Threet Transfer, Final Transition
Steven Threet transferring is the final transition. The final move from the Carr to Rodriguez era. Pro style to dual threat. Run, run, then run some more, to spread it out and make a play. Steven Threet leaving Michigan is more symbolic than we think. He has left the program, and taken the past with him. Can we now move on? Can we now embrace the change? Does this bring the realization that we run a spread offense? Rich Rodriguez is our coach, running his offense. He now has two quarterbacks........two "his guy" quarterbacks. This is now his team.
The transfers, and decommits hurt.....but this is his team. Rich Rodriguez must now command the players. They now need to get behind their leader, and defend their team. This was the final transition.
We've heard all along that we need to wait for his guys....he has them. This is now a new era for Michigan football. This past year was a grasp on what was. A scared look ahead. A season with hands being held. This is the final transition.
Steven Threet represents more than a transfer. He represents the pro style offense, the National Championships, and the Big Ten Championships. He represents what was. This is now what is. What is to become.
He was a square peg in a round hole, and now we have the right pieces to the puzzle.
Now, can Rich Rodrigues put those pieces together......
February 16th, 2009 at 7:54 AM ^
For better or for worse, we're officially all in with the new ball coach. And, I'm very confident that the learning curve for Tate will be much different than Threet's.
Threet was accepted at Georgia Tech-- he's not stupid... Rodriguez now has his people in the fold, and he's just waiting for a sign to turn the team over to Tate or Denard for good. Threet knows he can't ultimately keep the job forever, and probably portions of this year was all he had left in the winged helmet. Remember, the most precious possession a college athlete has is his eligibility.
I wish him the best, but I think this isn't the end of the world. Now, if ol' Shoelace hadn't bought in, that's another story.
On a brighter side... now the #10 is once again available... D. Robinson??
February 16th, 2009 at 7:56 AM ^
Why did he decide to transfer now? He had a good shot of starting this year and if he played well this year to at least have a roll in future years.
Good Luck to Threet, but still disappointing.
February 16th, 2009 at 8:07 AM ^
this is deep
February 16th, 2009 at 8:07 AM ^
from everywhere. I bet he, his family and friends just got tired of it. That, and I am hoping young Forcier was just blowing him out in drills and he saw the writing on the wall. But, that is just me and hope.
Keep in mind, young Forcier is not an average frosh, he has brothers already competing at a collegiate level, and, the guy has had a personal QB coach for years. I am hoping he is the Matt Ryan equivalent impact player this year.
February 16th, 2009 at 8:15 AM ^
you're saying, but its hard for me to see Steve Threet as the representation of our past Big Ten and National Championships.
February 16th, 2009 at 8:30 AM ^
but think that another 6 win season will 1) make recruiting even more difficult next year and 2) will make the "Fire RR" contingent more vocal.
With Threet gone, a 6 win season becomes more likely.
February 16th, 2009 at 1:56 PM ^
Why would Rich Rod have Threet start after his utter failure to run the spread offense last year? He couldn't do it. It seems a lot of people on this board have forgotten their abject anger and frustration in watching Toledo, Miami of Ohio and Wisconsin (for 3 1/2 quarters) absolutely stymie Threet on the running plays. He had no idea how to run the offense, was too slow, could not make the reads or throws, and drove the coach nuts. With that back-story, and with a kid coming in who has run this kind of offense for 10 years and has pretty darn good accuracy and speed, why would RR continue throwing Threet on the field? Heck, SHERIDAN beat him out to start the season when they had equal time in the offense. If that didn't tell you that Threet was not cut out for this system, I don't know what will.
He had heart. That's great. What's he going to do - run up the tunnel mid-game? I've never seen a football coach more frustrated at his QBs that Rich Rod. At least have a guy in there who can run the offense and is not a placesetter.
I disagree - I believe Threet's departure makes more wins possible. Tate is accurate, is working hard, is quick, and Denard has that ability as well. Minor is settled in the backfield, Brown and Shaw will mix in too - they will be much more effective with a true running QB in there. The wideouts will get more space since defenses will try to stop the dual-threat that didn't exist last year. I'm confident in our chances of success.
