OT: Degrees earned at UM-Flint or UM-Dearborn
Since crootin' news seems to be pretty silent for the better half of today, I figured I'd throw a question out there.
I'm considering going back to school for a 2nd master's degree since my employer will pay for it. I already have an MBA from the University of West Georgia, but am considering getting the online MA in Applied Communications from UM-Flint as a resume kicker. My question is - will this degree be the same one that is printed for graduates of the main campus? Will it carry the same value on a resume, etc.? As always, appreciate the feedback!
January 31st, 2017 at 12:17 PM ^
January 31st, 2017 at 12:32 PM ^
There's a funny picture in Bentley that I once saw that refers to the newly opened Flint campus as "North North Campus".
January 31st, 2017 at 11:26 AM ^
A degree is just a piece of paper, it's what people think of it that gives it value. Clearly some people think its the same, and some think an AA degree is worth much more. In the end, it depends how the person who is hiring you views it.
I got my undergrad in AA, and my master's part-time at Dearborn while working. For my company, getting a master's degree just checks a box that makes it so I get paid more. Therefore, I chose to go with Dearborn because it was cheaper, much easier, and convienent. Plus I got the benefit of still being able to get student football tickets...
January 31st, 2017 at 11:29 AM ^
my dad always makes fun of our OSU fan relatives because they are all OSU fans but none of them or their kids went to OSU
the funny part is that he means it in the opposite way of a walmart wolverine, in that the OSU fans would not send their kids to OSU
so what happens if you are a michigan fan and go to harvard.. are you still a walmart wolverine?
January 31st, 2017 at 11:34 AM ^
If you ask Sparty, we are all Walmart Wolverines. Nobody in history has ever actually gone to UofM...
My favorite was tailgating up in EL this year when I was called a Walmart Wolverine. I responded by saying "I graduated from there" and the girl responded "So?". Most Sparty thing ever to not even understand what your go to insult means...
January 31st, 2017 at 11:39 AM ^
The answer to your question is kind of twofold.
1. Is the education you get from the satellite campuses going to be as good as the one you'd get in Ann Arbor? Not generally, no. I think everyone can agree on that.
2. Is the piece of paper the same? Yes. I'm not 100% sure about Masters-level programs, but undergrad degrees from the satellite campuses are U of M degrees. It says so right on the diploma.
It's up to you whether you put UM-Flint on your resume or just UM.
EDIT: I've seen a handful of people on this thread saying that the diploma from satellite campuses says something about it being from the satellite campus. I know that circa 2007 that was either not the case or it was done EXTREMELY obscurely on the diploma, because I've seen one and was specifically looking for any differences.
January 31st, 2017 at 11:40 AM ^
They are not the same piece of paper if you actually read it. They both do say University of Michigan in big letters across the top. I can confirm, I have both.
If I hired someone with a UM degree on their resume, and then saw UM-Flint on the transcipts, the offer would be withdrawn... That is completely trying to decieve someone, unless you are trying to claim you didn't have the room for the extra 5 letters on your resume.
January 31st, 2017 at 11:59 AM ^
I work in HR. I have never asked to see someone's transcripts.
That's not to say no industry asks for them... but I've never heard of one that does.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:04 PM ^
Degree verification is becoming more common now, not necessarily the transcript (though in my field that is sometimes requested), but services that ping the campus you put on your resume to verify the degree.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:23 PM ^
We've asked for degree verification.
Generally that means the person brings in their diploma, though.
Most people in HR are not going to read the fine print of a Diploma. If it says University of Michigan on it, they're not going to look beyond that.
January 31st, 2017 at 1:09 PM ^
Not sure it that says more about the perceived quality of the University of Michigan or the quality of the folks in HR.
January 31st, 2017 at 1:13 PM ^
I think it's just human nature.
To the extent that recruiters care about your degree, they're going to verify it in the simplest, most efficient way possible.
Honestly, most people aren't even aware that Michigan has satellite campuses. If they see "University of Michigan" written in big, calligraphic letters at the top of the diploma, they've seen what they're paid to see. Why would they go further?
January 31st, 2017 at 1:40 PM ^
January 31st, 2017 at 1:43 PM ^
Bringing the diploma in?? Wow, I'm almost 53 and never did that nor asked someone to. In fact, after living in several countries as well as states, getting divorced and moving several times, I'm not exactly sure where my degrees are right at this moment. That would take me a while. I'd tell them just to contact my schools.
