in·con·tro·vert·i·ble
in·con·tro·vert·i·ble
/ˌinkäntrəˈvərdəb(ə)l/
adjective
- not able to be denied or disputed.
The rule is a call will be reversed only if the instant replay shows “incontrovertible visual evidence” that a mistake was made.
How many times was a play called one way on the field and then reversed without "incontrovertible visual evidence"?
There are plenty of critiques for what we can do better on offense, defense, special teams, etc., but when games are this close, officiating matters too. Sorry for venting, but what's the point in defining the rule this way, if it just gets ignored?
October 30th, 2021 at 11:46 PM ^
How many snowflake threads do we need?
October 30th, 2021 at 11:56 PM ^
Certainly one fewer than this one
October 31st, 2021 at 12:52 AM ^
Good lord, who gives a fuck how many there are. You’re like a fucking child. “Mom! Somebody posted a snowflake but it wasn’t in the snowflake thread.”
October 31st, 2021 at 12:57 AM ^
Oh shut the fuck up
I'm so sick of you motherfuckers coming here and fucking everything up. You fucked this game up. You made JJ fumble twice.
You made me lose my job 14 years ago. It's all your fucking fault.
But do you care? Fuck no you just piss and moan about me pissing and moaning about snowflake threads.
October 31st, 2021 at 6:20 AM ^
It's a fan site. Fans like to bitch in the face of an injustice. It's what they do to make them feel better.
If you feel the need to behave like the magnanimous website nazi to make yourself feel better, go ahead.
October 31st, 2021 at 6:31 AM ^
You're fucking wrong mate.
Michigan fans like to bitch because they like the sound of their own voice.
I was being semi sarcastic but only semi.
And I realize I probably owe some folks an apology. Maybe after I get up today.
October 31st, 2021 at 5:55 PM ^
Michigan fans like to bitch because they like the sound of their own voice.
Thats not how complaining in text works
October 31st, 2021 at 7:57 AM ^
You lost your job 14 years ago because we went on the roof to get high, but forgot to prop the door open. The boss found us two hours later when we missed the team trip to Old Country Buffet. Nobody wants to be a janitor, anyway.
October 30th, 2021 at 11:55 PM ^
Garbage call, garbage game. Typical sparty win over UM. Just trash officiating and bs low probability plays. Their luck willl run out this year.
OSU the best in B1G. Sparty a Fluke
October 31st, 2021 at 12:38 AM ^
It doesn't make it sting any less when the game was in our lap for the taking and let it get away..
Finding solace in your biggest rival beating your 2nd biggest rival as consolation is overwhelmingly depressing I must say
October 31st, 2021 at 8:40 AM ^
Officiating bias isn't luck. It's not a weird bounce or a fluke injury, it's blatant imposition of an outside force on the outcome of the game.
October 31st, 2021 at 9:23 AM ^
The thing that makes this one particularly bad was that it wasn't a bang-bang call made in a split second. They took time reviewing it and went in the face of the rule and overturned the call. The announcers said, if anything, effectively it looked to them like the replay actually confirmed the correct call (fumble) was made on the field.
October 31st, 2021 at 11:09 AM ^
Further, it wasn't even just one of those unforgivably wrong calls, there were a few. It was a travesty. This team deserved better.
October 31st, 2021 at 8:45 AM ^
We’ve seen them pull bullshit against Ohio state too. It would not shock me at all if they beat OSU. They’ll block a FG and run it back, recover a muffed punt, convert a surprise onside kick, run a fake FG, or some stupid rare, high variance, crap like that.
and honestly, for one year, it wouldn’t really bother me that much. As long as it doesn’t result in anything other than a ham blasting from Alabama or Georgia. If that happened, bye Mel Tucker.
October 31st, 2021 at 3:05 PM ^
In a couple months Mel gonna have agreed to that blasting on an annual basis.
October 30th, 2021 at 11:57 PM ^
This thread was definitely necessary.
October 30th, 2021 at 11:59 PM ^
I thought FOR SURE the strip sack fumble and TD would stand. I have no idea how the refs call it a fumble on the field and then the refs watch the SAME video that I saw on TV and conclude that Thorne did not fumble. I just don't understand that at all. Can someone enlighten me?
October 31st, 2021 at 12:13 AM ^
Especially after they let a very iffy Walker TD stand earlier.
October 31st, 2021 at 12:28 AM ^
If you mean the one where he gave the ball up, I'd say that the ball was obviously across. If you mean the one with his knee was down, I'd say completely trivial. They get it on the next down.
