Possible good vibes re: 2021 recruits
First of all, I started a thread last week about West Bloomfield (MI) West Bloomfield running back Donovan Edwards possibly being more likely to come to Michigan with news that TreVeyon Henderson was likely to commit to OSU. Well, Henderson committed to Ohio State last night. That doesn't mean Edwards is a Michigan lock (Georgia is also a possibility, for example), but it probably helps.
Now The Wolverine's E.J. Holland put in a FutureCast pick for Brentwood (TN) Ravenwood linebacker Junior Colson to pick Michigan. Colson is a 247 Composite 4-star, the #10 outside linebacker, and #127 overall.
I also forgot to mention that Elk Grove (CA) Monterey Trail running back Prophet Brown put Michigan in his top six. He's a 4-star, the #23 running back, and #338 overall. The other schools are Nebraska, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Oregon, and USC.
RB AJ Green also put Michigan in his top 8!
4 of the top 5 recruiters in the BigTen are at O$U. Alford, Hartline, Coombs, and Washington are all elite, and Johnson and Maddie are not chopped liver. The addition of B-J-M is a good start, but I believe we need to think bigger if we are going to compete in these living rooms. Said this before, but I think this starts with alumni and either moving on from MD or adding more fire power to his staff.
Jay holds his own, and so does Zordich. Nua is clearly our best, and Gattis is right behind him. Imagine Braylon or AC coming home to get the WR room and recruits firing on all cylinders. Or Mike Martin and Kovacs coming back to help on the defense. This is the kind of JUICE we need.
Lastly, I believe strongly that Michigan has superior coaches from an X and O standpoint. Our coaches had great game plans and did their best to prepare the players. The talent gap is just too much to overcome. In a live draft format before last years game, if you give coach Harbaugh and coach Day alternating picks, not only are the first 8 picks OSU players, but probably somewhere around 65/35 in favor of O$U.
Young, Dobbins, Fields, Okudah, Hamilton, Landers, Wilson, Olave, etc. (You can probably argue for Uche, Hutchinson, Ruiz, Runyan, and Bredeson, and maybe Bell to be in the top 20.) However, Michigan will probably put 10 kids into the NFL this year, which is a BIG number and year for us, and still the overall roster talent GAP between programs seems to be increasing.
Cheers
No offense, but I think this is a bad take regarding the guys you're discussing. Ohio State's best recruiters - the specific guys you mention - are not former OSU players, except for Hartline.
I have no interest in Braylon Edwards coaching at Michigan. He's a douche. I don't know what AC is doing now, nor Mike Martin.
Maybe Kovacs could be a guy, but he doesn't bring much "JUICE." No kid playing today is going to know who Kovacs is. That's not the equivalent of bringing in Ken Norton (USC) or Kliff Kingsbury (Texas Tech), guys who were stars.
The point is that there's really no consistent example of a school bringing in its former star players to be standout coaches, including Ohio State. Yes, there are some examples (such as, I don't know, JIM HARBAUGH), but it's not like the staffs at Clemson, Alabama, Ohio State, etc. are littered with former players at those particular schools.
To a certain extent, I understand why people pine for Mike Hart. He was a star player, he's risen through the coaching ranks, he's a good recruiter, etc. But the guys you mentioned above (other than Kovacs) are just random dudes.
Michigan State isn't going to fix itself by hiring TJ Duckett, Jeff Smoker, Andre Rison, and Percy Snow.
The OT game versus Michigan State was probably the best performance I've ever scene by a WR. Braylon was amazing/unstoppable in a game where every play mattered. .... not to pile on, but the dude obviously has issues as demonstrated by his pro career, arrests and media statements after he was done with his career.
March 28th, 2020 at 10:15 AM ^
Maybe it's a bad take. However, I think our best coach/recruiters have also for some reason not stuck in AA, and this too is hurting us. Wheatley, CP, Bush, camp, and Washington all were pretty good recruiters and for whatever reason all are gone.
I think if TJ Duckett and Andre Rison went back to MSU they would get much better and fast, so I disagree with that take.
Also, Coombs, and Washington are both built in Columbus you can say, so although they may not be alumni they are the closest thing to it, and most importantly WANT TO WORK AT O$U.
Cheers
March 28th, 2020 at 10:38 AM ^
"I think if TJ Duckett and Andre Rison went back to MSU they would get much better and fast, so I disagree with that take."
Duckett has never coached at any level.
Rison has coached only at the high school level. In 2010 he became coach at Flint Northwestern, but left after only two years—in May 2012, Rison announced that he was leaving Flint Northwestern in order to complete his degree at Michigan State and join the football team as an assistant coach.
In spite of his stated desire to coach at MSU, he never coached there.
So we've got two guys, one of whom has zero coaching experience at any level and the other who openly stated he wanted to coach at MSU but apparently was never asked to join the staff.
