OT: Pistons lose NBA-record 27th straight game
So as a die-hard Lions fan and casual but still supportive Detroit professional sports observer, this is… sad.
While I was just a young pup during the Bad Boys era and started really appreciating the Pistons during the ‘03-‘04 championship run with Billups, Rip, Ben, Sheed, and Tayshaun, it seems this team is not set up for success and hasn’t for a while.
My questions to the board:
Do you care that the Pistons have added to a major sports futility mark a la ‘08 Lions and ‘03 Tigers (AL loss record) or is there any silver lining knowing it can’t get worse from here?
What could or should be done short of selling this team from the current owners and starting from scratch?
Also what are your favorite moments from the franchise in general?
December 27th, 2023 at 11:21 AM ^
Monty Williams has like a .350 winning percentage when he doesn't have Chris Paul lmao
December 27th, 2023 at 1:53 PM ^
I challenge you to find any coach that has a stellar record without a superstar on their roster.
December 27th, 2023 at 3:38 PM ^
I mean, the best players on the Magic are mostly 22 or younger as well.
December 27th, 2023 at 10:19 AM ^
Your description of this team makes it sound like they're about 2 players away from a championship. I feel like it's a bit more than that.
December 27th, 2023 at 10:43 AM ^
"there is a lot of talent amongst the starters"
No there really is not
Ivey still doesn't have an outside game - was hoping he could be poor man Ja without the guns on instagram. Nope. Also turns the ball over a lot.
Cade is talented but not top 10 player type talented. He is more like top 35 NBA player. He also leads the league in turnovers. He played lights out 2nd half of yesterday's game but where is that player most of the time? Needs to be more alpha especially on this team where he is deferring to guys that wouldn't play for 1/2 the league.
Duran is a great player.... for 1998 NBA. Not the modern game. If you got a guy like him you need 3 & D guys everywhere so he can feed inside and not be crowded. I do like him, very young, but will be limited in modern NBA without any ability to shoot outside of the paint.
Bogi nice offensive player, awful defensive player. Nets picked on him all night as does everyone.
Beef Stew is a guy you want coming off the bench for a Golden State type of team. He is a nice glue guy - not a starter for a contending team.
That is not a lot of talent sorry. (I realize Duran has been out a while) Look at our "talent" vs say an Orlando or Oklahoma State or hell even Houston. Aside Cade we have little to offer in the modern NBA.
The league is built around 3 point shooting. Pistons are awful at it. A guy like Duncan Robinson would be a godsend for this type of roster construction. Shocking we don't draft guys like that who again are limited in other ways but can shoot the rock. Our 2 guys who are like that are in the 30s.
December 27th, 2023 at 1:00 PM ^
Agree with everything you said except that Cade is more of a top-50 talent rather than top-35
December 27th, 2023 at 8:21 PM ^
Just from that draft alone, I'd take Mobley, Barnes, Franz, and Sengun over Cunningham.
December 27th, 2023 at 12:50 PM ^
Yeah, the bench has been terrible to a degree I didn't think was possible with NBA talent.
Thompson was probably the best option at that spot but it was funny when people said "oh, he'll learn to shoot in the NBA" as if a guy who couldn't do it playing against 16-year-olds as an 18-year-old would suddenly figure it out against elite athletes.
Gores seems like a terrible owner and Weaver has made a bunch of bad GM decisions and also just had bad luck (Joe Harris and Alec Burks have an abysmal shooters after being historically way better for their careers). He's gotta go, and take Williams with him.
Not getting Wemby hurts because Cunningham doesn't strike me as a guy who can be the best player on a championship team, and so they have guys like Cunningham and Ivey who can be good players but lack that superstar to put them over the top and nobody in this draft looks close to that.
December 27th, 2023 at 1:11 PM ^
There is not much defense being played in the NBA at all these days, so if you are offensively limited, you are going to have a bad time.
December 27th, 2023 at 1:11 PM ^
There is not much defense being played in the NBA at all these days, so if you are offensively limited, you are going to have a bad time.
