OT: Degrees earned at UM-Flint or UM-Dearborn
Since crootin' news seems to be pretty silent for the better half of today, I figured I'd throw a question out there.
I'm considering going back to school for a 2nd master's degree since my employer will pay for it. I already have an MBA from the University of West Georgia, but am considering getting the online MA in Applied Communications from UM-Flint as a resume kicker. My question is - will this degree be the same one that is printed for graduates of the main campus? Will it carry the same value on a resume, etc.? As always, appreciate the feedback!
January 31st, 2017 at 11:57 AM ^
The easiest way I can describe the relationship between Ann Arbor and the satellite campuses is an analogy to VW vs Audi.
They’re both German and under the same corporate umbrella. The designers borrow from each other and they look kind of similar. They share a lot of the same parts. And they both fit specific purposes under a broader plan. But they aren’t the same.
Both will get you from point A to B. Both serve similar functions in nature. Some people opt for the VW because they appreciate some of the elements but don’t value the flashiness or care to incur the extra expense.
Some people opt for the Audi because they have the means to do so, cleared the higher bar to opt in, and want to use their time and resources in that manner because they value the extra bells and whistles it affords. Maybe they want to go faster or have some sort of specialty function (early career trajectory or banking/consulting in this analogy).
Ultimately, the VW owners shouldn’t go around saying “it’s basically an Audi” because it’s not. And the Audi owners shouldn’t pretend like they’re a special snowflake that has nothing to do with VW.
So the question is: do you need the Audi? Would a VW make you just as happy for what you need it to do? People will notice if you put 4-rings on the grill of a Jetta. So whatever you choose, just own it, in my opinion, because you should be able to justify your decision.
This was long and played out, but maybe it makes sense to someone other than myself?
January 31st, 2017 at 12:00 PM ^
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January 31st, 2017 at 12:02 PM ^
Enlighten me then, oh wise sage.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:16 PM ^
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January 31st, 2017 at 12:22 PM ^
except that you are comparing three institutions that are all accredited by the HLC. So there is literally no difference in accreditation
January 31st, 2017 at 12:25 PM ^
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January 31st, 2017 at 12:35 PM ^
Sorry, you don't understand real world practicality.
I'm sure the OP isn't talking accredidation levels and requirements with employers. You think a boss that is familiar with UM-AA and UM-D/F isn't going to pass some sort of judgment one way or another beacuse you have accredidation metrics (or whatever)?
The fact you think accredidation is the sole benchmark for any discussion or opinion on the matter is ridiculous. One can argue the value of a degree is what a student is willing to pay for it (or what an employer is willing to compensate for a graduate with said education). Or any other number of metrics.
If someone came to me and said Michigan and [random school X] are exactly the same beacuse they're both accredited from the same governing body I'd say "okay, sure, they're the same through the lens of accredidation but in the real world we know not everything is equal". Which I feel is reasonable and is probably a more relevant debate for the OP than through your myopic higher education view.
January 31st, 2017 at 2:27 PM ^
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January 31st, 2017 at 3:02 PM ^
Get out into the real world, man. Broadening your perspective is a good thing.
For someone coming across as incredibly pretentious and condescending about higher-ed, you're completely missing the point.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:41 PM ^
And by your logic, a degree from Lake Area Technical Institute, a vocational trade school in Watertown, South Dakota, is exactly the same for all purposes as a degree from Northwestern University in Evanston, IL.
Both are accredited by the HLC so the value of degrees from both schools are the same. "Period."
Right? Or will you actually admit that you're simply wrong and taking a ridiculously narrow view?
January 31st, 2017 at 12:45 PM ^
Sorry to burst your bubble, but in some cases that is true. As an employer I don't care if you think your degree is more valuable or more prestigious. What I care about is can you or the other person advance either my bottom line (private sector) or my mission (public sector) better. There are certainly times where a great degree from the top school matters but it is not the majority of the time.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:54 PM ^
You're not bursting my bubble at all. I'm simply trying to make a point that there isn't some end all be all metric (like accredidation) that makes the a degree from UM-AA or UM-D/F the same. In fact, my post above is stating it is way more nuanced than that and - even in the original analogy - the OP needs to decide what function the degree serves. Regardless of whether you add to the bottom line, or further the mission, both can be achieved regardless of education. But the argument is whether any two universities are by default 'the same' because of some metric or another.
