CC: A thread for people who still support RR
Comrades,
We may be in the extreme minority now, but I think there should be at least one thread on this board for people who believe in the spread offense and believe in what RR is building here. Let Harbaugh go to the NFL, and have DB force RR to fire the entire defensive staff, including his cherished colleagues from the WVU days. Our offense is still improving, and our defense can only get better.
If Harbaugh does indeed go to the NFL -- which is at least a possibility at this point -- the likely outcome is that DB keeps RR. Let's make sure that RR knows that we're behind him and are rooting for his success.
January 3rd, 2011 at 1:58 PM ^
they shouldn't have put God is Good on their sign outdoors if they didn't want someone to come in during mass and present a counter example and faulty empirical evidence proving God doesn't exist
January 3rd, 2011 at 3:55 PM ^
ringing my doorbell and trying to talk to me about Jesus, please.
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:22 PM ^
He did recruit the players (almost all of which are less than 2 years from high school)
He did chose the offense. It will work. Great young talent.
He did chose the defense. Shouldn't have. Still lots of young talent. Even younger than the offense.
He does own the results. Getting better. New it wouldn't happen overnight. Most of his first group of guys have at least 2 years of eligibility left and are the best players on the team.
January 3rd, 2011 at 6:12 PM ^
Yes there are REASONS great enough to have a 7 win season. Dahblue, the results aren't as bad as you think for a team facing the transition that RR was faced with. He has one less win than Harbaugh did at Stanford in his 4th year with a MUCH younger roster. These aren't excuses, they are facts.
Yes he has recruited his players and he still has yet to coach a senior class of his own players. In fact he only recruited two full classes of his own players. That is not enough to change the roster that he was given. He inherited a team where all of the talent (and there wasn't much left) was older. There wasn't enough talent on the roster when he took over to make the first few years as successful as the impatient fans wanted.
January 3rd, 2011 at 1:04 PM ^
Lloyd Carr?
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:18 AM ^
One does not need 4 years to see that something is failing.Look at the trends. They do not indicate future greatness.
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<br>If you want to surrender your reasoning faculties, that's fine. But I refuse to. It I'd obvious to all who are not fanatics like yourself, that this coach has failed,
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January 3rd, 2011 at 11:28 AM ^
Trends...
3-5-7-?
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:38 AM ^
62, 87, 108. 24 pts in three years vs OSU, 58 vs MSU. 0-9 vs the "States".
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<br>I could go on, but the point is made.
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:59 AM ^
The point is that the offense is getting better while the defense is getting worse. Solution: keep the guy who is in charge of the offense, which is RR. Fire every defensive coach and bring in new ones. Have RR strictly involved in the offense and let the NEW DC actually run whatever he wants to.
I firmly believe RR needs 1 more year, but only if he quits being so damn stubborn about this 3-3-5 and let the defensive coaches handle it (meaning they DONT run a 3-3-5 and get back to physical, punch you in the mouth, Michigan defense that we were known for)
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:02 PM ^
It's not the scheme, it's the players. You can have Alabama run out of what ever set you want, but they're still going to smack you in the mouth. If he keeps his job, he needs to start recruiting (identify, pitch, and get on campus) some real defensive talent. He's failed way too many times at that in his time here, and it's one of the things that may doom him.
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:19 PM ^
all the 5 star freshmen in the world won't win as many games as the 3 and 4 star seniors they compete against. The players need to be allowed time to develop. We had 8 freshmen seeing significant minutes on defense and as much as people want to argue about "roster management" and it's still on RR, how in the world can he make college sutdents choose to stay and work really hard when they don't want to be there anymore?
Where's Vlad, Turner, BooBoo, or Warren now? They thought they were better off by not staying for a variety of reasons but if they had, this season goes differently - especially if Troy's ankle doesn't blow up and JT Floyd doesn't get hurt. Lots of variables that cannot reasonably be laid at RR's feet.
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:29 PM ^
Yeah where are they? That's my point. All we have left is Vinopal, Kovacs, and Gordon. We only recruited two of those guys, one of them to play WR. I realize that the kids who left aren't all his recruits, but he has his own collection to make up for that.
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:17 PM ^
CC(hristian), Carvin Johnson, Avery, Talbott, Floyd, and Mike Williams would like to have a word with you. It seems they want to apologize for not being the second coming of Charles Woodson.
