The Mike Hart Effect
Mike Hart has been a big part of our turnaround at Michigan so I wanted to look at some of his results over his coaching career. There seems to be a trail of improvement wherever he goes with Indiana and UM being the best examples of the Mike Hart effect.
EMU (3 seasons)
Before (2-22)
During (10-26)
After (3-22)
WMU (2 seasons)
Before (5-19)
During (16-10)
After (19-7) 13-1 season after he left
Syracuse (1 season)
Before (4-8)
During (4-8)
After (4-8)
Indiana (4 seasons)
Before (21-29)
During (24-21)
After (6-18) 25%
Michigan (2 seasons)
Before (11-8)
During (25-3)
UM in Big Ten play
Before (8-7)
During (17-1) 94%
Totals (12 Seasons)
Before (43-86) 33%
During (79-68) 54% - With 10 seasons being at Indiana, EMU, WMU, and Syracuse
After (32-55) 37%
It takes an entire coaching staff for these kinds of results but I have a feeling Mike Hart adds a lot to the locker room, practice, and overall morale of the program. If Moore moves on to a HC position I would be ready to see him in the OC roll.
So the Joe Moore award winning line has nothing to do with it? I am not saying Hart isnt good or isn't a future Head Coach but if Jay stayed at RBs coach we still would have the same record the past 2 years. I don't think you take Hart away and we aren't 25-3 9ver the last 2 years. He doesn't have that type of impact. Also Hart never recruited Corum or Edwards that was other coaches and Jay. But to me you were saying if Hart wasn't here Michigan isn't in the playoffs. Does he help our program alot yes, does he bring good leadership to the RB room yes but a RB coach probably isn't going to win or lose you games. He seems to be good and has done a good job with RBs. Syracuse he had no effect on in one year. Maybe Indiana but it was the offensive coordinator now at Washington that made Indianas offense good. WMU had some good seasons until the last two years so I can't say he affected them one way or another. I never said he hasn't had a positive affect to the team but saying he was the big reason for us making the playoffs the last 2 years is the big reach. We could have had a grad assistant as a RB coach and most likely we are still a playoff team both years. Hart also gets the benefit of having 2 of the best RBs in Michigan history thrown into his lap when he got here. After BC and Edwards leave then we will see really what Hart can do with the RB room.
I dont think you read my original thread or my response above. I think you imagined i praised Hart as the only reason we have been successful these last two seasons. Thats has to be it. There is no other explanation.
Im not disparaging anyone. I stated it takes ALL THE COACHES. You are the only one trying to create a strawman here. Stop putting words in my mouth. HART can be a success AND so can Jay Harbaugh AND so can Moore and the offensive line. When someone is mentioning soneone doing a job well done they dont have to list off each and every person while doing it. This isnt an Oscars award speech for fuck sakes.
That is what I said in everyone of my comments is Hart is a good coach has a positive impact here but to me you were making it seem as if Hart had something to do with us making the playoffs the past 2 years and if we didn't have him then we wouldn't make the playoffs. That was what I got out of it and you continued to get after me saying that he was the reason. All I was saying was in football you have 10 plus coaches and off field assistants and others in the program. There are probably 50 plus people or more involved in the program other than the players. So one position coach wont affect wins and losses. Except special teams because they can 2in games with field goals or field advantage. Look what you say about Hart being good for the program is true and I never doubted that. So base off this last response of you saying we needed other coaches involved is what you should have said first and we wouldn't have a miscommunication. The stars are interesting to but in football you could have many reasons why a team goes from big wins to losses. Quality of players is #1 then coaching etc.
"you were making it seem as if Hart had something to do with us making the playoffs the past 2 years"
I certainly was and he did. You are foolish to think the running coordinator had nothing to do with A Michigan offense and team being successful. You will die alone on that hill.
"if we didn't have him then we wouldn't make the playoffs"
I absolutely did not. You keep trying to draw me into this argument that doesnt exist. Stick to the point above because this is a fairy tale you made up. Not once or ever did I state he is the solo reason for our success youve been trying to make it be about that though in every post.
There is no miscommunication it was a Mike Hart appreciation thread and I dont need to cite the equipment managers impact in my OP. You are having an argument with a point I never made and you wont stop.
Not that you would have that much more work when you set out on the project.
but I wonder how their YPC changed? Fumble rate?
A huge part of Hart's success is Jay's recruiting and stellar O-Line play. He deserves credit and is a stellar coach but the turnaround was way more than Hart.
Agreed. It isnt politics it not all or nothing.
nah, we're 18-0 in big ten play last two years. I'll never count that MSU game as a loss, just another egregious fuckery by the officials in that rivalry. We've lost a couple legit games to them the last 30 years.
Honestly, I'm not so sure Hart is the OC type. I think he's one of those guys who's either a position coach or a head coach, but not a coordinator. That's not a slight to him. I think he will be a head coach one day. I just don't see his personality/qualities fitting the OC role.
Like Jim Harbaugh.
What perceived personality traits/qualities do you base this opinion off of? (Not /s)
He likes to be in charge of shit entirely. Which makes no sense for position coach. So forget it!
Cool analysis! What made you think to look into it?
It isn't that big of a deal. One RB coach isn't going to make a teams record change. Maybe a one game affect over a season but that's about it. A specials teams coach can affect wins or loses more then a RB coach can.