And you and I must work in different industries beacuse a great degree from a top school definitely matters a majority of the time in my line of work. Which is also my point: the context matters a ton. The specific hiring manager's viewpoint matters a ton. The industry matters a ton. The actual role matters a ton. The cost/salary ROI of the education matters a ton.
So, you're not bursting my bubble. In fact, I think we're arguing the same point. The context matters and it's not just "equal beacuse of accredidation."
January 31st, 2017 at 1:00 PM ^
The simple truth is that degrees really only the make the difference some of the time and only in highly specialized fields... and even then, the more specialized the more random the prestige. Someone working in animal behavior science, for example, would fall all over themselves to get a PhD from Arizona State, it's the gold standard of that field. Lawyers who don't go to a top 50 law school probably should resign themselves to careers in private practice. For your average workaday person, doing some variant of officework, though? A great degree will get you your first job, then you have to actually prove yourself.
January 31st, 2017 at 1:05 PM ^
Totally agree! But I think some are forgetting what the OP is asking: Are the UM-AA and UM-D/F degrees the same and do they carry the same value?
My response is: no, they aren't the same in the real world (regardless of accredidation)...BUT...that may or may not even matter given the situation. And that's something the OP should reflect upon while deciding what to do.
January 31st, 2017 at 1:04 PM ^
True. All of those things matter. I definitely agree with that. And don't get me wrong. I am one of those people who thought it was worth the Michigan degree so we're not worlds apart on this.
January 31st, 2017 at 2:28 PM ^
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January 31st, 2017 at 11:51 AM ^
January 31st, 2017 at 12:46 PM ^
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January 31st, 2017 at 11:57 AM ^
If your compnay is going to flip the bill i'd consider the Executive Education Program at Ross instead. i think you can customize the coursework to match your interests. You should also get access to all of the networking and recruiting resources at Ross (if the goal is to further career).
If you have an MBA already the communications degree might be redundant. Why get a squishy sounding "communications" degree when you can attend the "Transformational Leadership Program: Vision, Strategy and Manageing the Organizatin to Drive Results" at Ross.
No, i am not on the payroll at Ross School of Management but i am a graduate.
.
January 31st, 2017 at 11:58 AM ^
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January 31st, 2017 at 11:59 AM ^
I have degrees from 2 out of the 3 and have attended classes on all 3 campuses. It depends on the program you are in as to what your diploma looks like. In fact, there are a few programs that are mixed between 2 of the schools. I hold both a a business degree and a public administration degree from Michigan and I can state with certainty that while I value the prestige of the Ann Arbor part of the equation, the class experience at Flint I had was much tougher from an academic standpoint than Ann Arbor was (just goes to show you that it depends on the individual professors) and some of the facilities are newer and nicer. On the other hand, you can not make up for the feeling surrounding the Ann Arbor campus as well as the area itself.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:00 PM ^
As a graduate of UM-D, I can honestly say my degree has carried some incredible weight. I majored in Biology, and received a great education that prepared me for continuing graduate level work. I did well on my MCAT and GRE becasue of the education I received. I'm now a Chiropractor in Atlanta and haven't looked back. I'm sure I would have been as equally prepared if I chose to attend AA. The chice for me ultimately came down to time/money. I saved thousands by staying home and commuting vs relocating to AA from my hometown.
Ultimately, the degree will be worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If you encounter an employer who values the U-M name (very likely in 90% of circumstances) you should be golden. FWIW, Mary Sue signed my diploma.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:09 PM ^
Question for you: In Atlanta, do people differentiate (or understand when you differentiate) between the campuses? I am asking because I work with someone with a degree from UW-Tacoma and during this past football season he was constantly asked about the Huskies. It seems like a good analogy to me, considering how close Tacoma is to Seattle, so I am wondering if attitudes outside of Michigan are similar.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:02 PM ^
But why aren't we tackling the real issue of whether the NCAA will allow us to hold satellite camps at these locations?
January 31st, 2017 at 12:12 PM ^
Yes, UMAA likely carries more prestige (to those who might notice the campus difference listed) - I suspect that's more common in-state than out of state.
