Interesting Discussion with a Pro Scout
I was recently on a flight to Texas and sat next to one of the lead national scouts for the San Diego Chargers. He had just completed a brief visit to some Michigan schools, including UM, MSU and Central Mich. We had a great conversation, and he was eager to get my take on future Michigan players worth keeping an eye on. This guy was also part of the Miami Dolphins and was involved with bringing Henne and Long to the Dolphins shortly before joining the Chargers. Here are some items of note from our discussion that afternoon(NOTE: I am not implying this is profound or unique insight, but I thought it was worth sharing):
- Aside from the seniors of the 2007 team, this year's team is the first he has seen in the last 2-3 years he would consider a "Michigan team". He said it was clear that there was nothing behind the seniors in 2007...he feels the ground work has been laid to bring Michigan back to where we should be
- He said Rich Rod was one of his favorite coaches, and he has a great relationship with pro scouts (unlike the HC from East Lansing who was more "closed off" and didn't seem "welcoming"). He has always been impressed with RRod's offenses and expects great things from Michigan in the near future. He said RRod is such a great guy, really fun to talk to, and even more fun to listen to.
- Robinson's defenses have always been a "bend don't break" style that simply count on the opposing offense to make enough mistakes for your offense to outscore them. He felt Robinson was very gifted at player development, even though his schemes are often too passive
- They are very interested in Denard, but not as a quarterback...he commented on his speed, but noted that his height is definitely exaggerated (surprise, surprise)
- He asked if I knew much about Mike Barwis (to which I responded he is the only person capable of beating Chuck Norris in a fight)...he said Barwis has done amazing things for this program, and Barwis' abilities/expertise is legendary even among the professional ranks
- He knew Steve Schilling personally and was keeping a very close eye on his progress. He also commented how Mike Martin looked like a beast (tell us something we don't know)
- He felt MSU didn't look like a solid program on the whole...there were some athletes who were on the radar, but nothing special.
To avoid becoming annoying, I turned the conversation to discuss his travel schedule, family, etc., but it was cool to see his notes about different players he had been scouting, and what he sees for their professional potential. It was also nice to speak with a qualified and unbiased spectator who sees the same potential and excitement that many of us are seeing with this team.
GO BLUE!
September 23rd, 2010 at 12:02 AM ^
Good to know that RR has a good relationship with pro scouts. That has to be a selling point for recruits. (Dee Hart, I hope you read this thread)
September 23rd, 2010 at 12:34 PM ^
It is very interesting to hear that Coach Rod has a good reputation with the scouts, especially given the issues with scouts on campus (see Nick Saban's temper-tantrum). Similar to the kill-em with kindness saying, I think its probably better to be respected among the scouts rather than closed off, for numerous reasons - attractive to recruits who all want to play in the NFL, helps current players take the next step, and maybe helps keep unauthorized contact with players to a minimum?
September 23rd, 2010 at 1:05 PM ^
Saban's comments were directed at agents, not scouts. It's the agents you hear about having improper contact with athletes, since the agent can directly profit off of them for their whole NFL career, but the scout just reports back on which guys to pick.
September 23rd, 2010 at 12:04 AM ^
Not surprised re: Denard (height being an issue at QB) - did he discuss what he'd eye DR for at the next level (I realize DR is only a sophomore, so this is very premature) - one assumes the same position that Meyer and other CFB coaches recruited him for (CB)?
September 23rd, 2010 at 12:08 AM ^
It'd be hard for DR to play CB in the NFL is he hasn't had experience in college...I see him as a ninja slot guy.
September 23rd, 2010 at 12:10 AM ^
Not surprisingly, he mentioned DRob as a slot receiver...size is certainly a concern, but his speed is obviously a tremendous asset.
He had also not heard of DG, which I guess makes sense as he is on the opposite side of the spectrum. However, I told him to leave DG alone until we were done with him...sometime after 2013.
He was also quite familiar with the Forciers. He suggested that Tate learn (which I think he has done) to be a team player and be prepared to serve in backup duty when called to do so. Otherwise, his best option would be looking at starting for some 1-AA program somewhere.
September 23rd, 2010 at 12:19 AM ^
I think Tate could start at 80% of FBS schools.
September 23rd, 2010 at 1:16 AM ^
If he's good enough to start at an NCAA school such as Michigan, doesn't that imply he could start at 100% of FBS schools?
September 23rd, 2010 at 2:37 AM ^
Uh, he isnt currently starting this year though so he's already below 100%. He also wouldnt start at Nebraska, Stanford, Washington, Arkansas, Alabama, Ohio State, etc.
80% sounds correct or even generous. If you honestly think Tate could beat out any of the top-20 QBs for their job currently then you should probably meet up with Lou Holtz for lunch to discuss the virtues of being a huge homer.