My point is that his "collection" is young and that I don't think the transfers/dropouts/booted off the team can be laid solely at his feet. Should he have begged to keep these guys around or put up with crap off the field? No way.
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:27 PM ^
So by your logic, we are paying an offensive coordinator $2.5 million a year and don't have a head coach responsible for the entire team. I wonder where we can find a co-head coach/defensive coordinator, as well as the $2.5 million they would want to be paid if they are going to be co-head coaches.
January 3rd, 2011 at 1:55 PM ^
there are successful head coaches who focus primarily on one side of the ball. See Chip Kelly, and the new messiah Jim Harbaugh for examples
January 3rd, 2011 at 2:02 PM ^
And the list includes: Jim Tressel, Urban Meyer, Pete Carroll, Bob Stoops, Bo Pelini, Chip Kelly, Gene Chizik (not the side of his team that is actually good), Steve Spurrier, Nick Saban, etc. etc. etc.
The only coaches who don't focus almost exclusively on one side of the ball or the other are "administrator" types who take a hands off approach from both sides a'la Paterno, Mack Brown, Bowden, Carr, et. al.
January 3rd, 2011 at 6:15 PM ^
I think everyone is picking nits here. A good HC can focus on one side of the ball, but also needs to have good administrative skills in building a program. That encompasses offense, defense, and special teams, but also recruiting, academic progress, fundraising, media relations, the whole range of tasks faced by the head of a major football program.
January 3rd, 2011 at 3:24 PM ^
Agreed but there is a difference between focusing primarily on offense and absolving the head coach of all defensive responsibilities. A good coach will know his own strengths and weaknesses and make appropriate personnel decisions
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:43 AM ^
I support RR. I think the last result has made a lot of people stop thinking about this situation rationally. If JH is indeed going elsewhere (which apparently is the most likely scenario now) then I don't see a single candidate out there I believe could do a better job than RR whithin the current circumstances. Not only are the other candidates 'non-Michigan Men" (a huge and unfair criticism of RR) but it would force another transition period with a series of unknown ramifications.
Less we forget RR has not even had a full cycle. If things dont work out next season, then make the move if needed. At least he had his shot. Regardless, if JH is not going to be available the other options are not going to go anywhere more attractive than Michigan. Hence, if the move is indeed made for someone either than JH... it does not have to be done now. Give the man his 4 years.
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:19 AM ^
FOUR YEARS jesus christ.
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:19 PM ^
They gave Jesus 33 years! (and I think you could say that his thoughts were as radical as RR bringing the spread to AA)
I am with you on the four year thing!
January 3rd, 2011 at 1:18 PM ^
His ministry was only three years, though. It ended early b/c after Judas transferred Jesus decided to run a 3-3-5 with the other eleven disciples.
No way that defense holds up against the Romans' power ground game.
January 3rd, 2011 at 2:03 PM ^
The similarities are striking.......Funny how JC's 3-3-5 was made up of mostly 18 year olds and a couple upperclassman....sounds all too familiar.
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:20 AM ^
Your not the only one, we are just a quiet bunch.
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:36 AM ^
A quiet bunch? Is this the same "quiet bunch" (my apologies if you haven't seen the posts) that has hurled endless insults and swearing rants at anyone who would dare question the genius of RR? The quiet bunch screaming "douchebag", "STFU", "asshole", and "dumbass"? The same bunch dropping negbombs on anyone with differing opinions? No. It's not a quiet bunch; it's a loud, angry crew camped out in the MGoBubble.
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:02 PM ^
i haven't seen one person who posted "you know, i'm just thinking this isn't working and we need to hire a new coach" get an insult or rant thrown at them. i've seen plenty of people who go "LOL THIS IZ STOOPID RR IS CRAP LETZ DEW THIS HE RAN OFF MALLETT AND TEBOW" get the shit they deserve.
if you're trying to play the pity card, the anti-RR crowd definitely doesn't deserve 'special treatment.' they've EASILY won the rude game
January 3rd, 2011 at 1:24 PM ^
If you haven't seen the rants, then you're either closing your eyes or kidding yourself. That's the MGoBubble and you're swimming in it. I'm not trying to play any pity card...besides, I think that's been used far too much for poor, millionaire RichRod.