But you already have an MBA and a job. Outside of a few unique professions, I don't think the difference is material. I can't think of the last time someone pointed out where a master's degree was from, outside of a say, University of Phoenix.
The professions that do care tend to be the ones that heavily value names (i.e., lawyers), but even then experience starts to overtake that eventually for most lawyers (e.g.. not seeking clerkships, federal judgeships, etc.).
January 31st, 2017 at 12:56 PM ^
Will the degree read, "University of Michigan" on it? Or is it, "University of Michigan - Flint" or "University of Michigan - Dearborn?"
My cousin graduated from Pitt - Titusville and her degree still says, University of Pittsburgh on it with no mention of the branch campus.
January 31st, 2017 at 1:22 PM ^
The degree is from the Board of Regents of the University of Michigan by recomendation of the President of the University of Michigan Dearborn or Flint
January 31st, 2017 at 1:27 PM ^
There's only one president, systemwide. Schliss signs all diplomas. Unsure if the chancellors of the branches are even mentioned on the diplomas, tbh.
January 31st, 2017 at 1:22 PM ^
I graduated from UM-Dearborn's undergraduate and graduate engineering programs. I have a sibling who graduated from Ann Arbor (undergrad). My undergrad says "University of Michigan" and underneath somewhere it says "University of Michigan-Dearborn". My graduate degree says "University of Michigan", somewhere else it says "Horace H. Rackham School of Graduate Studies" and somehere else it says "University of Michigan Dearborn" Obviously, the degree from UM-Ann Arbor doesn't say "Dearborn" anywhere. In the workplace, I've never felt disadvantaged because of the "Dearborn" on my degree. That being said, the professors and campus are not the same, however the board of regents are. I hope that helps (I've also held the first of the above mentioned degrees for about 15 years, so things may have changed).
January 31st, 2017 at 1:23 PM ^
I enjoy topics that could easily be solved with a Google search but are instead designed to lead to meaingless squabbles online. "Stick to sports", I guess.
But to answer the OP's question, they are from the greater University of Michigan system but will have slightly different wording to denote where the degree originated from. How potential and current employers view it will depend on the individual. It will likely be viewed as different than a "traditional" MA at the Ann Arbor campus, but YMMV.
January 31st, 2017 at 2:41 PM ^
Degree reads FROM the campus it was earned. Each has their own business school and seperate curriculum and requirements. The Ross MBA is the most expensive and has more class requirements. Dearborn is a little less and Flint is cheapest of all. You can get a high quality MBA from other schools that are AACSB accredited with fewer class requirements. I would suggest you consider a specific MBA in your given field.
January 31st, 2017 at 2:28 PM ^
January 31st, 2017 at 3:39 PM ^
As some others have alluded to, what happens after you're admitted and finish your school work doesn't always translate to the real world.
Working in upper management in IT for as long as I have has allowed me to come to the following conclusions about degrees in general (in computer fields).
- Having a degree typically doesn't matter unless you plan on going "C" level
- Having a degree from a prestigious campus doesn't mean s*** if you can't pass my basic technical interview questions
- As long as the school is accredited, you get out of your education what you put into it
- Good teachers, just like good managers, matter
Reading this thread has been great. I've been pleasantly surprised with the mostly civil back and forth regarding satellite campuses. As someone who hires engineers semi regularly, I honestly don't care where you went to school or even if you were self taught. If you have the skills, it will show when I put you through the paces.
Does it matter if your degree says University of Michigan - AA? Most likely only to you and maybe some lawyers or banking types if you go that route (as someone else mentioned). Otherwise, no one cares.
January 31st, 2017 at 4:14 PM ^
January 31st, 2017 at 5:23 PM ^
Good Point. The FP school thing usually takes care of itself as I have yet to have *one* person who made it to the in person interview process with a degree from a FP school pass the technical test.
January 31st, 2017 at 5:57 PM ^
Dropouts still have paths available to them, especially in fields like IT where skill is still more important than credentials. High school only grads with no college are fucked.
January 31st, 2017 at 6:33 PM ^
Because I cannot reconcile my experience with many of these comments.
The material taught at every law school is the same but the quality of the students, the professors, and the education is different.
