Amicus brief - any SignGate experts want to fact-check and suggest citations?

Submitted by rym on November 14th, 2023 at 7:34 AM

Who wants to give me a hand with the background section of the amicus brief? Here is an early draft of part of the section on which you can comment, fact-check, and suggest citations. Note that I’ll be closing this draft in a few hours, at which time the link will no longer work.

The amicus brief has over 1500 alumni co-signers. Thank you all for spreading the word. For anyone who wants to add their name in the next few hours, the link to the form is http://bit.ly/harbaughbrief

St Joe Blues

November 14th, 2023 at 8:27 AM ^

Is it worth it to mention these 2 items?

Baylor had an assistant coach who scouted opponents in person. He was suspended for 1 game, which was imposed by the university and accepted by the NCAA. The B1G is at 3 games (and counting?).

From what I've read, the NCAA has no punishment guidelines for this circumstance and in 2021 was urged by the NCAA Legislative Committee to strike the rule, citing there was "minimal competitive advantage."

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/proposalView?id=106069

M-Dog

November 14th, 2023 at 8:42 AM ^

This is a crucial point:  The NCAA has said in writing that in-person scouting provides minimal competitive advantage, and they provided the rationale for why they said it:

The Board of Directors Infractions Process Committee requested that the Legislative Committee Modernization of the Rules Subcommittee focus its rules modernization efforts on identifying rules that no longer serve the needs of the membership and the 21st century student-athlete, and recommending modifications to or the elimination of such rules. Specifically, livestreams of intercollegiate competition and prerecorded game film are readily available in the digital age. The minimal competitive advantage gained by scouting future opponents in-person is outweighed by the monitoring and enforcement burdens of ensuring compliance with the legislation.

The rule was not rescinded (yet).  So, OK, a rule is a rule and you can't just cherry pick ones to ignore.  You break the rule, you take the punishment.

But the punishment has to fit the crime.  This was an administrative rule that was introduced in 1994 to save cost for small schools.  It was not introduced to prevent competitive advantage.  The NCAA says so themselves.

This is a misdemeanor, a parking ticket.  It should not be punished with jail time. 

Don

November 14th, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^

Unless I've just missed references to this in the official U-M responses, I think the fact that the NCAA itself has concluded that in-person scouting is of such limited value that it actively considered rescinding the rule two fucking years ago should be a primary argument against the punishments proposed or carried out by the Big Ten.

Regardless of what ultimately happens to Harbaugh and Michigan, I think the NCAA will quietly go ahead and rescind the rule within three years. Which makes a mockery of any stiff penalties.

St Joe Blues

November 14th, 2023 at 11:08 AM ^

The last time this happened, the assistant coach, who did the in-person scouting, was suspended for 1 game while there was no penalty for the head coach, and that punishment for this low-level violation was deemed proper by the NCAA. Yet the B1G imposes a 3-game suspension on the head coach in this instance.

HermosaBlue

November 14th, 2023 at 8:29 AM ^

IANAL caveats, as always, but with respect to showing the likelihood the University/Harbaugh will ultimately prevail on the merits in order to justify the PI, does it make sense to attack the core premise of illegality of Stalions' actions, also?

The NCAA and B1G's entire case against Stalions and, ultimately, Harbaugh, rests on two assumptions about the relevant NCAA rules:

1. The ban in-person scouting extends beyond athletics personnel to non-university-employees.  In my nonlawyer reading, it appears that is not the case, and the rule is limited to coaching staff (at minimum) and athletics personnel (at max).

2. Seth's argument re field equipment: it's illegal to record the opposing sideline from the field during your own games. That section of the rules is inapplicable to conduct from the stands at games that your team is not participating in.  If recording from the stands was illegal, every All-22 film in existence, and every shaky iPhone shot from the bleachers would be an NCAA violation.

If Harbaugh/UM are deemed reasonably likely to prevail on these points by a preponderance of the evidence standard, that's one more checkmark in favor of the injunction.

gbdub

November 14th, 2023 at 11:00 AM ^

I think it does, but at the same time the B1G’s position seems to be “whether/what specific rule is violated is irrelevant, it’s unsportsmanlike and we can punish Michigan for that”. 

However, the B1G cannot argue that “sign stealing” is unsportsmanlike, since it is both allowed and widely acknowledged to be common. The only thing definitively “unsportsmanlike” about Stalion’s actions is the fact that they violate NCAA rules.