January 3rd, 2011 at 3:45 PM ^
You and your MGoBubble . . .
The whole fracas the past 5 weeks has been about getting people to stop with all the "CC" personal opinions and simply wait a few days/weeks until now. The conversation was always coming. It just didn't need to dominate the past 5 weeks without adding any valuable information to the readers. Sure, we could have refrained from reading the threads labeled "CC" or avoided the blog entirely but, if we did that, what the hell would we do at work all day?? I'm the first to admit that I antagonized a great many people but I think everyone understands now why I did so - we wasted the past 5 weeks discussing the same thing we're discussing now. The difference is that now there is a lot more information available and the opinions now have some substance behind them.
This thread is a classic example of hypocracy. All those anti-Rodriguez fans that hammered jHackney and me are now trolling this thread that was clearly marked "stay away" for all to see. We got hammered in those threads and you all are now getting hammered here. What goes around, comes around.
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:09 PM ^
period.
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:38 PM ^
I never thought of it as "trolling" per se - I felt it was actually serving a purpose and making a point. Many agreed with me, many did not. But I see now that all it really did was antagonize people who are just as passionate about Michigan football as me. Did I somehow limit the number of "CC" threads expressing personal opinions in the past 5 weeks? Maybe? Who knows. But now the time has come and the topic is ripe for discussion.
January 3rd, 2011 at 4:50 PM ^
i see a big difference between "O RLY"ing a repeat thread and calling out posters condescendingly for their opinion. but who am i? nobody, that's who.
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:06 PM ^
Can you answer just one question..................
How tiny is your penis?
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:21 PM ^
I can never remember, is this post an example of irony?
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:55 PM ^
Eh, I would not call the fanatically pro-RR crowd quiet. They've basically ruled this blog for three years.
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:23 AM ^
What is stupid about wanting the school to bring in a way better coach who is a proven big time winner at a formerly trash program, to replace a guy that took over a big time program and did nothing with it?
This whole idea that the people who called bs on what happened this season and said it wasn't good enough are stupid, is weak. Really weak. But I'll live with being called stupid and actually winning.
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:36 AM ^
Wait, isn't that kind of what RR did at WVU? Granted WVU maybe wasn't as bad as Stanford, but still.
Also, how do you know that JH would bring winning ways back to UM? He could fall flat on his face and we be worse off with him.
I am not for or against JH or RR, but I do want to win. I personally see that RR will win sooner if he stays than if JH comes in, because we could have another rebuilding project with JH. Who knows?
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:40 AM ^
West Virginia had never won a major bowl game before Rodriguez arrived. They've now won two.
Stanford has won as many Rose Bowls as every Pac 10 team save USC and Washington. They have only two fewer wins and two fewer appearances in the Rose Bowl than Ohio State does and more appearances/wins than every Big 10 team save the Buckeyes and the Wolverines.
January 3rd, 2011 at 1:00 PM ^
Stanford has been to only 1 rose bowl in the last 30 years and 4 in the last 60 years. Stanford has not had 2 or fewer losses since 1969. By comparison Michigan has been to 4 in the last 15 years. Although OSU has only been to 4 in the last 30 years they would have 3 more if not for the BCS. Many teams have finished a season with 2 or fewer losses in the last 40 years including WVU before RR.
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:36 AM ^
"a way better coach": this is nothing but your opinion and is not supported by their actual resumes
"proven big time winner": Jim Harbaugh has never won a conference championship or a bowl game at the 1-A level. Rodriguez won a BCS bowl at WVU and got his team to another that they then won with his coaching staff after he agreed to come to Michigan. One is a "proven big time winner" and one is a guy who has had a nice season. Harbaugh, at this point pre bowl game, is as much a "proven big time winner" as Mark Dantonio
"at a formerly trash program": Stanford is third among Pac 10 schools in Rose Bowl appearances and wins. In the 21 years Bo Schembechler was at Michigan, Stanford won just as many Rose Bowls as Michigan. Dennis Green won 8 games in his third year at Stanford (just like Harbaugh) before leaving for the NFL. Then Bill Walsh won 10. Then Ty Willingham took them to the Rose Bowl. Would you want to hire any of those (still alive) guys to coach at Michigan?
