OT - Sandra Day O'Connor, first woman on the Supreme Court, dies

Submitted by MGoGrendel on December 1st, 2023 at 12:00 PM

From an article (emphases mine)

Retired Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, the first woman to serve on the court, died Friday in Phoenix, Ariz., of complications related to advanced dementia, probably Alzheimer's, and a respiratory illness, the court announced.

O'Connor was appointed to the court by President Reagan in 1981 and retired in 2006, after serving more than 24 years on the court.

While on the court, O'Connor was called "the most powerful woman in America".

She was 93 years old. 

Also, Henry Kissinger (100!) died last week.

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DennisFranklinDaMan

December 1st, 2023 at 2:10 PM ^

I don't know what you're saying, actually. That ... America bears no responsibility for its role in the bombing of Cambodia? That if something terrible resulted directly from that — I'm not saying it did, only if it did — it is nonetheless not our fault? That we can bomb/destroy other countries, but bear no responsibility for the resulting effects on their culture and political systems?

Fine with me if you want to argue that, in the case of Pol Pot, that's not what happened. But to dismiss the arguments of those who believe otherwise as "sophistry" is weird. You're accusing them of making "fallacious arguments, especially ones used deliberately to deceive?" You're accusing them of lying about what they believe? How can you know that?

I, for one, believe what the United States did in Cambodia did play a role in the rise (and growth) of the Khmer Rouge, and I believe that Kissinger, as an architect of our bombing campaigns there, bears some of the responsibility for it. 

Maybe he did what he did with the best of motives. Maybe it was, in the end, a necessary step in the war. I don't personally believe that, but I'm happy to hear and consider your evidence. But just to accuse people who disagree with you of lying about their convictions is weird.

 

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SalvatoreQuattro

December 1st, 2023 at 3:03 PM ^

I dismiss the arguments of people who try to blame the US for the brutality of the Khmer Rouge.  The US owns its actions. So do the Khmer Rouge.

The USSR secretly allowed the Germans between the wars to rebuild and rearm their military on Soviet soil. They then signed a pact with Hitler. By your logic the USSR is responsible for the Second World War and the Holocaust.

Don’t you see how absurd that is?

Yes, they are using “subtlety deceptive reasoning”. Rather than hold the Khmer Rouge and Communism responsible for their crimes they cynically blame the policies of the US for the killing fields to deflect from the brutal reality of the ideology they espouse.

The US is responsible for its policies and actions. The Khmer Rouge is responsible for theirs. Trying to deflect responsibility as so many do in the realm of politics is morally and ethically perverse.

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FB Dive

December 1st, 2023 at 4:02 PM ^

I don't think you have to assign direct culpability to the US for the Khmer Rouge's atrocities in order to believe Kissinger's role in Cambodia was abhorrent. The carpet bombing campaign killed up to 150,000 civilians. That alone warrants condemnation, even putting aside the subsequent consequences of the destabilization.

By the way, don't most people assign the Soviet Union partial blame for WWII? Even discounting the German rearmament that took place on Soviet soil (most of which happened during the Weimar era), the Soviets also invaded Poland and carried out brutal atrocities. Agree though that it would be illogical to blame the Soviets for the Holocaust.

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4godkingandwol…

December 1st, 2023 at 12:20 PM ^

Regardless of your political leaning and your opinion on Kissinger as an effective statesman who helped/hurt Americas long term global interests, I think we can all agree that his actions will land him in hell (if one believes in such a place). Whether a martyr or pariah, I’ll reserve my own opinion… mostly out of ignorance of geopolitics. 

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4godkingandwol…

December 1st, 2023 at 1:39 PM ^

Yes. He is directly accountable for the murder of a lot of people. I’m guessing that hell is where those people go even if those deaths were good for the United States, a country that I love and where my family sleeps safely every night. To be fair, most statesmen would be in hell based on that criteria and rightly so. 

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SalvatoreQuattro

December 1st, 2023 at 1:30 PM ^

Kissinger was the tool of an empire just as Castro was. Power manifested in different forms but the same in action. ‘‘Twas ever thus.

History is filled to the brim with Henry Kissingers. A new(old)twist on the banality of evil Arendt wrote  about.

I will note that many  who damn Kissinger today lauded or support the actions of Hamas. Such is the perversity of man that people permit ideology to influence their morality. A spade is only a spade if it’s shade is properly noxious to one’s beliefs.