But now you’re back to the circular reasoning - the B1G is attempting to bypass due process by invoking the vague “sportsmanship” policy, but if the unsportsmanlike conduct is predicated on an NCAA violation that hasn’t been established, this demonstrates that their arbitrary punishment is pretextual. 

Blue In NC

November 14th, 2023 at 11:18 AM ^

"the core premise of illegality of Stalions' actions, also"

Just a nitpick of mine but there is not any "illegality" in all of this. 

The B1G and the NCAA have RULES that might be broken but they do not make laws.  There is no "Illegal" conduct and there is no crime involved here.  Stalions did nothing "illegal."

1VaBlue1

November 14th, 2023 at 8:50 AM ^

IANAL, but I've watched various proceedings in regards to politics for a bit, now.  So that's almost like staying at a Holiday Inn Express...

It's similar to a 'Friend of the Court' brief in that a 3rd party, not involved in the suit itself, files a brief with the court explaining why the court should rule one way or the other.  It's meant to offer supporting (or counter) reasons on behalf of one side or the other.  Something like that, anyway.  It can help sway a judge's opinion, I guess...

gbdub

November 14th, 2023 at 8:31 AM ^

Has the identity of the committee that had to vote to suspend Harbaugh for 3 games (beyond the 2 the commissioner can do alone) been confirmed? If it’s true that it consists of two PSU, one OSU, and one NW voting member, to me that is strong evidence that extraordinary, unusual punishment is biased by the relevant interests of the members of the committee. 
 

I’m surprised there was less in here than I expected about the ridiculous claim that this is not a punishment of Harbaugh. To me, that really shows the capriciousness of the B1G here: they *wanted* to punish Harbaugh, but when the Michigan response letter correctly pointed out that the Sportsmanship policy did not allow a punishment of Harbaugh, only the Institution, for Stalion’s actions, the B1G shifted at the last minute to the claim that a punishment of a named individual is actually a punishment of the institution that employs him. This fits a pattern of “show me the man and I’ll find the crime”, a pattern that has been obvious since they asserted the “sportsmanship policy”, rather than the more facially appropriate but less arbitrary “section 32” in the first place. The B1G did not approach the issue from a clear theory of their own authority and an appropriate “charge” against Harbaugh and Michigan, rather they shifted their own position and interpretation of their authority to dodge Michigan’s objections. This is like allowing a prosecutor, having been eviscerated by a skilled defense, to change the charges against the accused in his closing statement. 

And why the rush? Given that the supposed mastermind of the “sign-stealing scheme” is no longer with the team, and his role has not been refilled, and teams are now aware of Michigan’s tactic and can easily subvert it, there is no ongoing harm. Any punishment is inherently after the fact in this situation - the B1G has done nothing to show why punishment *now*, with no due process, is even necessary. Certainly the rush to judge makes errors in determining the appropriate punishment much more likely. The B1G could just as effectively suspend “the head coach” next year (Michigan will have one, but it might not be Harbaugh, and there, I suppose, is the rub) after a more complete and coolheaded investigation and review of the facts.

I know this is probably covered elsewhere in the document, but the “safety of the players” claim must be attacked mercilessly. As fans, we have witnessed injuries in all types of game situations. We have witnessed dirty play and cheap shots. And there have been calls from all parties (fans, players, organizing bodies) for increased player safety for decades. NEVER, before this latest instance, has “sign stealing”, which again is fully acknowledged to be legal and common except when combined with certain proscribed methods of scouting, been mentioned as a safety hazard. At no point has the B1G conference made ANY effort to curb this “dangerous” practice, despite tactics and technology to end it completely being readily available and indeed used at other levels of play. This again demonstrates the bias and capriciousness of the B1G’s actions, claiming in obvious bad faith that a significant harm is occurring due to the “sign-stealing scheme” when this supposed hazard has apparently been ignored in all previous cases. 
 

Finally, I would expect an amicus brief of this type to contain more language about why we, as alumni, are impacted by the unfair actions of the B1G here. That seems like another good thing to crowdsource, and probably more powerful than just regurgitating arguments that have already been made by Michigan and Harbaugh. Plus we can make the excellent point that “a lawyer alumnus made a blog post that got subsumed into Harbaugh’s legal motion” demonstrates our deep connection to and interest in the story. 

