OT: Highlights of SDSU's 35-14 win v. Navy in 2010 Poinsetta Bowl
(posting from iphone so I can't embed)
January 6th, 2011 at 11:31 AM ^
I'm going to go out on a limb and say Hoke wouldn't be the worst hire ever, but he wouldn't be any better than RR. So in that case, if we picked Hoke, why wouldn't we just stay with RR and bring in a defensive staff instead of restructuring our offense again?
January 6th, 2011 at 11:51 AM ^
But I think it's at least possible that Brandon presented that course of action to Rodriguez, but Rich rejected it either because of loyalty to his staff or resentment at the degree of leverage the AD's office would have on his coaching decisions. It seemed to me that this topic might have been one reason their meeting was so eternally long.
January 6th, 2011 at 11:55 AM ^
Well if that was the case, then Brandon had to do what he had to do. Although he should have, maybe he does but it doesn't look it, had a plan in place instead of pinning all our hopes on boy wonder from Stanford. I can't believe RR would go down for GERG though, I am guessing you mean his cronies on the defensive staff supposedly under GERG?
January 6th, 2011 at 12:49 PM ^
I'm thinking of Gibson, most specifically. I also think that just the principle of getting marching orders from the AD as to staff decisions might be a tough pill to swallow for a head coach.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:08 PM ^
that RR was stubborn or had blinders on when addressing the defense and special teams staff and his refusal to fix this over 3 years = poor management and an intractable situation.
RR probably told the AD "Just wait it will get better" and Brandon wanted a more concrete plan.
January 6th, 2011 at 2:17 PM ^
DB is RR's boss and like it or not he has/had the power to fire the entire defensive staff and hire their replacements. It's certainly not the preferred course of action, but if RR was offered that option only a fool would not have taken it and used DB as cover for getting a new staff.
I cannot possibly imagine that RR would have ever thought that the defense would have turned around after 3 years of DOOM with those on staff.
January 6th, 2011 at 11:31 AM ^
Not saying that's not true, but can someone point me to examples of other coaches/CFB folk speaking highly of him? What, specifically, is he supposed to be good at?
Also, I'm sure it's been mentioned, but Ball State went 2-10 the year after he left. One of the wins was a 2-point victory over Eastern.
January 6th, 2011 at 11:35 AM ^
There is a "what people are saying" link that will take you to quotes from Carr, Tressel, and John Harbaugh in praise of Hoke.
As to Ball State collapsing after Hoke left, does that mean that he built a weak foundation or that he was the major force that led an otherwise weak program to a 12-2 record? I'm not arguing either way. I think it's a glass-is-half-full/glass-is-half-empty situation.
January 6th, 2011 at 11:43 AM ^
Since they never came close to equalling that 12 win season in his first five and immediately fell off afterward, I'm inclined to believe that was a severe outlier (perhaps a stronger than usual senior class by MAC standards) than the sign of a guy building a strong program, especially considering that one of his assistants (former Michigan OC Stan Parrish) took over for the implosion and got fired two years later.
To me it looks like Hoke has just been very good at managing his career (he left BSU right on time and walked into a nice roster situation that Chuck Long had set up at SDSU and is getting all the credit).
A buddy of mine is convinced he will take the Michigan job, have two strong seasons with Rodriguez's freshmen/sophomores as juniors/seniors, then bail for a $10 million deal in the NFL right before U-M returns to mediocrity.
January 6th, 2011 at 11:59 AM ^
Ball State's QB (Nate Davis) left for the NFL draft and was replaced by a senior who rode the bench behind Davis, who barely threw the ball (just over 100 attempts for the season), and who completed less than 50 percent of his passes that year. In other words -- Hoke chose an opportune time to jump ship from Ball State.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:45 PM ^
Hoke would have stayed if the university prez came up with 700k guaranteed. She didn't like Hoke and only came up with an offer after he presented her with SDSU's offer. They offered 700k guaranteed - base & radio, etc.
The b*tch running BSU offered him basically what he was already making, plus 350k-ish of incentives of varying attainability. It was a BS offer designed for CYA, so she'd look like she cared.
So Stan Parrish got the nod and lost to Tulsa 45-13 - nowhere near as close as the score indicated - in a game where the line was something like -1.5. Davis could see where the program was headed and got out.
And the next year the team stunk because Stan Parrish is 25 years past his sell-by date as an HC.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:39 PM ^
I'd think the very definition of coaching genius is one who can make a silk purse out of a cow's ear.