Your continued spouting of your own ignorance is making you almost as unbearable as dahblue.
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:08 PM ^
Don't waste your time. The Rodriguez supporters (or at least anti-Rodriguez detractors) have consistently been the most realistic fans over the past 5 weeks. Sure, some (like me) have gone to extreme ends to antagonize the "CC" threads that spew nonsense and that, in hindsight, may have not been the best way to deal with it all. But I think you will find that Rodriguez supporters have been silent because there was no reason to freak out - their expectations were met and they can see progress. People talk about wins being all that matters, then progress there has been. No question.
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:59 PM ^
I have no idea where this idea that Rodriguez supporters have been "silent" came from. It's simply not true. They have arguably maintained their position as the most vocal and repetitive group on this blog.
January 3rd, 2011 at 6:09 PM ^
Wow - defending Stanford as a football power? I agree that "trash program" isn't called for, but it's really hard to talk about Stanford and Michigan as football programs in the same sentence with a straight face. Bill Walsh - arguably the most innovative offensive mind in the NFL during his tenure - could only win 10 games there...after he had a bunch of Super Bowl rings and Joe Montana "dropping by to visit" to help with recruiting.
January 3rd, 2011 at 1:15 PM ^
I hate you! Just when I think your posts cannot get any worse. If anything RR's resume is better than Jimmy's, but yeah he's a WAY better coach. Big time winner? in his 4th year he's gotten Stanford to a BSC game and I'll give him credit for that, but who's to say that RR cannot do the same thing in his 4th year? You went to MSU and your beginning to show your troll status. I've been in the camp and still am in the camp that RR and all coaches deserve at least four years to bulid their program. Yes, the bowl game absolutely blew nuts and I was fuming watching it but I would hate to see another coach come in and win with RR players. Let him finish what he started, if RR doesn't get it done next year than you fire him.
But with you it's Harbaugh, Harbaugh, Harbaugh. We get it Nate, you want Harbaugh. And if Brandon does fire RR and hires Jimmy then I will support him because I want Michigan to succeed whoever the coach is. But until Harbaugh is hired or RR is fired i'm going to support RR. But I guess im stupid, clueless, drunk, high, or a Ratard right DAHBLUE.
January 3rd, 2011 at 6:39 PM ^
So now Harbaugh is a "way better coach" that RR? That's bullshit. RR has a been doing it longer and better. RR has won more titles, more bowl games, more conference championships, etc.
Name one thing Harbaugh has done better. He took over a Stanford team that had a depth chart that was set up nicely for the future to an 8 win season by year 3. RR took a Michigan team that inherited a horrible depth chart to a 7 win season by year 3.
Look at the situations that the two coaches inherited. Just because Harbaugh took over Stanford and they had a losing season the year before does not mean the team was left in a godawful state. They had very young players. This helped Harbaugh create the team he did by year 3. Harbaugh had a depth chart loaded with players who were major contributors by year 3 that he never had to recruit.
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:47 AM ^
I'm with you and support RR. The defense has to (and will) improve though.
This bowl performance should NOT decide the fate of the coach.
If there is a change, I (like many) am of the opinion that JH is the only real alternative.
Lets hope DB makes the right call and we can salvage a respectable recruiting class and avoid significant transfers - regardless of who the coach is at week's end.
I'll be pulling for RR whether he's at UM or someplace else.
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:53 AM ^
I have been and remain with you, His Dudeness.
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:25 PM ^
Lose Gerg and bring in a whole new defensive staff = the best possible future for michigan football
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:36 PM ^
It's funny how even the best and brightest can be taken over by a rolling cloud of stupidity.
Groupthink + Desperation + Toxic Environment + Hero's Return Marking A Return To Power = Boom /Godwin'ed
It happens. A lot.
January 3rd, 2011 at 12:40 PM ^
Can't agree more. Yes, he has had the three worst years in Michigan history, but firing him now would mean that it was all for nothing. All of the sacrifice, heartache, discouargement, that we have felt over the last 3 years was building to something. That something is going to happen next year. Everything is culminating next year. Firing RR before next year would be like payinf for and restoring an old car by hand, but selling it before you ever get to turn the key.
I am more or less resigned to the fate that RR will not get that chance, however, and I really just think that it is a shame more than anything else.