Mtuba75

November 14th, 2023 at 9:19 AM ^

Great points.  It would be wonderful to somehow work in how Alan Haller is uniquely able to discern the point at which player safety becomes endangered from prohibited sign stealing activities while no such risk exists from allowed sign stealing activities — thus emphasizing the absurdity of the argument on its face. And supporting it with the discussion of why the NCAA, having concluded that no competitive advantage was gained, declined to address the issue of third party scouting. 

ESNY

November 14th, 2023 at 10:49 AM ^

If safety of the players is the key concern, than why is Purdue, OSU and whatever other school that shared our signs not being punished?

If decoding signs is dangerous, surely the manner in which you decode them is not relevant and thus sharing signals with other schools (not even talking about how that could rightly be deemed disallowable in-person scouting) is as dangerous, if not more dangerous, than having someone film the signs from the stands

gbdub

November 14th, 2023 at 11:06 AM ^

Exactly, and we should hammer on this point:

Either the safety argument is absurd, in which case the B1G is clearly acting in bad faith and attempting to fool the court by falsely claiming a harm. 

Or the safety argument is NOT absurd, in which case the B1G is acting with obvious bias against Michigan, because they are not punishing other sign stealers or taking any action to reduce the “danger” of sign stealing. 

goblu330

November 14th, 2023 at 8:31 AM ^

Brief looks good.

In terms of argument, if you can fit in a reference to an “arm-pit fart” in some way I really think it would be effective.

TenaciousGrizz

November 14th, 2023 at 8:32 AM ^

Is this something you're intending to file in circuit court?  On what basis?  I've never heard/seen a motion for leave to file an amicus filed in a Michigan circuit court, and I'm not familiar with a basis to do so under the MCR. 

brad

November 14th, 2023 at 8:36 AM ^

This is awesome, thank you for doing this.  A couple of things:

1. Stalions was at best forced to resign and not outright terminated.  I'm not sure how broad the term "fired" can be, but you might walk that back a tad just to keep focus elsewhere.

2. Love that you're consistently pointing out the ability of our rivals to directly hamper Michigan via the Conference.  

3. On the Sportsmanship angle, can it point out the irony of the conference not only allowing but encouraging Ohio State and Penn State reps to vote Harbaugh out of games against their schools' teams under the guise of upholding sportsmanship?  Same for parroting MSU' AD completely baseless claims with regard to player safety.  Nothing could be less sportsmanlike than using a buffoon in power to directly weaken your rival for your own competition against them.

4. You may want to use this letter to join the chorus of voices pointing out that none of this issue has anything to do with player safety.  If a team is not allowed to decipher opponent signals on those grounds, the Big Ten should be moving to cancel football altogether.  Signs are shown in public and thus by definition cannot be protected, the public and unprotected nature of signs is compelled by college football rules via the banning of in-helmet communication systems, and deciphering of opponent signs is common at all levels of competitive football to the extent that it is literally part of the sport.

The hypocrisy and the idiocy of the Big Ten 's written stance on this topic is laid bare by the facts that (1) the Big Ten states that "signs are permanent" and can't be easily changed, (2) the Big Ten claims that deciphering opponent signs puts players at risk of injury, and (3) all of Michigan's signs have been 100% deciphered by their opponents' professional scouts and coaches, and those signs have been routinely shared by Ohio State with Michigan's upcoming opponents.

Michigan's "permanent" signs are now available to the general public on the internet; the Big Ten is silent on this issue and is thus operating at the very peak of hypocrisy when it makes claims linking player safety to knowledge of opponent signs & signals.  Are Michigan athletes the only humans the Big Ten will choose not to protect?  Of course not.  The Big Ten's written stance is just fundamentally flawed in a way it is choosing to ignore in order to inflict maximum punishment on Michigan.

jimmyjoeharbaugh

November 14th, 2023 at 8:36 AM ^

good luck i suppose. my completely uneducated, act like a lawyer on the internet take is that an amicus brief is more likely to be counterproductive than helpful because it's more work for the judge

jimmyjoeharbaugh

November 14th, 2023 at 10:24 AM ^

whoever it is, if i am that person, i am annoyed that fans/alumni are making me read their lawyertakes when there's a cadre of actual (very highly paid) lawyers doing the arguments. 

again, i know nothing about how all this works, i am just playing a lawyer on the internet. i could be precisely wrong, and in that case, best of luck to all of you with the brief

UPWanderer

November 14th, 2023 at 8:43 AM ^

One of the more interesting links that have been posted on the board is to the published review from Marquette Sports Law Review on sign stealing. Don't know if it's worthwhile background? The conclusion states "a coach engaged in sign stealing is not just involved in an ethical practice, but it is a recommended best practice to keep up with their competitors." Couple this with the points made by coaches and the B1G clearly stating they are upset with sign stealing (not the off-campus scouting) like "players are at risk of injury..." or "he's standing next to the coach looking across the sidelines..." and I feel there is a fair argument that nonsense is going on. Good luck! Good work! 