December 27th, 2023 at 9:02 AM ^
They spent boat load of money on a coach to be make them part of Hall of Shame. Sad.
Pistons have to go back to being a blue collar team and find those players who will make them a competitive team. They are not going to get superstars. They have to blow it up and start over.
December 27th, 2023 at 9:10 AM ^
Serious question, how many times do the Pistons need to be blown up to be competitive again?
December 27th, 2023 at 9:19 AM ^
At least one more time.
December 27th, 2023 at 9:31 AM ^
Ehh, I mean I don't 100% agree with that. In this day and age, I don't think the big markets have the same draw in the NBA that they once did, especially if you draft someone and show loyalty. The days of needing to be in a prime market aren't there any longer. Case in point, Giannis. And I think Detroit can be a very good, secondary market even if that were the case. It's not some backwater place. Other than Lebron trying to set up his post-playing career, you're not really seeing talent/free agents flocking to those same destinations (Miami, NY, LA) unless there's a really specific reason. Like, Leonard is a SoCal guy, so that makes sense. It's not like he's some big personality that shines in the spotlight.
December 27th, 2023 at 9:51 AM ^
Milwaukee drafted Giannis, which is the key point here. If he had been drafted elsewhere, Milwaukee would never be in the hunt for a player of his caliber in free agency.
Unless you're a major market team in the NBA, you either have to draft a future superstar or trade for a superstar in order to attract top talent via free agency. The NBA also has contract rules in place that allows team a huge advantage in keeping their stars. (A team can offer vastly more money and an extra year on a new contract to their own players than the rest of the league. This is how a team like Milwaukee can keep a guy like Giannis.)
December 27th, 2023 at 11:24 AM ^
Right, that was my point. Draft and show loyalty and you can create a winning culture and keep and attract talent.
December 27th, 2023 at 9:42 AM ^
Does Aidan Hutchinson play basketball by any chance?
December 27th, 2023 at 9:07 AM ^
The Lions have been bad for decades..... Some argue since the 60's. Finaly, the Lions are in line to win their division (albiet in a down year for the division, but Lions fan's will certainly take it)
The Wings were terrible until the 90's and then had a hell of a run before drifting into the desert of dispair since 2010, when the goal became 'make the playoffs' not 'win the cup'...and desended into a run of seasons that had zero hope for a playoff appearance. Finally, it looks like the fruits of the Yzerplan are starting to ripen and Red Wing hockey might be back.
The Pistons are warm garbage in a smoldering dumpster (it would appear, I don't watch NBA, but setting a NBA record for consecutive losses isn't something that happens due to bad luck).
The Tigers..... a decade ago they sold the farm to be a contender and had a blistering 4 year run, but couldn't close the deal and have wallowed in mediocrity ever since (not a lot to indicate that's about to change either)
Detroit is only allowed to have two of their four professional sports teams be competative at the same time, the other two are banished to futility...
December 27th, 2023 at 9:25 AM ^
Well the Lions did win the division as of last Sunday so that monkey is finally of their back. Also they were at least decent for stretches during the ‘90’s and even considered formidable for a couple years making the playoffs.
But you do bring up a good topic of best/worst sports cities who have the 4 major sports franchises. Has a city ever had all 4 major sports franchises win a championship or conference/division the same year?
December 27th, 2023 at 9:46 AM ^
I would guess Boston might be the most likely.... the Pats, Bruins, Celtics and Red Sox.... a quick google search shows them all being contenders in the last 20 years....
Pats winning in '04, '05, '15, '17 & '19 Sox winning in '04, '07, '13 & '18 Celtics in '08 and Bruins in '11
Dogers and Lakers won in 2020, Rams in 2022 and Kings in 2014.
professional sports teams all contenders at the same time probably isn't too rare, but winning the championship in the same year would be pretty spectacular.
December 27th, 2023 at 10:21 AM ^
Oakland back in the mid 70s had a nice run: A's won the world series in '72, '73, '74, Raiders were contenders every year and won the Super Bowl in '76 and I think the Warriors won the NBA title in '75.