January 6th, 2011 at 11:44 AM ^
I can't create a thread right now but this article in my hometown paper about Steven Kampfer visiting an injured high school hockey player is pretty good:
http://www.milforddailynews.com/highlight/x1401026775/Milford-hockey-pl…
January 6th, 2011 at 11:45 AM ^
I'm scouring the internets looking for highlights of Hoke's fourth year, 5-7 campaign in the rapid "turnaround" of Ball State. Can Lloyd Carr help a Michigan Man out?
January 6th, 2011 at 11:45 AM ^
People on this blog will talk themselves into Hoke. Look, it's already happening.
Bottom line is the guy had a HECK of a bowl game against a team that OBLITERATED a Missouri team in a bowl game the previous season. That is impressive and will be the basis of when I talk myself into Hoke (still hasn't happened).
Of course there's the whole "52 years old, hasn't coached at a major university, had 4 shitty years before finally doing something.... at Ball State, and even ESPN is ripping on him in the Insider article on Michigan's coaching search". So.... yeah.
January 6th, 2011 at 11:54 AM ^
Regarding his 4 shitty years at Ball State, we may be able to chalk that up to the fact that he was still learning how to be a head coach. Looking at the past 4 years, it looks like he's got it pretty well figured out now.
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<br>The other thing I like about him is that M doesn't JUST need someone who can recruit and call plays, but someone who can walk into a bad situation and turn it around. Hoke has shown an ability to do that at 2 different schools in the past 8 years.
January 6th, 2011 at 11:57 AM ^
and then being decent for one and good for another doesn't mean you've "turned a program around."
It means you sucked for 4 years.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:03 PM ^
Winning 12 games out of the blue and then bailing along with your NFL draft pick at QB only to watch one of your assistants win 2 games the next year and 4 the year after that doesn't sound like the work of someone who "built" anything. It sounds like a coach who had one good year and got out while the getting was good.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:17 PM ^
Wow. That description sounds like one that could very well turn out to apply to someone else we know.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:27 PM ^
Harbaugh just won a BCS bowl game in year 4. Hoke lost to freaking Buffalo in the MAC Championship game, then quit for SDSU in year 6.
Harbaugh has also recruited at a high level for the past few seasons and had two different Heisman Trophy runners up (not exactly a one man team). If they win two games next year with one of his assistants at the helm I will eat my shoe.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:49 PM ^
So then you're standard for whether Hoke can coach is whether he could win a BCS bowl while at Ball freakin' State?
January 6th, 2011 at 1:01 PM ^
My standard for whether or not he should be hired at the University of Michigan as the new head football coach is (which is the real question): Has he done anything to merit getting the job in his time as a college head coach?
Answers: Record (losing record over 8 seasons, more losing seasons than winning seasons), program building (had one good year at BSU and bailed right before they went back into the toilet), bowl wins (beat Navy in his home stadium), conference championships (in his best season at BSU he got smoked in the MAC Championship game by a Buffalo team with a much poorer record)
Let me ask you: What has Brady Hoke ever done as a head coach to indicate he is a better option than the guy we just fired, much less the best possible candidate in the country?
January 6th, 2011 at 1:40 PM ^
Well, about that Buffalo game. Buff had 3.7 ypr and 7.1 ypp. BSU had 3.7 ypr and 7.3 ypp. Buffs had a 74 yard fumble return for a TD. AND a 92-yard fumble return for a TD.
Maybe what *you're* smoking has you confused.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:47 PM ^
"It sounds like a coach who had one good year and got out while the getting was good."
If it sounds like that to you then you need a hearing aid along with that drum of thorazine.
January 6th, 2011 at 2:17 PM ^
You are Brady himself, you aren't his cousin at all. That is the only explanation.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:04 PM ^
Exactly. Ball St. was .500 when Hoke inherited them. The next four years (under Hoke) were each under .500, including a 2 win season. Season five, he was half a game above .500. That just does not mean "turnaround" in my book. It's like saying Schiano has turned Rutgers into one of the elite superpowers in the BCS. That's just not what those words mean.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:07 PM ^
Well, let's look at those past four years now that he's "figured it out" -- includes the 7-6 season just before his one break-out year at Ball State (including a bowl game drubbing in which his team allowed 52 points -- sound familiar?), and the 4-8 season his first year at San Diego State (a whopping two-game improvement over the 2-10 team he took over). Yeah, he's firing on all cylinders now . . . .
January 6th, 2011 at 12:03 PM ^
I like Hoke. And, the line of former UM players who would run through a wall for him is both long and famous. He had his hand in recruiting and coaching a lot of great Michigan players.
I do think he resume is a bit overrated. At Ball State, like many do in the MAC, he rode a hotshot QB to a great record, but didnt really leave much for his successor. But, that's kind of how things go in the MAC. You get a QB that can dominate and you win. You're average in an even league otherwise
As for SDSU, I predicted his success more than a year ago at the JCB in one of my first posts over there. But, they didnt come through and had a losing record. Chuck Long really left him in good position to succeed immediately.