And they'd improve MSU in a hurry?
March 28th, 2020 at 10:57 AM ^
Yes, because they would upgrade the in state recruiting. You are talking about two of MSU best players EVER. My guess, TJ would dominate in West Michigan, and Rison would dominate in Metro Detroit. MSU was at their best when Blackwell was pulling kids out of Detroit (also ended up being his demise).
Say what you want, but the gap is widening, which is a direct correlation to recruiting among other things.
March 28th, 2020 at 12:15 PM ^
Just accept the L and move along.
Reading comprehension obviously apparently matches critical thinking skills for GoJ
You get an award for worst takes of the day and you just keep building on them. I think you should look at the Blackwell timeline, I don’t think it coincides with Dantonio’s best days in any way. In fact, the only correlation was probably more the sudden fall off in Ann Arbor under RR and Brady Hoke. Blackwell joined the team as it saturated to roll down hill.
March 28th, 2020 at 10:58 AM ^
Celebrity also isn't a good gage of recruiting ability . There are guys who everyone seems to love and bond with, not necessarily extroverts or "popular," but those connector type people who in the real world end up being great salespeople. I'm guessing that a much smaller percentage of celebrity athletes have developed that ability as they've always been the one people have wanted to be around. You want the ugly guy who always seems to have a lot of hot girlfriends.
Also, no one knows who Andre Rison or TJ Duckett is anymore. Let alone Braylon Edwards. These kids were born in 2003+.
March 28th, 2020 at 12:31 PM ^
"our best coach/recruiters have also for some reason not stuck in AA."
People move on and get better jobs. That's what happened with Partridge and with Wheatley. Coombs went to the Titans.
I don't know how we judge the effectiveness of Bush as a recruiter. Since he was never a coach, he never really recruited.
March 28th, 2020 at 12:49 PM ^
People come and go to improve their positions. That’s the business. You try to replace who leaves with better coaches and better recruiters. It’s not complicated.
Yes,
Andre Rison and his experience at Beecher and as the Skyline OC and TJ Ducket and his, uh...non existent coaching profile will certainly make MSU much better and fast.
Just because they are names (names that recruits who arent already MSU fans may not now btw) doesnt mean that good recruits want to come play for them. They want to be coached too.
You've clearly never hung out with TJ Duckett. He's not a bad guy, but he is a space cadet.
March 28th, 2020 at 11:31 AM ^
Full disclosure, I am a Buckeye fan. Now that that's out of the way I think you're right, Brian Hartline is a special case, he worked his way to where he is. He was and assistant coach for 3 years before he was promoted, not many former NFL players with "juice" want that kind of grind.
Hartline has had NFL overtures the past 2 seasons, and instead has decided to raise his family in Columbus. One could assume he will be the OC one day or maybe even the head coach. He goes into these living rooms and says: I did it in college at the highest level, and the NFL at the highest level. He sells OSU every second and believes in his heart he's the best wr coach in nation, and OSU is the best program in the nation. This is what Michigan needs. Maybe it's not Jordan Kovacs, or Mike Martin. (btw AC is not a fan of coach Harbaugh, Leroy Hoard discussed this on his radio show over a year ago I believe)
How hard do you think Tony Alford job is? "Hello Mom, Dad, and young man. How would you like to be the next one in this line of great backs: Wells, Hyde, Zeke, Dobbins, ___________.
The gap is widening, and short of a scandal at OSU or our recruiting getting better it will continue to grow IMO.
cheers
March 28th, 2020 at 11:47 AM ^
I agree with both Magnus and GoJG to some degrees. I just think Harbaugh dug himself a hole when he initially got here. We had a bunch of middle aged white dudes out there. We’ve needed younger dudes who these kids can relate to. Seeing someone like Roy Roundtree leave kind of sucks but he had to. A guy like Kovacs could be huge imo. Young guy, knows the program and seemed to love it here. Could sell the program really well I think.
March 28th, 2020 at 12:43 PM ^
This is just flat-out wrong. The coaching staff in 2015 included Greg Jackson (not white), D.J. Durkin (who was like 37, which is pretty young for a DC), Jay Harbaugh (not middle-aged), and Tyrone Wheatley (not white). And the S&C coach was Kevin Tolbert, who is not white.
You had 10 total coaches in 2015, and 4 of them were not "middle aged white guys." If you count the S&C guy, 5/11 weren't.
I don’t think we need former Michigan stars. But I do like looking at young guys who are former players, it’s why I was one of the few who liked the idea of hiring Tank Wright.
Im not sure how to stop coaching turnover, it’s probably impossible. I think the only program in the country that’s done that is Clemson.
Pretty much all of them moved on to what were clearly better positions.That means Harbaugh is good at selecting coaches. It also means they are not likely to stay unless the program has promotional opportunities for them. If the timing just happens to be right you won't be able to keep most of them.