For the record I think you may be confused as you reference NCAA and FBS as different.
FBS = mainstream programs like Michigan.
FCS= Umass, Villanova, App State, etc.
September 23rd, 2010 at 8:11 AM ^
Yep, my mistake. Switched FBS and FCS meanings by accident. Why couldn't we just stick with I-A and I-AA?
September 23rd, 2010 at 11:55 AM ^
Tate may not be able to start at 80% of the schools right now but Locker won't be at Washington next year and Pryor and Mallett won't be at their schools in two years. Tate could start almost anywhere eventually. Penn State might be somepace that he couldn't because Bolden is a freshman but then again he might be able to beat out Bolden.
September 23rd, 2010 at 10:05 AM ^
I see Denard potentially become a Josh Cribbs-type player in the NFL, utilizing his speed on kickoff and maybe punt returns before he learns a little bit more playing WR. If he can stay healthy I think he could certainly see a team draft him in the mid-rounds with the idea of putting his speed to use on returns.
September 23rd, 2010 at 1:17 AM ^
Scouts often have divergent views on different players. For instance most scouts thought Seneca Wallace (Iowa State) was too short to play NFL QB. He is around 5'10". Most scouts predicted that he would have to switch positions in the NFL. But one scout saw things differently and guess what.... Wallace has been playing NFL QB for quite a few years now and proving all doubters wrong.
Denard is very accurate as a passer. Has a gun and runs like a deer. And from personal accounts of his size, most say that he is atleast 5'11". But even if he is shorter (which I doubt) there will be an NFL team out there (much like there was with Wallace, Tebow, and few others) that will see his potential at QB (ironically, much like RR did) and give him his shot there..... and he is likely to impress. Being made of delithium and all, I would never bet against Denard.
...
September 23rd, 2010 at 8:59 AM ^
neither would i, however in the nfl i don't think he'd be able to throw the ball over the offensive line. The deep ball has to be solid for the QB in the NFL and they can't be floaters. I think DRob will play slot in the pros. WR's with QB experience have an advantage when it comes to necessary knowledge for route running. Who knows though, you could be right and DRob could prove the doubters wrong, yet again.
September 23rd, 2010 at 9:39 AM ^
How much taller is an NFL O-line than our current O-line (Molk aside). Also, Denard has demonstrated a decent deep ball several times this season and I anticipate his passing will improve as he gains additional game experience and coaching since he's only a sophomore at this point.
September 23rd, 2010 at 12:17 AM ^
Interesting conversation, but next time paragraph breaks pls
September 23rd, 2010 at 12:39 AM ^
Sorry..despite my efforts to do so (appears accurate in Preview Mode) the formatting goes away when I actually save/post. Suggestions?
September 23rd, 2010 at 2:28 AM ^
you may need to put <p> and then hit return after each paragraph break you want, despite the presentation in your comment box.
I have to do this at work due to the fact that I'm not permitted to download upgrades for software, including Firefox, so I'm slowly getting left behind the rest of the internet (Youtube has "no longer supported" my browser version for months)
September 23rd, 2010 at 2:42 AM ^
Percy Harvin
I believe in his QB skills, but I don't think NFL teams will. Nonetheless, if Matt Jones can play WR in the NFL, then so can Denard.
September 23rd, 2010 at 8:04 AM ^
Chris Johnson
September 23rd, 2010 at 1:37 AM ^
The scout is spot on about GRob and his bend but don't break defensive scheme. You see alot of the elite defenses in the FBS do not employ that stragety. I'm hoping that once we have the depth and experience on our defense that GERG stops being so passive and starts dialing up the blitzes and the pressure from all angles. Offense wins games but defenses win championships and every defense that has won the past decade has been a physical unit that puts a lot of pressure on the offense through blitzing, stunting, and gap explosion.
September 23rd, 2010 at 1:44 AM ^
Am I the only one that just flat-out doesn't like this quote?
"Robinson's defenses have always been a "bend don't break" style that simply count on the opposing offense to make enough mistakes for your offense to outscore them."
Yep, it's true. And yep, not a fan. While this offense is definitely capable of doing that, I can't think of any reason why it's ideal to approach it this way. Sorry, Gerg.
September 23rd, 2010 at 3:35 AM ^
Until we have cornerbacks that can shut down opponents in man coverage, this seems like a pretty good approach.
September 23rd, 2010 at 8:22 AM ^
Our defense is bend but don't break in order for the offense to have some time to rest on the sidelines
Running 70 yards to hug a teammate after a big play can make a guy tired
September 23rd, 2010 at 6:17 AM ^
September 23rd, 2010 at 7:14 AM ^
For now, I don't mind this philosophy. Some of our LB's have a hard time filling the correct gap(s) as it is, I wouldn't want to imagine them blitzing into the wrong spot.