Give Hoke credit for picking up those pieces and cobbling together a winner. I feel Chuck Long would have seen this success at SDSU as well had they not lost patience. In a way, Hoke would be facing the same situation here.
Somebody is winning with our players. Why not a guy who just proved he could win with an up and coming roster that somebody left him.
Who knows if he'll work out. Or even get hired. But, it would realy tick me off if this blog and its community does to Hoke what we kept howling the rest of the world was doing to Rodriguez.
So, stop with the hate already. He knows more about football and coaching than any of us on this blog. Period. End of story. It doesnt matter how many UFRs you read or write
January 6th, 2011 at 12:13 PM ^
So that's it? Debate over? We aren't allowed to air grievances about Hoke against other candidates available? Everyone wanted to talk about CC the whole damn year, but now we should stop? I don't hate Hoke, but I definetly don't think he is the best option out there. Hoke is a tough guy, he can handle it. He isn't even our coach, he doesn't need protected yet. If he does become our coach......I'll back him, but I don't see him being any better than RR with a revamped defensive staff. No one should be hated on(i.e.- His mother walks on her hands and has no elbows, but criticism should be allowed i.e.- I don't think we should risk our program on a man that took five years to turn around Ball State when we only gave RR three).
January 6th, 2011 at 12:38 PM ^
was referencing his knowledge of football and how to coach compared to you, me, Brian and everyone else. Except Magnus. He's a rock star coach
Brian is already stoking the flames of hate for this guy. And that makes me sad, considering his rightful defense of Rodriguez against the hate thrown to him
It will make me sad if this blog crucifies him upon hiring.
Speaking of debate, can you have that when you're contstantly putting pictures of explosions into threads you dont like?
January 6th, 2011 at 12:44 PM ^
Rodriguez was actually the coach at Michigan. He also had (and still does have) a winning record as a college head coach.
Arguing that Brandon would be insane to hire Hoke (not a difficult case to make) is not the same as hating Hoke (nor is a humorous claim that Charles Barkley should instead be hired, made only to illustrate the point).
Love you, Brady Hoke. But please stay at SDSU. Or better yet, get a nice cushy AQ job in the new Pac 12 and make loads of cash.
January 6th, 2011 at 2:15 PM ^
Fun fact about Rodriguez's record in the Big East: Bill Stewart went 28-12 in his tenure at WVU, a higher winning percentage than Rodriguez's 60-26. Stewart's Big East record is also better than Rodriguez's.
It doesn't make Hoke a good coach and doesn't excuse his record, but shines some light on the Big East and the level of competition there. You could make the same argument for the MAC and MWC as well.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:53 PM ^
I think Brian and others that seem venemous to you are that way because this school has a lot of money to dole out and it would be a shame if we settled on B-Hoke. If it came down to crunch time, then yea, Hoke is your man, but not until other avenues are pursued. I think there is a fear we might blow our load on Hoke without looking for better options because he is a "Michigan Man" and probably has a lot of donor friends.
I only put up nuclear bombs on excessive CC threads, because I knew after the season, we would have this, plenty of time and more stuff to say then while we were in season with a coach already. Talking about coaching changes mid-way through the season was a little hateful towards RR, don't you think? The guy still had an office in Schembechler Hall.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:54 PM ^
Jamiemac. I'll be nervous as hell and a bit disappointed if we hire Hoke, but I think there's a chance he could succeed if given the opportunity.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:14 PM ^
Looks to me like the "hate" is actually analysis of the performance of the teams he has coached. That's pretty much the opposite of what Rodriguez faced when he walked in the door at Michigan -- forget his track record, let's talk about his WVU buyout clause, his document shredding, his "win at all costs" attitude in recruiting Justin Feagin, his mistreatment of players with all that extra practice . . . shall I go on? Until Hoke is actually hired, it's fair game to question whether he's the right choice by looking at his coaching resume to date, isn't it?
January 6th, 2011 at 12:41 PM ^
The rhetoric from Brian and the community has been a pretty good start down that road
January 6th, 2011 at 12:20 PM ^
The "turnaround" Hoke is getting credit for at SDSU amounts to things like inheriting a highly rated (by MWC standards) QB who had already started as a freshman and is now thriving as a junior in year two under Hoke. I remember another portly fellow who was able to have immediate success after a proven college coach (and Chuck Long was an elite OC with Oklahoma) recruited a strong team but never got to coach them as juniors/seniors. I think he worked at some Catholic school down in Indiana. Vague recollection, not entirely clear, but I seem to remember something like that happening.