October 31st, 2021 at 9:28 AM ^
I don't think the ball was obviously across on the fumbled one. But, I also don't think you can clearly say it wasn't. In other words, the correct application of replay was to let the call stand.
Also, his knee down one was close, but it is not completely trivial. Yes, it is likely MSU scores anyway, but you never know.
October 31st, 2021 at 2:21 PM ^
It would have helped if FOX didnt mysteriously leave the goal line cameras at home. Like wtf?!
October 31st, 2021 at 12:33 AM ^
The Walker fumble at the goal line was a lot more questionable than the succeeding strip sack fumble. But even on the Walker fumble I swear that ball was coming loose as his foot hit the goal line. And the ball was behind his foot. But I understand how the refs let that stand because the camera angle was behind the player and you could not discern depth with much precision. I will say that Walker's reaction afterwards as he slipped down in the end zone and frantically looked for the ball is a bit of an indictment. It would indicate that he wasn't sure that he crossed the plane with possession.
October 31st, 2021 at 6:28 AM ^
I was in a crowded and loud space watching the game, did the Fox review analyst/gure guy make any comments?
October 31st, 2021 at 9:01 AM ^
Yeah he was certain it would stand as a touchdown. Further confirming the refs fucked us.
October 31st, 2021 at 7:42 AM ^
I thought FOR SURE the strip sack was a TD, even watching all of the replays. As soon as it went to review I thought FOR SURE we would be boned by the refs on it. It looks like he started losing the ball on the chop, and was battling to regain it as he fell. If there is ANY doubt about the review, it should stand. Instead the refs make a de novo review of every play that could benefit Michigan. I’d like to think it’s just a mistake, or bad luck, but when that mistake never gets corrected from above, it starts to feel like legitimate bias. We still had a chance to win, but in a game that close, every little thing has a huge impact.
October 31st, 2021 at 8:44 AM ^
Great points. I also take solace in the fact that pretty much ~ 0% MSU grads can use the word de novo.
October 31st, 2021 at 12:06 AM ^
That call was shit and it alone does deserve a thread. 27-14 at that point and the game heads a different direction. Shitty refs.
October 31st, 2021 at 12:32 AM ^
Bullshit. 10 minutes into the 3rd, it was 30-14. I agree at the time it felt like that but in retrospect, their offense went up and down the field in the second half with little resistance. They got stronger running. We didn't. We had the turnovers in the second half. They didn't. They capitalized with touchdowns. We didn't
October 31st, 2021 at 1:29 AM ^
Why are you making excuses for Sparty? They got every call under the sun and we didn't. We contained them except for less than like 5 runs. Try being a player on the field when the refs continually fuck you over. I've been there, it's absolutely demoralizing to do everything right and get fucked by the stripes. Sparty was handed momentum and didn't squander it. We were fucked over and over and did our best, but you can only do so much. This is a "cotton candy win" for Sparty. It's worthless.
October 31st, 2021 at 2:34 AM ^
We contained them except for less than like 5 runs.
This is a whole new level of delusional Michigan fanbase bullshit considering Walker ran 23 times for 197 yards.
October 31st, 2021 at 3:05 AM ^
Turnovers: Michigan - 2, Michigan State - 2
Rush Yards: Michigan - 149, Michigan State 199
Pass Yards: Michigan - 402, Michigan State - 196
Total Yards: Michigan - 552 -395 (good guys)
TOP: Michigan - 34:50, Michigan State - 25:10
Tired of this fucking bullshit narrative that they dominated us in the second half and that Harbaugh was vastly outcoached. We outgained them like a motherfucker. Our weakness (Passing) showed up like crazy. Otherwise, this game could best be described as 50/50. The difference? 4 points. Points taken off the board by refs on an all-time bullshit call? 4 points.
I can't spell it out any simpler than that. In a toss-up game between 2 evenly matched teams, the home team was spared 4 points and won by 4 points. It's an all time bullshit game and there's simply nothing else to say about it.
October 31st, 2021 at 8:24 AM ^
Walker destroyed us
October 31st, 2021 at 10:07 AM ^
On 3 of Walker's TD runs there was OBVIOUS holding by the msu line. The bounce out was the worst as one of M's lineman is coming back to jump on Walker before the bounce out, he was literally TACKLED by an msu guy. Right in front of 2 officials. The other 2 were also obvious on TV. Looked like 2016 redo ...
Go Blue!