December 27th, 2023 at 9:46 AM ^
Didn't Boston do this a few years ago?
EDIT: see post above for proper research
December 27th, 2023 at 1:22 PM ^
1935:
Detroit Lions - NFL Champions
Detroit Tigers - World Series winner
Detroit Red Wings (1935-1936 team) - Stanley Cup winner
(no pro basketball in Detroit at that time).
December 27th, 2023 at 1:38 PM ^
The Red Wings won their first Stanley Cup on 4/11/36.
Detroit held a Champions Day celebration a week later.
December 27th, 2023 at 10:29 AM ^
I think the Tigers are closer than people expect. I really like this front office so far and am a huge AJ Hinch fan. The Tigers have been young and below average talent but have punched above their weight and won more games than they were supposed to in 2 of the 3 Hinch years so far, even with getting hit by a ton of injuries.
They've quietly had a really nice offseason with some of the additions they've made. Not huge splashes, but they're not ready to make huge splashes yet. Riley and Tork seem to be coming into their own, the outfield is talented, Skubal is a legit ace in the making, and you have to believe at least one of the other young arms (Mize, Olson, Manning) will be a solid mid rotation guy.
They still need some help in the infield, especially with the travesty of that Baez contract, but do have some young options coming up there too as well, especially 3B.
With the weak AL Central I think the Tigers could put themselves in a position to contend for it this year. Not saying they will, but Tigers baseball is getting back to worth watching again imo.
December 27th, 2023 at 9:13 AM ^
Favorite moments?
Prince blocks Reggie Miller in game two of 2004 ECF aka 'Guaransheed'
Pistons win at Miami in game seven of the 2005 ECF
Detroit five game sweep over the Lakers in the 2004 finals (how has it been 20 years this June??)
Pistons win at New Jersey in game six of 2004 ECSF to extend their season
December 27th, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^
Five game sweep?
December 27th, 2023 at 1:27 PM ^
You must not have been following the team at the time. That proposition is a given for fans of the Pistons of that era.
December 27th, 2023 at 1:31 PM ^
I was hoping someone would respond "Forget it. He's rolling".
December 27th, 2023 at 5:41 PM ^
I remember Darko coming in as the human victory cigar lol
December 27th, 2023 at 9:15 AM ^
Look at what the Orlando Magic has done. They have an uber-young roster and are currently in fourth place in the East and first in the SE. Franz is 22, Caleb is 20 (WTF???), Paolo is 21. The team is set up for years if they can manage their payroll. Franz is earning $5.5M and is due for a big lift next year. Cole Anthony is 29 and brings veteran leadership to the team as the PG while Jalen Suggs is still 25. Mo is 29 after being drafted in 2018 and is the fifth leading scorer on the team.
The Magic was a joke for years and their drafting didn't appear to be improving the team, but guess what? They were in it for the long haul and now have a solid roster.
December 27th, 2023 at 10:30 AM ^
It's the Michigan Difference... Franz, Mo, Caleb and Jett. I was really indifferent to the Magic since moving down here, but now they are my second team behind the sad sack Pistons because of their drafting Michigan players. They had Iggy and Teske for a spell too.
December 27th, 2023 at 10:53 AM ^
I went to the Wiz-Magic game last night. All 4 Wolverines were on the floor at the same time for substantial stretches (Jett is in the G League). Franz, JP, and Mo played great, while Houstan stood in the corner doing nothing. You know, the usual. Franz is really amazing. After the opening minutes when it seemed like Banchero was going to be the Magic's primary offensive initiator, the Magic had Franz dribbling the ball up court on what seemed like a majority of possessions, and he was the primary initiator for about 3 quarters. Really impressive performance. Watching Mo and Franz work together is pure Colombian awesome. JP looked like JP -- at times unstoppable on offense, other times pretty lackadaisical. JP seemed to really shine when he was shooting over the Wagners. Sometimes it seemed like he held the ball a second longer just to let one of them get in his face. All in all, a very fun game for a Michigan fan.