January 6th, 2011 at 1:02 PM ^
"Vague recollection, not entirely clear, but I seem to remember something like that happening."
I'm guessing most of your recollections are vague.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:54 PM ^
"I do think he resume is a bit overrated. At Ball State, like many do in the MAC, he rode a hotshot QB to a great record, but didnt really leave much for his successor."
So then if Bill Belichick gets run over by a beer truck tomorrow and Rich Kotite is hired the day after and the Patriots immediately fall to pieces would you say Belichick didn't leave much for his successor?
Because while Hoke is no Belichick, Parrish isn't much better than Kotite.
January 6th, 2011 at 1:11 PM ^
He was Michigan's offensive coordinator during a national championship season and an Orange Bowl winning season. He was also the offensive coordinator at Ball State for Hoke's three best seasons on the job and his only good one.
Acting like he is some bumbling idiot but Brady Hoke exhibits signs of "coaching genius" as you suggested in an earlier post puts you in the running for the title of "Dumbest MGoBlog User."
I can't wait until the neg button starts working again.
January 6th, 2011 at 1:27 PM ^
I think DeBord was the O's head man for the title year.
I didn't say Hoke was a coaching genius. I said that one might define coaching genius as one who can make a silk purse of a sow's ear.
I hope the neg button works again too; getting negged by you would be a badge of honor.
January 6th, 2011 at 2:43 PM ^
Doesn't this suggest that you think Bill Stewart is a coaching genius.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:15 PM ^
In case anyone cares, ESPN is blowing up MGoBlog on its Insider pages by referencing it a couple of times, this time... right at the beginning of the note:
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncf/features/rumors/_/date/20110105#6055
Gary Patterson? I'd be happy.
January 6th, 2011 at 2:30 PM ^
Me likey
January 6th, 2011 at 12:16 PM ^
... I understand the passion, but we must keep perspective. David Brandon is better at making tough personel decisions than probably anybody on this board. He has more experience and more success in these endeavors.
As a citizen of this fine country of ours, you have the right to voice your displeasure with him and potential coaching candidates, but let us not lose sight of the fact that we all share the same goal. If hiring Hoke gets us closest to winning the Big 10, than we should hire Hoke. If Harbaugh is the man, and Harbaugh wants to be the man, we should hire Harbaugh. Brandon is doing everything in his power to make this program a success. While his tactics may not at this time seem rational to some, I doubt we have even the slightest awareness of the facts that have brought us to this point. Without those facts, the opinions we form are based on dodgy reporting and second and third hand sources. We should not be so moved by the ink that spills off the pen of those who purport to know more than the AD, when surely they do not.
David Brandon is clear in his goal, and he will make the decision that he has been entrusted to make. We, the fanbase, should support him and support the program, lest we lose everything "Michigan" about us.
January 6th, 2011 at 1:10 PM ^
If hiring Hoke gets us closest to winning the Big 10, than we should hire Hoke
If the choice is between my grandma and Hoke, then Hoke gets us closer to wining the B10. If Brandon hires Hike because we truly have no other viable options (whicj would most likely be the case if Hoke were hire) then this is purely a desperation move and evidence of a lack of competence on DB's part. Sure Hoke may be a good coach, but as has been argued on this site multiple times, he has not exactly proven himself against a high level of competition. Recruits will be turned off by such a hire relative to others who have more national name recognition and have been seen to be winners against good teams.
I realize that a lot of the anger on this site is based on irrational fears and lack of information. However, that does not mean that these fears are baseless. Until Brandon shows us that he has not screwed this up royally (by hiring Hoke, the lowest hanging fruit be almost everybody's estimation), then we will all be afraid. If DB brings in a decent coach (Harbaugh, Patterson, Mullen, even freaking Tommy Tuberville), then I am sure all of us will eat our words to a certain extent. In the meanwhile, given the scope of our knowledge, it is quite acceptable and normal to doubt DB until we have a little more information. It is hard to have faith in the man just yet.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:18 PM ^
since we can't comment to brian's front page post - anyone know what rivals is saying in their coaching hotboard post?
January 6th, 2011 at 12:21 PM ^
I cannot, but on ESPN Insider its:
Hoke/Miles/Patterson in Group A (most likely)
Peterson/Trgovac/Harbaugh/Whittingham/Gruden in Group B (longer shots)
They are calling Patterson the "dark horse" candidate.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:25 PM ^
MMMMMM. I like me some dark horse.
January 6th, 2011 at 12:47 PM ^
I like me some dark horse.
That's because you've never had "pasty llama".
.
.
and you never will.