February 16th, 2009 at 2:09 PM ^
Look, Threet wasn't ever going to be Pat White, Colt McCoy or Vince Young, but there's no way that Threet leaving makes us a better team. The best way to ensure that we win as many games as possible is to put as many able-bodied QBs as possible in between the starting job and Nick Sheridan. At BARE MINIMUM Threet would have been one of those QBs. At best, he could have contributed positively, like he did in more than a few games last year.
February 16th, 2009 at 2:07 PM ^
You're over-stating how bad Threet was and ignoring the games in which he played well - Penn State (9/13, 84 yards, 14 carries for 62 yards), Notre Dame (16/23, 175 yards).
If you compare his overall season stats that aren't volume dependent (so, yards per attempt, completion %, passer efficiency), he was on par with Matthew Stafford and Josh Freeman as freshmen - significantly better than Brady Quinn, Juice Williams, and Tyrod Taylor.
February 16th, 2009 at 2:15 PM ^
liberal arts gueer.
February 17th, 2009 at 10:22 AM ^
So you're saying that Tate has run RR's offense since he was eight? Wow.
February 16th, 2009 at 8:43 AM ^
Well put.
February 16th, 2009 at 8:52 AM ^
I have mixed feelings here. My irrational side is happy to see a QB leave from whom I got no vibe that he could be competent. Seeing ST lumber around in RR's offense was painful.
My rational side goes through all the proper observations about experience and freshman QBs and ST getting better and that he probably wouldn't suck as much...
I end up on the side of..."F*** it!"
I don't think there's any way, in the end, that ST over some combination of the two new QBs was going to translate into a good season vs. a disastrous season. He just is not that good - period.
We've all seen competent freshman QBs, from Leach to Smith to Navarre to Henne - it's possible and TF looks like a kid who's had the necessary kind of prep. We have an easy schedule. Now, TF gets all the snaps and the offensive style won't be in doubt. With the better OLine, I think TF has a chance to do well. More so than ST.
Not a scientific analysis, but cathartic nonetheless.
February 16th, 2009 at 9:17 AM ^
"Steven Threet represents more than a transfer. He represents the pro style offense, the National Championships, and the Big Ten Championships. He represents what was."
are we supposed to be happy about this?
February 16th, 2009 at 9:22 AM ^
And Rich Rod will be transitioning his way out of Michigan with another 3-4 win season. Yeah, I'm sure the AD will give Rod time to get his system and pieces together, but I doubt the fanbase and alumni will put up with another bad losing season. Of all the positions to have a true freshman starting, QB is the worst. We're going to see the same mistakes we saw all last year. The best scenario would have been easing the freshmen in slowly, not throwing them into the fire right off the bat. I don't know; this year is going to be another tremendous struggle.
February 16th, 2009 at 9:36 AM ^
So are you trying to say that it's Threets fault that Martavius Odoms and Brandon Minor fumble too much? Or maybe it's Threets fault that Morgan " The Morgue" Trent and Stevie Brown can't tackle? Good thing you probably got your degree in dentistry from UM cos you know nothing about football. It's a team sport last time I checked, and we have all 5 offensive lineman and 2 senior running backs coming back next season.
February 16th, 2009 at 10:21 AM ^
I can't agree here. Threet was a bad fit, Tate is a good fit. The OLine was not good for Threet, the OLine, by every analysis, looks to be an emerging strength. The system was new vs. being in place one year.
We won't see the same mistakes. We'll see mistakes, sure, but it will not be as bad. Pryor, Henne, Bradford, McCoy - why do people think that one year of Threet means all freshman QBs are death?
February 16th, 2009 at 11:27 AM ^
I do not know how good a fit Forcier or Robinson are, as neither have yet to take a snap in spring practice.
But I do know that these two guys are true freshmen, in an offense that requires them to carry the ball a bit. Their physical maturation is not complete, and they are going to be hit hard, and often, by guys 3, 4 and maybe even 5 years older.
That, in conjunction with our lack of depth concerns me.
February 16th, 2009 at 12:25 PM ^
Why do you think that Chad Henne succeeding as a true freshman QB means that Forcier will be good? I generally don't expect anecdotal arguments from you.