March 28th, 2020 at 11:01 AM ^
Moving on from MD?
Mork D'Antoni? Huh wut?
March 28th, 2020 at 11:38 AM ^
Matt Dudek. People on this board don’t like him because he’s a bit arrogant on twitter. But from all reports he’s very good at his job which is connecting it’s recruits and having a good on campus experience
March 28th, 2020 at 12:09 PM ^
Everyone needs to do better, Dudek included. This class sits at #17 right now and while we should finish top 10, OSU is able to spend far more time on their 2022 class. With the recent commitments we are up to 4 players, we have a long way to go. No one could have seen the COVID issues coming but the early signing period has changed the game and we have to get ahead of the early signing curve.
March 28th, 2020 at 12:56 PM ^
Yes, OSU spends more on their recruiting class.
Michigan spent 1.6 million versus Ohio State's 960k last year...this year I don't think either has spent much at all though
Someone should tell Dudek his job is having MGoBlog users like him and not connecting with the recruits who play the football
Isn't Zordich pretty well known for not really liking/doing much recruiting?
He's brought some good guys in.
Maybe this is a hot take, but it’s also significantly easier to recruit at OSU right now. They can point to the trophy cases. They can point to the results on the field. Michigan can’t do that.
Maybe those guys are “better recruiters,” but having them at Michigan isn’t going to produce OSU recruiting results until Michigan can point to the trophy case and have something to show for what we’re doing.
Our last conference title was in 2004. How old were these recruits when that happened? Maybe the problem is that we keep trying to compare ourselves to teams that are going to the CFP and winning conference titles every year. The goal is to get there, but if you’re expecting to be there just because it’s Michigan, you’re probably going to continue to be disappointed. It’s not as simple as getting a stud recruiter. As long as Bama, OSU and Clemson can keep pointing to that trophy case, it’s not going to matter a whole lot.
And suggesting that we just bring in former players with zero coaching experience as the answer is honestly pretty crazy.
Of note, in state viper target Jamari Buddin may have made his decision
Decjding between Mich, MSU, PSU, Minn, and Purdue.
Crystal ball and future cast all in Michigan’s favor except one future cast by spartan writer who flipped to MSU last night.
I never trust those posts. Too many recruits follow that up with something like...
"I think it's time..."
"...to play some Call of Duty!"
P.S. I don't really see Buddin being a Viper long-term. I think he'll grow into an inside linebacker.
That’s fair. I’m just on the lookout for some positive news.
March 28th, 2020 at 10:22 AM ^
Henderson committed to OSU without even visiting campus... That's definitely not weird and totally normal
March 28th, 2020 at 10:30 AM ^
If he's ever used the internet before then he's visited their campus.
March 28th, 2020 at 11:39 AM ^
Exactly, I don’t think 80% of their current team has ever visited campus ?
Turns out Venmo doesn’t require an in person visit.
JK Dobbins didn't visit OSU either before committing. Henderson talked to Dobbins about that before committing yesterday.
March 28th, 2020 at 10:50 AM ^
Are we out on 4* OT Garrett Dellinger? All of his crystal ball predictions are for LSU with some coming in in the last 10 days which coincided with Giudice's offer. I know there was some talk that Dellinger could project as a DT and Giudice as well and I'm wondering if Giudice's offer means the staff sees the writing on the wall with Dellinger. I though UM would be a strong contender for him.
March 28th, 2020 at 11:01 AM ^
Dellinger does not project to DT at all. You’re thinking of Rocco Spindler.
March 28th, 2020 at 11:15 AM ^
Oh, ok. Saw a pic of the two of them on the sideline together on a visit and the article delved into both of their recruitments. Got em mixed up I guess.
March 28th, 2020 at 12:52 PM ^
I thought Spindler was more likely to play Ol as well. I think they found a program guy unrelated to anyone else when it’s this early.
March 28th, 2020 at 12:11 PM ^
Caleb Tiernan to Northwestern. That's a bit of a surprise, seemed like Warinner wanted him.
Relax three star mafia, that's one we won't get. I wonder if this means that the staff thinks they're really going to get Davidkov and Spindler and I forget the rest of the guys in the top group.
March 28th, 2020 at 12:25 PM ^
Definitely a surprise. Kurt Anderson (Michigan alum) has been doing some great work for NW. I think if we can get Davidkov we’ll be in good shape for tackles. Also fighting for Nolan Rucci and Michigan has made some contact with Tristan Bounds out of CT.
OSU players get into a system in which they are payed a smaller monthly stipend from a cash pool from university donors. Upon graduation or leaving the program to the NFL they get a larger sum of money for their efforts. That’s the story I heard anyways.
You gotta play by SEC rules if you want to recruit like the SEC
Colson looks like a nice player, but will probably be a tough get.
Saw an article from The Tennessean that said Jeremy Pruitt and his staff are prioritizing him.