time whether to hire Holtz's D coord Davie or hire outside. Cronyism was allowed to remain and look where that took them. I see the same cronyism at Michigan these days. Although, we have Dave Brandon who isn't afraid of pissing off some donors. This program needs to run like a business (similar to Alabama, Oregon, Florida, Ohio State) if we are going to come back to power. 


October 10th, 2010 at 4:13 PM ^

Cronyism sucks, is poison for an organization, and should be stopped (to the extent that it exists, which I think is overblown).

But cronyism or not, like the Domers or not, our defense has been a sieve (not a goalie) for the last 3 (really 4) years. 

At this point I don't care if we have a Michigan Man or or Man from Mars, we need a frakkin' defense. "How do we get there from where we are?" is the only valid question, and asking it out loud does not a bandwagon, crony-ist fan make.


October 10th, 2010 at 2:14 PM ^

I think Brandon is level headed and realizes that at this point, firing RichRod would be completely counterproductive, regardless of how bad the results are on the field and what the media thinks.  Barring completely unforseen circumstances, he will be fine at 8-4 or 7-5.  6-6 would raise A LOT of eyebrows, and that's the point he enters the danger zone.  Needless to say, all bets are off if we finish 5-7.

Denard will almost certainly start regardless of who the coach is.  He's simply too good.


October 10th, 2010 at 2:15 PM ^

Reaction #1: STOP.

Reaction #2: Like any emotional fan, I've mulled over who to replace RR with. We all know about Harbaugh, but man how about Kirby Smart at Bama. At least our defense will be sweet.

Reaction #3: No no stop thinking like that we'll be fine. Right? Right?!


October 10th, 2010 at 2:25 PM ^

Brandon is smart enough to not fire RR if we finish 7-5 or better.  Can you imagine what that Alabama game in 2012 would look like if our team was rebuilding AGAIN?  Sure it's about 2 years away, and Alabama could be bad by then, but the last thing we need is to fire RR and have all sorts of attrition and weird hybrid guys on both sides of the ball with no true position (assuming there is a real change in scheme with a new coach).  

Please stop asking these questions until they really become questions, like after the regular season is over.  Please.

Mitch Cumstein

October 10th, 2010 at 2:26 PM ^

I honestly don't think Denard winning the Heisman has anything to do with RR or his fate as a Michigan coach.  The reason you don't see Heisman winner's coaches getting canned is b/c usually the Heisman goes to a player on a team with a very good record.


October 10th, 2010 at 2:38 PM ^

To say that Denard winning the Heisman (potentially) has nothing to do with RR nor his coaching staff is complete balderdash. Every other team recruiting him offered him as a WR, but RR knew better. And Rod Smith has turned an electric runner with a terrible arm into a QB on pace to throw for 2400 yards this season. 

Mitch Cumstein

October 10th, 2010 at 2:59 PM ^

To clarify my previous post, I didn't mean that it has nothing to do with RR, meant it has nothing to do with whether or not RR keeps his job.  I meant that Brandon won't base his decision on individual awards for players, thats where I was going with that.

I agree completely that RR is partially responsible for Denard putting up huge numbers


October 10th, 2010 at 2:29 PM ^

Why does it always seem like the perfect thing to do is fire the coach?  Yeah, that will work well.  Fire the coach, and the next guy takes 3-4 years to make things work, and the whole time the Spartans just keep rolling. 

Fire the coach, and before you know it, kids in high school won't even remember when Michigan was a winner.  Don't think it can happen?  Wait until basketball season.


October 10th, 2010 at 3:40 PM ^

I honestly don't see the logic in the argument that a program should keep a coach simply because it does not want to go through another period of rebuilding.  You keep a coach because you believe he is the person who can lead your program in the right direction. 

Consider the following analogy: If your building a house, and you realize the foundation is cracked, do you keep building simply because you don't want to start over? 

Whether your for or against RR should depend on your belief in his ability to lead the program for the long run, not because you are afraid of another transition period.


October 10th, 2010 at 3:40 PM ^

I honestly don't see the logic in the argument that a program should keep a coach simply because it does not want to go through another period of rebuilding.  You keep a coach because you believe he is the person who can lead your program in the right direction. 

Consider the following analogy: If your building a house, and you realize the foundation is cracked, do you keep building simply because you don't want to start over? 

Whether your for or against RR should depend on your belief in his ability to lead the program for the long run, not because you are afraid of another transition period.


October 10th, 2010 at 3:28 PM ^

There are so many assumptions in your questions that nobody can answer it.  What do you hope to get from this?

We're 5-1.  You'd think we're 1-5 the way people are reacting.  Yes losing to State sucks.  Let's take it week by week.  We all thought Iowa was a guaranteed loss last year too and we came pretty close on the road at night.  D Rob is a smart kid, he learns from his mistakes and will come out better next week.  This will fire up the team for what they know is a big game.

Chill.  Just chill.  