Bradford and McCoy were in their 2nd years in the program.
February 16th, 2009 at 2:50 PM ^
Personally, I'm not expectin TForce to be GOOD, I'm just expecting him to be adequate, because I have faith RRod will field a competitive team.
If Threet felt like the job was his to lose he wouldn't have left. I do not blame last season on Threet, but I do think someone else could make a better option this season.
February 16th, 2009 at 9:43 AM ^
ST may not have been "the man" last year but don't forget we did not exactly have a killer offensive line. I see ST more as the freshman great who put all of the pieces together during the Wisconsin game and then suffered through a series of injuries to his shoulder, etc. I think a healthy ST this year would have been a major upgrade. ST had "it" to a certain extent. I am sure Tate and D-Rob have "it" as well and I am sure the fall-out from this transfer will not be all THAT bad. We may lose one or two more games this year as a result but in the future we may reap the benefits of a more experienced QB next season.
That said, I am going to miss ST back there because I think with a solid o-line (like we will have this upcoming season) we would have been much improved. No one was willing to give the guy a break, though, so I guess we reap what we sew...
February 16th, 2009 at 10:25 AM ^
I truly wonder what season other fans watched when they suggest Threet had potential. I watched Central Michigan play Ball State and those were QBs with vastly more potential. Threet was mostly awful with brief moments of not awful.
That said, you're right about all elements of this team getting better. Threet would have appeared even more not awful this year.
February 16th, 2009 at 10:40 AM ^
My take is that the board's collective claim that Threet would have been better this year rested (it's moot now, hence the past tense) on two assumptions: (1) sophomores > freshmen at QB (or any other position, for that matter, but the leap is probably biggest at QB), and (2) he was injured and would be less injured this year.
Ehh... My somewhat alcohol-blurred memory of his quality performances last year were a good throw against Utah and a great second half against Wisconsin. And that's about it. He really was just not good at throwing the ball, you know, accurately. He seemed to make the correct reads, but then couldn't deliver with the actual putting of the ball in the catchable area aspect. Maybe assumptions 1 and 2 above were the reason (freshman with pulpy elbows can't throw accurately), but I maintain those are still just hypotheses about why he was mostly awful.
That said, I still don't think it's good news that he transferred, nor is is it at all guaranteed that Tate or Denard will be any more accurate as frosh. And, Steve did bust his arse for UM, which always deserves respect and good wishes for his future.
February 17th, 2009 at 10:29 AM ^
So ND was not a good performance for him? I think our chances of winning 7-8 games just dropped precipitously. 6-6.
February 17th, 2009 at 11:34 AM ^
Yes, 16-23 for a TD and no INTs is good. I forgot that Sheridammit threw several incomprehensibly bad INTs in that game. But didn't Threet throw the bad flare to Minor for a fumble, and didn't he have a yakety sax fumble that was returned for a TD? And wasn't there some other fumble in there somewhere? I guess he was good at ND except when he was abominable. But it was a monsoon, so I'm willing to concede the point and say he had a good throw against Utah, a high good but extraordinarily high variance game against ND and a good second half against UW.
February 16th, 2009 at 2:00 PM ^
...tell me you meant "the fourth quarter of the Wisconsin game," because his first half was one of the worst halves of football I've ever seen a QB play.
Go back and read Brian's post-mortem on the QB position and explain to me why we shouldn't put QBs on the field that match the system that our coach wants to run?
Tom is right - Threet was a square peg in a round hole. We now have 2 better options. If Threet was going to be on the bench, based on everyone's prognostications, by the Indiana game, well, let's just accelerate the process. Tate has 9 months to get ready.
February 16th, 2009 at 10:25 AM ^
We quickly forget that we were forced to play a limited and modified play book because of Threet and Sheridans limitations in the spread. Do to the limitations on offense (not having a mobile QB for the spread)we saw the mighty Maize and Blue only win 3 games. This new spread offense at Michigan needs to evolve into the high flying offense that RR promises and has been proven at West Virgina. T Force and D Rob can do that. You can not do that with threet, a better than average prostyle kid. The only benefit I could have seen from Threet staying was to help in the transition of the two freshmen. As far as I am concerned Sheridan can do that now. Don't get me wrong Threet was heads and tails a better all around QB (Than Sheridan) but as far as leader among our young QBs sheridan will do great. He is a very smart kid and will get our freshmen QBs prepared to start winning beginning with western Michigan.