Go Blue Beat T…

November 14th, 2023 at 8:52 AM ^

Can’t leave a comment there for some reason; is it helpful to add that the claim of “sanction against the university” by suspending its head coach is blatantly a false one? Suggesting an alternate approach may be helpful? 
Fines, etc? NCAA consideration of its reversal due to its own acknowledgement of the minimal competitive advantage gained? I feel like that’s the strongest argument in writing from an unbiased third party

Mattinboots

November 14th, 2023 at 8:56 AM ^

Your analysis on the rules that also appeared in Mars’ letter was good. But there is something about this whole introduction that I don’t like. It reads like a fan posting (e.g., saying the other coaches threw a “tantrum” the conference bowed to) and not a legal document. Just my opinion. The facts are okay (I see now that it’s been changed to Stalions resigned), but the tone seems like it should be altered to be a bit more emotionally impartial so that the legal bases for our position shine brighter. 

Quailman

November 14th, 2023 at 9:00 AM ^

Im no legal scholar or anything, and I appreciate the effort and care, but this seems very weird and kinda silly to do, sorry.

Let the pros on the case handle it. I don't think the fans need to be doing this.This is the type of stuff that keeps UM losing in the court of public opinion. 

 

crg

November 14th, 2023 at 9:05 AM ^

I have no problem with "fan" legal professionals adding their voice to the case - provided that it is something meaningful and not just fan posturing.

The general discussion of the legal merits on this board has been enlightening and valuable (as proven by Mars incorporating some into his own documents).

The amicus filing... 🤷‍♂️

Quailman

November 14th, 2023 at 10:42 AM ^

Super level headed and not at all off putting response here, Tunneler. I wouldn't think that a member of the blog would resort to effectively calling another poster a Walmart Wolverine,  but I guess here we are.

Yes, I read the requirements. I understand. I missed the part where it says only alums can care about this or feel affected by what is going on. The University I love and root for is going through some shit and I care about that. I don't have to be an alumn to do so. I will worry about it, thank you. And I will worry about things that might not go well for UM.

But thanks for letting me know I can't have any feelings about this at all, that's a load off my day and week. 

Seriously, get out of here with this pompus, righteous bullshit. 

Tunneler

November 14th, 2023 at 11:01 AM ^

If it makes you feel any better, I’m a Walmart Wolverine too (my wife however, is not). And I agree this amicus brief amounts to very little, But when you say that you “don't think the fans need to be doing this.This is the type of stuff that keeps UM losing in the court of public opinion”, it seems like you don’t really get it at all. Only alums are allowed to participate in this (read it again) So, I’ll get out of here with my righteous, pompous bullshit.

 

Quailman

November 14th, 2023 at 11:13 AM ^

You don't have to keep trying me to read it again, or that only alums can sign it.  I'm aware. 

Only alums being able to participate in it doesn't make it any less goofy looking to everyone else. It's available for everyone to see, and if you don't think people are rolling their eyes at stuff like this,  idk what to tell ya. 

crg

November 14th, 2023 at 9:03 AM ^

Curious that the document leads with the directions of "DO NOT QUOTE OR CIRCULATE" yet it is on a public website that is known to be heavily frequented by persons likely to be working on both sides of this case (and the general sports media as well).

Great Cornholio

November 14th, 2023 at 1:03 PM ^

it was fine and limited to legitimate edits, or rather, comments, until about 2 hours ago. I suppose the infiltration was inevitable... we read opponents' blogs and they read ours. Nevertheless, the people trying to sabotage the document were unable to actually delete anything so it would be fairly easy to recreate without all the ridiculousness. I'm sure under less pressing circumstances the OP would have made this password protected and required some request for login but he's working with a pretty tight deadline.

badjuju81

November 14th, 2023 at 9:05 AM ^

At this point, the NCAA hasn't yet determined whether any rules were actually violated, so Michigan can't possibly be guilty of anything unsportsmanlike at this juncture.  It's that simple.

I'm not a lawyer.  I'm an engineer.  We operate solely on evidence and logic.