Bad bad take. Running backs are super important. Look at the production of Michigan backs since Mike Hart left. They only had have had good lines and running backs opposite Denard should have done great. Hart coached elite backs at Indiana. Michigan now has elite players at Michigan running. I think this shows a trend that he is a huge factor in getting the most out of a running back. Michigan has struggled to do this for a while.
And it is a symbiotic relationship. A good line makes a running back better, but that only works if the running back has patience and smarts to use the openings that a line has. There are plenty of analysis on backs at Michigan hitting a hole when they should have bounced, or bouncing when they should have hit a hole. The line was still good in giving the running back a hole. Same with passing, good passing opens up the run game, and good running opens up the passing game. Ohio State in a cover 0 made some great passes go the extra mile. You seem to be really worked up about this.
I agree with everything you posted here. What everyone also seems to be forgetting is that Hart is the running game coordinator. The thing that actually makes that UM offense work.
Looking at Corum and Edwards recruiting profile and dismissing them both as "of course they will be 2 of the top 4 running backs in the country" seems odd. We dont have a top 50 receiver and most of what we think of JJ is based on future projections. Minimizing what has developed of our running game and running backs in particular can not be just dismissed with a "yeah Jay wouldve just done the same".
Why couldn't it be you are doing the same thing for Hart. Assuming only Hart could have down this for us at the RB position? Now could he have taught them what he has learned throughout his career yea but doesn't mean Jay couldn't do the same or anyone else. But in saying that we also have to have the best OLine in football the past 2 years to accomplish what we have. It is a team sport.
The question remains is do you think our team would have the same record if Hart was not here? We kept Jay at RB and got another safeties coach. I think we have the same results. As we have 2 of the best RBs in the country who by the way came in as a 5 star and one a top 100 player to go along with the best OLine in the nation 2 years running. You are saying that has nothing to do with our success and it is all Hart? That is what you come back with every time I try and say it is a team effort not one coach.
You can have a great coach and shit for talent and not produce. So Jay didn't have anything to do with the talent brought in and Moore with his Oline being great. Also you can have great talent at RB but the line sucks and you still don't have a ground game. Come on you guys know how football works right. It isn't baseball where individual talent can take away anything the other tem does pitching to you or that pitcher pitching to them. We had bad teams at Michigan until Jim came and saying if Mike Hart was there with Rich Rod and Hoke those teams would be layoff bound or competing for Big Ten titles is just foolish. So if Hart wasn't here Blake and Edwards would not be good players. Get out of here. Hart and whoever came in to take it over when Blake, HH, and Edwards is here would look good no matter what. Give the dam players credit for there hard work. Again I love to talk sports and even debate but at least come with something that is actually sensible.
The goal was a fun appreciation thread about Mike Hart in a time with almost no football threads. Now I see why people dont post. A million responses trying to minimize everything he done seems strange but thats MGOBLOG for you. I needed to make the thread “Mike Hart and 52 other people that have helped him be a success” thats my bad.
Don't worry about all the negativism. This is what fans do...mostly out of abject ignorance and uninformed bias-everyone has an opinion. Since my sophomore year in HS, so 55 years ago, then coaching and officiating at the HS and college level these understandings have continued to be confirmed.
From the best I can tell, Michigan's recent success is very directly related to the core of assistants who have come on board the past 3-4 years. From the outside looking in, it is impossible to know exactly who and what is driving this little bus but Hart, Moore and Bellamy began the transition and Elston and Clinkscale added to the mass of the group...and it continues to grow. Individually these coaches know the game very well and cooperatively there is a catalytic effect that is elevating what is happening here. It is also unclear exactly what level of credit Jim holds here-it sure seems as though brother John and whomever else had some critical input to factors that changed the course of Michigan football quite dramatically-"everything" about this program has changed over the past two seasons. Word on the street is that Biff was a significant player in setting Jim/Michigan on this better path as well. Regardless, every year is a new year...and this year, while holding great promise, will demand great execution/performance to realize the potential it holds.
Excellent post! So much good info in there all the way to Biff being a huge influence on the program as well.
I wasn't trying to be negative but he made it seem like Michigan wouldn't have success if Hart wasn't here. I agreed with him that Hart is a valuable asset and great for the team but After we went 2and 4 Jim overhauled the whole team and that is where the success came from when Aidan came back etc. Having a Joe Moore award winning line and good RBs equals success and that is on Moore and Hart. Then you add in our defense and everything else and it is a whole team affect. Football is the most team sport there is and both sides of the ball have to be good to compete. That's how football is. All the OP had to say when I made my first comment was I didn't mean Hart was the whole reason for success and it would have been over but he continued to make a case that it is why we have been successful the last two years. There is a way bigger picture at hand when it comes to football
Look I feel the same way when I post here. All I was saying is you made it seem like Hart was responsible for us being a playoff team. You could have easily said Hart has gotten the best out of our great RB and elevated them up to Heisman contenders. That is all I am saying and I have mentioned in numerous posts how great Hart is and he is good for our program. Now if Hart wasn't a Michigan alum and great player this would not be a discussion I bet.
All I was saying is you made it seem like Hart was responsible for us being a playoff team.
Nope this is a lie. I honestly dont think you read anything I even wrote and especially not the OP you first responded to. I knew I never shouldve responded to your bait and even post anything about his successes at U of M. I shouldve known it would get twisted into "you said Hart is the only reason we made the playoff" and so it did.
I needed to make the thread “Mike Hart and 52 other people that have helped him be a success” thats my bad.
Stay healthy, Mike. Eat Hart smart.