Disparate undergraduate GPAs and LSAT scores aside, the students at Michigan are more devoted to their studies. If you have family to support, you need to work while you're in law school, you have any sort of responsibility, or you simply have things that you want to commit time to that are unrelated to studying law, then there's nothing wrong with attending a school that is less demanding. The Michigan students are studying 8+ hours per day. As a Michigan Law Student your chief responsibility is studying law. You eat, breath, and sleep it. You don't have a family. You don't have friends. You don't have hobbies. You have enough time to get the minimum amount of sleep, exercise, and food necessary to function, and you study the law. It doesn't make you a lesser person for having attended a less demanding school, and attending a more demanding school doesn't necessarily mean you have a better work ethic or that you're more driven and focused. Still, the students at the more demanding law schools generally have the better grades, test scores, and are more devoted to their studies.
The quality of educators is also a big one. A couple of my colleagues recently got into an argument about the framing of a sex equality issue and one cited Catharine MacKinnon, one of the most often-cited legal scholars in the world. The other had a chuckle because he had personally discussed the exact issue with Catharine MacKinnon, who was his professor in a Michigan Law School class on sex equality. The professors of law at Michigan are some of the most brilliant, well-known, and respected experts in their field; and like the students, they are generally more devoted to their field than their peers.
The environment is one in which being a uniquely extraordinary student is normalized. Studying law for 8+ hours every day becomes ordinary. Discussing law with the world's leading legal experts becomes ordinary. That sets Michigan law students apart from their peers from less recognized schools, which is reflected in employment rates and salaries.
I'm sure much of this is law school specific, and I'm sure much of it is not.
At the end of the day, rational minds disagree on this topic. Those who argue tend to come from drastically different socioeconomic backgrounds and have irreconcilable perspectives. "You didn't work as hard as me because I was either in class or studying from 8am until midnight every day including weekends" v. "You didn't work as hard as me because I worked full-time and took care of my sick parents while simultaneously going to school" is not really an argument that anybody can win.
January 31st, 2017 at 7:30 PM ^
Law is a very different field. There's people out there now uneasy that Trump might appoint a Notre Dame law grad to the Supreme Court when Notre Dame is only ranked 22nd. That's higher than Michigan's undergrad programs are ranked and we're considered elite. If you're not top 50 at LEAST in law rankings, you ain't shit and your grads aren't getting Big Law type jobs.
January 31st, 2017 at 4:01 PM ^
The answer is yes. Also, your diploma will say "University of Michigan" and not "University of Michigan-Flint". Flint has a great campus! Best of luck to you!
January 31st, 2017 at 4:09 PM ^
January 31st, 2017 at 4:38 PM ^
https://umich-regoff.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1249/kw/1249
"A transcript may be ordered through the Office of the Registrar, Ann Arbor Campus, using the following procedure if:
-The student was enrolled through the Rackham Dearborn program during or prior to fall 1997.
-The student was enrolled through the Dearborn Graduate School of Business Administration during or prior to 1985.
-The student was enrolled through the Rackham Flint program during or prior to 1998.
All other Dearborn or Flint undergraduate and graduate transcripts must be ordered through Dearborn or Flint. Order information is available via their links or by phone:
- Dearborn: 313.593.5210 www.umd.umich.edu/rr_transcripts/
- Flint: 810.762.3344 www.umflint.edu/registrar/transcripts.htm"
If you apply for a job or to another school and tell them you got your degree from U of M they will be confused when they try to verify your education. A diploma is meaningless since they can be easily faked.
January 31st, 2017 at 5:21 PM ^
January 31st, 2017 at 11:13 PM ^
I just went to look at my UM Flint diploma. It took me awhile, because it's in the other wing of the house and Jeeves has the night off, so I couldn't send him.
I always include UM Flint every time I'm asked to supply information about my degrees. What's ineresting is that my university drops the Flint part when they list information about faculty degrees. They also leave off my MA from Eastern Michigan but do include my PhD.
November 18th, 2021 at 1:15 PM ^
My daughter just got accepted to the Occupational Therapy Doctorate program and the site is UM-Flint, and not AA. Question--because it is only held at Flint, does that "affect" the perception of the degree? would the diploma distinguish between the two? A lot of money for a doctorate degree to get "dinged" with the Flint tag....but i could be wrong.