February 17th, 2009 at 10:32 AM ^
The playbook was limited not because of Threet's 'limitations', but because it was a completely new offense for EVERYONE. As it will be a completely new offense for both freshman QB's.
February 16th, 2009 at 10:33 AM ^
Threet was a good guy and played hard but watching him jog around trying make plays was brutal. I get why everyone is freaked out having a tru frosh start but one could argue that starting a freshmen QB in the spread is easier than the pro style offenses. Atheltic QBs have a back up plan when things break down and are able to make plays with both their feet and arm; something that was lacking last year. I think that we bascially get the same thing out of the passing game and probably an little upgrade when you factor in Sheridan. Our running game can only improve with the addition of a QB who can actually run. Another thing I like about our new QBs is that they want to play in this offense. They haven't made Kevin Newsome like comments about not wanting to play in the spread. They want to be here and know the offense fits their skills. I agree with most everyone in saying that Threet was a great guy and played hard but if the general feeling was that he was going to be overtaken by the end of the year, why not just start the new guys right away against the likes of Western, Eastern, Delaware State and so on.
February 16th, 2009 at 12:18 PM ^
"Atheltic QBs have a back up plan when things break down and are able to make plays with both their feet and arm; something that was lacking last year."
On some level, this worries me. I'm not a scout, but in Forcier's highlight videos, he sometimes takes the snap and appears to just start running straight backwards, and darts around twenty yards behind the line before finding the hole and gaining a first down or whatever. Maybe it was because his O-line wasn't very good, but his competition wasn't very good, either. I'm afraid his backup plan is going to be, effectively, "lose twenty yards."
February 16th, 2009 at 10:43 AM ^
one of my friends that knows threet says that he is lookin at schools like washington and cal but nothing is solidified or anything. washington would be a good spot for him in my opinion since they are in DESPERATE need but obviously its to early to tell for sure where he will go. best of luck steve where ever you may end up
February 16th, 2009 at 12:29 PM ^
He can't get a scholarship at a Div. 1 school again.
February 16th, 2009 at 1:21 PM ^
Well, if not I'm sure he can get some student loans or something. Most people do not go to college on an athletic scholarship and yet most people manage to get through school just fine (but in debt.)
All of that said, I'd love to see him at Cal. That would be a great fit for him, as Tedford is wonderful at coaching erratic QBs into becoming solid starters (Longshore and Ayoob excepted.)
February 16th, 2009 at 1:27 PM ^
Coach Sark transitioned from a spread offense to a pro-style offense at UW, so that might seemingly be a fit, but unfortunately for as inept as UW was last year, QB is the position where they have a star. Threet is not better than Jake Locker and would be sitting behind me for the next 2 years.
February 16th, 2009 at 2:01 PM ^
...of Jake Locker, right? He's better than Threet.
February 16th, 2009 at 1:08 PM ^
While its unlikely that Forcier will set the world on fire next year, if I were going to have a recruit come in start the whole year as a freshman in RR's offense he'd probably be candidate #1.
He was probably the most polished dual threat recruit to come out this year and he's already going to be getting a lot of snaps this winter and spring. I don't see him being any worse than threet was in his first year, AND if he can stay healthy the whole year (which Threet didn't) that should be good enough for a couple more wins. It's an improvement over last year if he completes over 50% of his passes. That bar isn't too high.
The only thing that bothered my about his high school tape was the fact that he would drop the football, pick it back up, and then make some ridiculous play. In college that will result in his head getting crushed in.
February 16th, 2009 at 1:29 PM ^
The predictions that UM will be .500 or even have another three-win season are laughable. For a program which has had Rick Leach and Chad Henne perform quite will as freshmen, some of their so-called "fans" have extremely short memories.