Henry Kissinger’s life  is a reflection of not just American actions but that of humanity at large.

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DennisFranklinDaMan

December 1st, 2023 at 2:15 PM ^

You're being so philosophical today. :-)

It sounds like you're saying every American — maybe every human — would have made the same decisions Kissinger made. I disagree. And I think it's fair to hold people responsible for the decisions they make. Not necessarily to be surprised by them.

Brezhnev sent in tanks. Gorbachev did not. Circumstances aside, I think it's ok to praise one and condemn the other.

 

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SalvatoreQuattro

December 1st, 2023 at 3:11 PM ^

My point is that accountability is very much influenced by belief. If you have an affinity for someone you are less likely to hold them accountable than someone whose beliefs run counter to yours.

People get up in arms over the US being allied with Iraq, but remain much less so about the US being allied with Stalin. A man who was much worse than any Caudillo or Middle Easterner dictator.

Henry Kissinger was a shithead. So are 99% of all people in the upper reaches of politics. Understanding that moral perversity knows no ideological or national boundaries is the first step in accepting that there is no moral arc.

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bluesparkhitsy…

December 1st, 2023 at 12:12 PM ^

RIP.  Apart from her many accomplishments, Justice O'Connor hired multiple clerks from Michigan's law school.  This was notable, as the Court overall leans very heavily into Ivy League law schools for their law clerks, and a number of justices hired only from the Ivy League.  O'Connor was smart enough to know where the talent was.

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superstringer

December 1st, 2023 at 12:13 PM ^

I went to the same law school she did (few years apart). When she was on the Court, she came to speak. She was approachable, friendly, charismatic, highly intelligent.

The stories about how she started her legal practice in Phoenix are true, she spoke about it that day. She wanted to work for a NY law firm... but (this was 1951) they only offered her jobs as a legal SECRETARY, not as a lawyer. Graduating from Stanford!!! She took a position as a lawyer at a Phoenix firm.

A true legal legend.

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JacquesStrappe

December 1st, 2023 at 1:12 PM ^

RIP Justice O’Connor and Henry Kissinger. 

Many didn’t like Kissinger based on his time as the U.S. top diplomat and his pragmatic practice of Realpolitik. Few remember his service in WWII and his role in tracking down Gestapo officers and garnering intelligence on concentration camps. Nor does he get credit for changing the U.S. policy of massive retaliation and tactical nuclear weapons use in the event of war to one in favor of deterrence and proportional responses. Instead he will be remembered for the massive bombing of Cambodia. The public and press’s memory is often selective.

Just one thing to remember about O’Connor’s trouble getting a job in New York after she graduated law school. Stanford was not universally acclaimed in the 1950’s as it is today. At that time the school was less than one hundred years old and the Silicon Valley boom had yet to inflate its reputation. It was in many ways seen to be a finishing school for wealthy scions of families from the West Coast, kind of like the way USC was perceived prior to the 2000s. Shows you how times change and how easily ideas and reputations can come in an out of favor. Perhaps something that people pining for all kinds of political positions today should consider lest their views come to not be viewed favorably I hindsight.

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DennisFranklinDaMan

December 1st, 2023 at 2:22 PM ^

Kissinger probably also recycled. Many of us concede the good things he did, but feel that the bad things he did significantly outweighed them. That's not "selective." 

Besides. What is this "U.S. policy of tactical nuclear weapons use" you speak of, that Kissinger allegedly played such a key role in changing? Did we use those weapons in Korea? Had we used them in Vietnam in the ten years we had prosecuted that war before he came to office?

Indeed, had we ever "used" — your word — in any war ever after Hiroshima and Nagasaki? To suggest that those two examples reflected our complete "policy" in any conflict up until Kissinger came along is a pretty bold assertion ...

 

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Qmatic

December 1st, 2023 at 12:17 PM ^

This has been a trio now of famous political/judicial/diplomatic people dying. In all 3 cases, I was surprised to hear they had passed. That's because I thought all 3 had died already years ago.

Long and very impactful lives for Former First-lady Carter, Secretary Kissinger, and Justice O'Conner. 

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goblu330

December 1st, 2023 at 12:25 PM ^

Her nomination was confirmed by the US Senate 99-0, with one Senator being absent but sending her a gift in apology.

Wow, how times have changed.

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