October 31st, 2021 at 11:42 AM ^
Cade McNamara destroyed them. Almost 400 yards. From Cade. The game manager. Quit focusing on one side of the game and look at the whole thing
October 31st, 2021 at 9:51 AM ^
The narrative is accurate if one suggests that Harbaugh’s teams have bad 4th Quarters on the road against good teams.
And we did get outplayed the second half - not by much, but enough to lose.
October 31st, 2021 at 9:28 AM ^
You can run stronger when you are able to hold every DT you see. It was an unfairly called game and MSU got bounces. We made stupid mistakes. But don't tell me the refs didn't alter the outcome by subtle or sometimes blatant non calls. But it is what it is. Team just have to be better and beat all the odds. Sucks to be a Michigan player and fan.
October 31st, 2021 at 3:27 AM ^
Depression, the Michigan Difference.
October 31st, 2021 at 12:17 AM ^
Bad call. Still lost with a +157 yardage margin.
October 31st, 2021 at 12:17 AM ^
I honestly don't even think the replay official realized that Thorne lost initial control well before he was down ever came into the equation and it wasn't even clear he ever fully regained control before losing it completely. Replay officials not seemingly realizing what indisputable means is definitely an issue in college football. Honestly if it's not clear after 2-3 looks it is inconclusive period.
October 31st, 2021 at 12:22 AM ^
This is exactly it. All the focus was on the shin. The thing was he already lost control before the shin. It's a moot fucking point. Not only should the call have stood, it should have been confirmed.
October 31st, 2021 at 12:47 AM ^
As best I can tell they decided they could indisputably rule that he regathered the ball and had possession after that strip and that he still had possession when his shin hit the ground. Which is ridiculous. There is no excuse for that particular call.
Also no excuse for not having a plan to deal with a hurry up offense in college football in 20fucking21.
October 31st, 2021 at 7:55 AM ^
Once a player starts to lose control of the ball, it’s a fumble, and possession is only awarded once a player has clear control of the ball. Trying to regain it as it rolls down your hip is nowhere near enough. There was enough reasonable doubt about the play that the call should have stood. If the standard is no longer incontrovertible, then come out and say so via a formal rule change, rather than enforcing some shadow rule change that only the refs know about, and only in their heads.
October 31st, 2021 at 12:18 AM ^
I’m not sure a rational person can watch what the officials did today and not believe corruption is a huge part of the game. The officials review and reversal of Hutchinson’s touchdown on Ojabo’s sack mind boggling. I mean it’s entirely watchable in slow motion and they brazenly don’t give two fucks. I picture those scumfucks in a back room smoking cigars and laughing while they collect their pay.
October 31st, 2021 at 12:35 AM ^
It's corrupt with what goal? We think that "they"want osu to win for conference prestige. So why MSU? You don't think"they" wanted another top 5 osu vs Michigan battle?
I get that there's incompetence but it can't be in every direction. Every team feels jobbed
October 31st, 2021 at 12:52 AM ^
Come back with a comprehensive show of all the calls Michigan has consistently gotten over the past decade and we'll chat.
We've been watching the same shit for too long. There's already been a look into holding calls that we somehow have come out on the wrong side of since Harbaugh showed up. Of course we've gotten some weird calls go our way. But when these, shall we say important games come, we get none of the 50-50 calls and now we see replay creep into the picture. It's almost as bad as baseball.
October 31st, 2021 at 3:08 AM ^
This is what bugs me. I don't think there's a vast conspiracy against Michigan. But! There is indisputable proof that Michigan gets vastly outnumbered in the pivotal calls that determine big games. And it's not even close. And it's a fucking shame at this point.
October 31st, 2021 at 5:23 AM ^
I know I am just a crazy conspiracy guy, but who can honestly say they didn't feel the fix was in as soon as we took the 10-0 lead. I was loosing my shit in the game threads because I knew by the 2nd quarter the refs were never going to let us win that game.
I also would be looking into Blake Corums gambling accounts, that dude was trying to lose.
October 31st, 2021 at 9:58 AM ^
"...since Harbaugh showed up."
Bingo... People don't like Jim Harbaugh, and I have no idea why. Because he (used to) blasts people on twitter? So what? Everybody blasts people on twitter and most think its awesome. And he never - NEVER - instigated a fight, he was always defending his players and/or his program from uninvited shots from others.
For whatever reason, people hate Harbaugh, and refs are in position to do something about it. And they do.
October 31st, 2021 at 10:51 AM ^
This. 100%.
October 31st, 2021 at 1:06 PM ^
The Andrel Anthony “hold” was a game changerl likely 14-0 vs 10-0 and we are rolling.