December 27th, 2023 at 10:54 AM ^
Yeah people satisfied with a single thing aside lucking into lottery with Cade need to go look at how pathetic our rebuild is vs Orlando, Okla City, and Houston. Those are fun young teams. Detroit is not.
December 27th, 2023 at 11:53 AM ^
Jalen Suggs is 22 years old and Cole Anthony is 23
December 27th, 2023 at 3:45 PM ^
I don't know where you got these ages lol. You are correct that Franz is 22 and Banchero is 21. Caleb is 21, not 20. Cole Anthony is 23, not 29 and only in his 4th NBA season. Jalen Suggs is 22, not 25. Mo is 26, not 29. The Magic are one of the youngest teams in the NBA, younger than the Pistons in fact.
December 27th, 2023 at 9:24 AM ^
Late last season I was under the impression that they were primed to take some steps forward, towards being a potential playoff team this season. What happened?
December 27th, 2023 at 9:26 AM ^
Whole front office needs to go. That means Weaver, Tellem, Stefanski. Gores somehow needs to get the fuck out of his own way and hire baseketball people. Ideally, he would sell the team but he's a scumbag, so that's not happening. Trade Cade for whatever value you can get. Tear down and rebuild from scratch.
December 27th, 2023 at 9:28 AM ^
Congratulations!
December 27th, 2023 at 10:14 AM ^
hey, the red baron is about to take you out so maybe you should be nicer to the piston fans...
December 27th, 2023 at 9:35 AM ^
I'm not a Pistons fan, not even an NBA fan, but at a certain point you have to sit there and wonder if these guys have frankly just quit on the season and mailed it in?
This is not a situation where you've got an FCS team playing a P5 team every week so there are built-in excuses of "we have a massive talent disparity, we don't have the depth that the big boys have, you can't realistically ask us to compete with these guys" etc. At the end of the day, the Pistons are still professional basketball players like everyone else in the NBA.
Have these guys just quit? If so, do I really want ANY of them around when a new regime inevitably comes in next year? To lose 27 in a row, I don't care who you are, what league you play in. To me, that is a sign that your team has just quit and on some level, doesn't care anymore.
December 27th, 2023 at 9:42 AM ^
I've watched most of the season. They play hard, but the roster construction is atrocious. A lot of guys who can't shoot to save their lives, bigs who have no idea what they're doing or can't play like bigs are supposed to because they're undersized. Cade is being overused and isn't a true #1 option but he's being relied on like he is. Like, they're atrociously bad as a basketball in terms of actual talent and roster construction. I don't think I've ever seen a team so poorly constructed in terms of pieces that just don't fit together or do basketball very well.
December 27th, 2023 at 10:56 AM ^
They haven't quit - but it has to be a mental strain. They don't do a good job of playing defense - either the guys are young or old and bad at defense (Bogi).
They actually came out with a huge start yesterday and played emotional physical and DEFENSE. When they got punched in the mouth they came back again. That hasn't happened a lot this season.
They are not a good offensive team combined with an awful defensive team is the issue. They are giving up something like 120 a night. They don't have the shooters to offset that. A team like Indiana is similar in defense but has some rock star offensive players. (good teams are around 108-112)
December 27th, 2023 at 9:41 AM ^
I was 0-1 years old during the bad boys championships, so I have to go with the '04 season. Favorite moment was definitely the Tayshaun Prince block on Reggie Miller.
December 27th, 2023 at 10:52 AM ^
These are the new Bad Boys
December 27th, 2023 at 9:59 AM ^
Sell the team!
December 27th, 2023 at 10:46 AM ^
This team is not showing they will be able to win 4 games all season. If they go 4-78, then that is the worst Detroit team of all-time. The 0-16 Lions were horrible, but not as bad as an NBA team going 4-78.
December 27th, 2023 at 10:51 AM ^
If they hadn't started off 2-1, they'd could still Shoot-the-Moon to win the NBA Championship.
December 27th, 2023 at 11:26 AM ^
Troy Weaver has a worse winning percentage as GM than Matt Millen.
Let that sink in.