Threet had numerous chances to hit wide-open recievers and failed. If he had simply hit open recievers, UM would have made a bowl game last year. Threet didn't; UM didn't.
This year, the team will have one more year in RR's and Barwis' programs. Hopefully, they will have at least one QB who can SIMPLY HIT OPEN RECIEVERS. And they will have at least two QB's who can make plays with their feet. If Jeremy Gallon passes his ACT, he could make a very nice wildcat QB, too.
I still think they will win at least seven; AAMOF, I will stick with my 9-3 prediction.
If a team with mediocre talent like Northwestern can win with the spread, a team with a lot of talent like UM can will bigger. And, even though the QB's will be freshmen, they will be spread QB's, and the transition won't be as difficult as it could be.
Another point that many overlook is that RR has been very generous in "spreading" the spread. There is the possibility that the QB's who ran spread offenses in high school are using some of RR's terminology and plays verbatim, like Northwestern did when they first started using it.
At any rate, Forcier and Robinson have probably been running many of RR's plays in high school already. If so, the transition will be a lot easier than many think.
Hopefully, the "UM's gonna suck" posts can be saved for MSU and OSU blogs, where they belong.
February 16th, 2009 at 1:32 PM ^
Explain to me how Rick Leach and Chad Henne influence the success of Tate Forcier and Denard Robinson. Go.
February 16th, 2009 at 1:59 PM ^
I'm not going to try to do that. What I think he and others are saying with the Leach, Henne, et al references isn't so much that the past implies TF will be good, as much as saying that since true freshman have succeeded in the past give us hope that it's possible another can do that same.
Many true freshman at QB struggle, but some don't. Because some haven't we have reason to believe that it's possible, maybe not likely, that TF will come in a be adequate or above.
February 16th, 2009 at 1:59 PM ^
Where is this wildcat coming from? It is used primarily by pro-style offenses as a wrinkle. Aside from Tulsa most spread teams don't really use it.
February 16th, 2009 at 3:24 PM ^
Does this mean that all the folks that said Threet would definitely be the starting QB next year and that "no way" is Forcier going to be the starter are wrong?
February 16th, 2009 at 3:35 PM ^
Yes. What's your point? Someone on the internet was WRONG about something that was pure speculation?
You, my friend, are an observant one.
February 16th, 2009 at 3:45 PM ^
There were quite a few of us who thought Threet would start the first game, but who said "no way" is Forcier going to be the starter?
February 16th, 2009 at 3:51 PM ^
Obviously, yes, but not "wrong" in the sense that Forcier beat out Threet in a full-on competition; unless we want to move to Speculationville and craft elaborate stories about Tate being so awesome that Threet packed his bags crying in the middle of the night.
February 16th, 2009 at 4:28 PM ^
A) Threet is from Adrian so location does not appear to be a problem.
B) Anyone know if academics is a problem?
If not A or B, then why transfer (unless the writing was on the wall)?
PS, Does Threet actually look like an NFL caliber QB? If not, why not stick around at M, get a degree, and get on with life?
February 16th, 2009 at 4:38 PM ^
c) he harbors NFL aspirations and realizes that the Spread and he are not an ideal fit.
February 16th, 2009 at 4:26 PM ^
Did Pat White start from Day 1 at WVU? I thought he finished the year as freshman starter when they beat Georgia, but I may be wrong about that. Who knows if he'll have similar success with Tate or Denard, but I hope so.
February 16th, 2009 at 4:30 PM ^
Patrick began the 2005 season as a co-starter along with Adam Bednarik.
White's shared time with Bednarik continued until the seventh game of the season against Louisville. With WVU down 24–7, White came in to replace an injured Bednarik and led the Mountaineers to a 46-44, triple overtime victory.
February 16th, 2009 at 4:44 PM ^
Here's another tidbit: Pat White was a REDSHIRT FRESHMAN when he stepped in for Bednarik in that game. He had close to 1.5 years of strength and conditioning, working on mechanics, adapting to speed of the college game, and learning the playbook. Any comparisons to White's and Forcier's first season should end now.
February 17th, 2009 at 10:37 AM ^
Thank you. Damn people, chill, we will find out soon enough.