September 23rd, 2010 at 6:56 AM ^
....the lay down and play dead type of defense! :)
September 23rd, 2010 at 7:54 AM ^
Derp derpity derp
September 23rd, 2010 at 7:56 AM ^
thanks for sharing tex... it made my morning on many fronts. first, i just adore the chargers and the type of player his boss aj smith drafts.
i didn't realize that these pro scouts know the college teams collectively, instead of just the individual players.
reading this i also felt a slight twinge, b/c i have thought when coach rod leaves the program hopefully at least ten years from now, that he will try his hand in the nfl. note that rod would be still relatively young, and the first michigan head coach to continue head coaching elsewhere if this in fact happens. but i digress....
did the scout many any references to rod being a good pro coach?
did he have any thoughts on taylor lewan? am curious on this one b/c it would truly show the level of depth these scouts have.
thanks.
September 23rd, 2010 at 8:55 AM ^
We did talk briefly about RRod at the next level, but nothing really insightful. He is convinced that RRod will be successful at Michigan, and after watching practice felt his time for success would come sooner than later.
Initially, he didn't mention Lewan, but referenced a monster left tackle getting reps with the ones and twos. He also seemed quite shocked to learn he was a Freshman.
September 23rd, 2010 at 8:44 AM ^
necesssarily a bad thing. The naysayers will make of big deal of this. However, in the end a spot is opened up for someone that could be better and really wants to attend a great university. Go Blue.
September 23rd, 2010 at 9:59 AM ^
Decommits aren't necessarily bad.
Transfers are a different story. Especially at this point in Michigan's program, any kid transferring hurts our APR severely and could cause our program even more trouble. I couldn't care less about Dewayne Peace or Jordan Barnes or Christian Wilson decommitting. But the Justin Turner/Austin White/etc. BS really annoys me.
September 23rd, 2010 at 9:02 AM ^
Well this version of the 3-3-5 is nothing like the 3-3-5 that they ran at West Virginia. They attacked the QB a lot more out of this base at WVU. I am holding out faith that when they have a back 7/8 that they feel comfortable in, we will start seeing how it is supposed to be run. My feeling on the defense as a whole is if they were married to the 3-3-5 from the beginning that they should have paid the cost to make it more appealing to Jeff Casteel to make the move with Rich from the jump. We would have probably been further along on D, as opposed to the 3 years in, and still seems like we are running in quick sand trying to get a defense built. We would have avoided the D-Coordinator, and scheme carousel at the very least. I am sure GERG has ran parts of it before at some point, and can teach it just fine, I hope he can anyway, but Jeff Casteel knows it backwards and forwards, and the transition would have been more seamless. At least in my opinion.
September 23rd, 2010 at 9:46 AM ^
I'm curious as to what pro scouts think of him. Very highly touted/physically gifted player. I would guess 4-5th rd pick. Does that sound accurate to everyone? Even if you thought Schilling was a very solid pro prospect, Guards typically don't go that high anyway. I know a team like the Jets, who traditionally like drafting UM players (D Harris, Askew, Hobson) would like a new guard next season.
September 23rd, 2010 at 10:48 AM ^
Thanks for the thread. Kewl to read.
no potato salad for you!
September 23rd, 2010 at 11:16 AM ^
I understand about the height issues for Denard, but what about Vick. He's listed at 6 foot, what maybe a inch taller than Denard.
September 23rd, 2010 at 12:15 PM ^
In my 10 years as a season ticket holder, I've refused to purchase a Chargers jersey, because to my recollection (qualifier), they have not drafted anyone from Michigan. Once they do, I'll buy a damn jersey!
September 23rd, 2010 at 12:22 PM ^
Lightly off the UM topic, but you said he stopped at Central Michigan too? Was there any talk or notes about Nick Bellore the MLB at CMU? Would be interested to hear a Pro scouting report. Interestingly he went to the same small HS as our new Punter. Its a small school and it has been churning out D1 talent at a remarkable rate the last couple years.
September 23rd, 2010 at 12:41 PM ^
Unfortunately I don't have any info on CMU. He was actually putting his notes on the CMU team into his computer as we were talking. As I don't know much about CMU (and it was clear I was all blue) we really didn't discuss their Central.
September 23rd, 2010 at 1:12 PM ^
That was really good. Thanks a lot for sharing!
Did he give you any more insight on the great things he saw for the program and time frames?
September 23rd, 2010 at 3:38 PM ^
to hear about his opinion about Pryor's NFL potential as a QB which I think isn't much because his arm isn't all that good. Pryor seems more like a WR than a QB to me.