October 10th, 2010 at 4:10 PM ^

And I know the Blog has the feeling that any criticism of the game yesterday means an automatic reversion to FIRE RICH ROD (because it's can't be possible to say we may not have done a good job yesterday without automatically assuming it means fire the coach), but really, the good and the bad are the same. We shouldn't be talking contract extension for going 5-0 vs. nobody, and we shouldn't be talking next coach for losing one (or two, etc) games. 

I think it's fair to critique the game, plus and minus, but really, it's been the same before the first game - he's going to get the whole season, he should get the whole season, and when it's all done, we can judge from there.  Maybe it goes really badly, and we're looking. Maybe it goes really well, and those thoughts seem silly.  Or somewhere in-between, and there's a lot of debate.  But it's not changing till after OSU weekend...and hopefully (and likely) not till January.


October 10th, 2010 at 4:51 PM ^

I agree with the sense that a certain contingent of the blog does respond reflexively whenever RR's tenure comes up, and I think part of the reason is that people are uncomfortable blaming college kids for a bad game.  This isn't the NFL where you can yell at millionares for not tackling properly; these are teenagers and early 20-somethings who played poorly in stretches, and personally I have a hard time calling any of those guys out except if it was just egregious. 

So that leaves the coaching staff, and really tht means GERG and RR.  With all the negative press that has surrounded this team, people just wanted yesterday to be a win so that RR's would be off the "hot seat" (and the inevitable transition it would entail if he was let go).  Instead, it's another week of "RR can't win the Big 10" and "will this be another collapse like last year", and at this point it just grates on you as a fan.  I agree that RR needs this year (and barring an epic collapse, at least 1 more season) to really show what he is able to do.  I just know personally that every post complaining about the playcalling/coaching/execution/readiness sounds like a veiled call for RR's removal, even if it wasn't the intent.


October 10th, 2010 at 4:51 PM ^

2008      3-9                        no bowl                         no rivalry victories

2009      5-7                        no bowl                         1 rivalry victory

2010      7-5 or better          bowl                              at least one rivalry victory


     We've come a long way since nick sheridan was playing qb.  I wish the progress was quicker but there is no reason to jump ship right now.  RR didn't forget how to coach when he came here.  We just beat Alabama for a prize recruit at a position we need.  Ohio high school football is supposed to be loaded for 2012 and tOSU won't have many schollies to offer that year.  It's tough dealing with the couch burners but I believe our day will come (and without Harbaugh).

Phil Davison

October 10th, 2010 at 8:08 PM ^

I agree, between attrition, Lloyd's players not fitting the RR system, and general lack of depth regardless it isn't surprising for RR to have the record he has in his 3 years at Michigan. We will make it to a bowl this year, I can't tell you which one, and that is an improvement. RR will be back and the with some experience and progress on both sides of the ball we only will get better.


October 10th, 2010 at 8:16 PM ^

7 and 5 and he should be safe.  I will be shocked if Michigan can't get there, but you never know.  We need to keep building the defense and I am excited about Denard and Dee Hart in the backfield next year.  We need to beat Ilinois and Purdue.  I think we have a very good shot at PSU and possibly even Wisconsin. 

Denard needs to be on top of his game the rest of the way.  His throws really hurt us.  I love watching him though and expect him to learn from this.  I do hope he starts to tie his shoes though...he slipped the play he lost his shoe and it cost us some yards.

Mitch Cumstein

October 10th, 2010 at 8:41 PM ^

I think 6-6 is the minimum at this point.  In no way can I see us losing to Purdue, if we do, I will start to agree with all the haters.  I think the other games we have between a 10 and 75% chance of winning, so I expect to win at least 1 or two more of those.

Louie C

October 10th, 2010 at 8:43 PM ^

First off, why would you or anyone else assume that Harbaugh would be the coach? Yes he's a "Michigan Man" ( that meme makes me want to hurl), someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't he be just as much if not a more polarizing  figure as RR? What he said about Bo has rankled many, and I'm sure many of them are people that either played for, coached under, or where friends and colleagues with him. He also seems to be somewhat of a loose cannon too. If you think there is a divide now, imagine how things would be if he were called up. I think it is much too soon to be talking up successors. There's still six more games to be played which I think are winnable. Whose to say that this isn't the moment that draws this team closer together, and they come out with a fire that would propel them through the rest of the season? I am not naive, but I do think all of this doom and gloom, second guessing, and infighting is just ridiculous, and embarrasing. I hear so many douchebag "fans" saying  what Bo would do, or even worse that his spinning in his grave. And you know what, he probably is. The way some of us are acting is sad. The loss sucks. I know. But I could care less about Sparty and their lame assed fans right now. I hurt for these kids. They have to hear about how they were demoralized on their turf, and about how bad they suck; even from some of their own fans. I hurt for RR. He cares about these kids, the school, and he seems like he is a very good guy, and it sucks to see him go through this. I really want to see him succeed here so we look back on these times and fully appreciate the good times that I'm sure he will bring.