January 31st, 2017 at 2:22 PM ^
but that doesn't stop me from carrying it around all the time and showing it to people.
January 31st, 2017 at 2:35 PM ^
"I'd tell them just to contact my schools."
That's what we do if they don't have their diploma.
For what it's worth, the people we hire are almost always between 22-27, so most of them haven't had much time to lose their diplomas.
January 31st, 2017 at 4:19 PM ^
whose BS-conferring university closed. They informed him that the registrar's office would remain open for 10 years for transcript purposes, but all bets were off after that.
January 31st, 2017 at 11:41 AM ^
The quality of education is going to be program and person dependent, too... UM-Dearborn class sizes are much smaller than at Ann Arbor meaning that you have more direct access to professors. Someone who attends a bunch of lectures on history and doesn't expand their horizons in upper level classes at Ann Arbor and someone who went to every office hours and asked a ton of questions in their Dearborn history seminars might have gotten vastly different amounts of material, for example.
My experience transferring from Dearborn to Ann Arbor left something to be desired in a lot of classes where I no longer had as much one on one time with my profs.And in any case, my friends who graduated from Dearborn with engineering degrees all make infinitely more money than my friends from Ann Arbor who were Residential College Liberal Arts dorks and work as baristas.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:24 PM ^
January 31st, 2017 at 2:29 PM ^
I've seen you defend the Flint and Dearborn degrees against the elitist Ann Arbor degrees, and then turn around and mock the degrees that aren't engineering. My LSA friends who went on to be lawyers and doctors are making way more money than me in my engineering degree. Money does not define the success of a person. It is only one aspect of success.
January 31st, 2017 at 2:46 PM ^
I'm mocking the entire concept of institutional elitism. The point isn't that a non-STEM degree is valueless, it's that the entire concept of the institution being more important than the individual is inherently ridiculous. So I'm contrasting friends who attended a school that is less selective and who achieved success early on to friends who have told me things like "Michigan State is a glorified community college" while they were working part time in food service. Don't think this is a whole anti-liberal arts tirade, just pointing out inherent absurdities in this sort of pride in college rankings You are, incidentally, preaching to the choir about money not buying happiness or constituting success. I've turned down jobs that pay twice what I make because they didn't align with my priorities or ideals.
January 31st, 2017 at 11:41 AM ^
Too bad no employer asks to see your diploma. They contact the university directly and get your transcript which clearly says what classes were taken and where. They might minimize Flint and Dearborn on the meaningless diploma to make those student feel better but the transcript doesn't lie.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:03 PM ^
I work in HR and have never worked for a company that asked me to request transcripts.
Maybe I'm just not working in a "power" industry where stuff like that matters as much.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:08 PM ^
Correct. When I worked for Google they didn't give a shit about transcripts. Hell, they didn't give a shit about what your education was. They had their own practical tests to decide whether they wanted someone to work there or not. In fact, I have never provided a transcript except to graduate school.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:19 PM ^
My company requires transcripts from every applicant. It probably just depends on the industry.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:33 PM ^
Hard to say. I have found my experience so far to be that the better jobs I have had, the less I had to provide which is crazy I know. The shitty jobs I have had the employer mostly acted as if they had complete power over a person. The applications ask for information that is not necessary and in a few cases discriminatory. On the other hand, I walked into an interview once (pre 9/11) that had me doing work for the Defense Department and not only did I not have to provide transcripts, I didn't even have a background check. I walked in, talked golf and some other stuff, signed an offer sheet, and went to work the following day. Things have obvously changed since then. That wouldn't fly now.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:56 PM ^
My situation is unique because we need licensing that requires a specific mix of courses and number of credits. HR has to verify all of this before hiring. But that's an industry specific requirement and less of a culture of the company thing.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:56 PM ^
My situation is unique because we need licensing that requires a specific mix of courses and number of credits. HR has to verify all of this before hiring. But that's an industry specific requirement and less of a culture of the company thing.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:32 PM ^
Do they ask for any proof of education? If they do they are pretty stupid if they accept a diploma which can easily be faked.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:38 PM ^
Not every job or employer requires additional education. So there isn't a need to provide anything. One of my best friends is a treasury banker who is surrounded by MBA grads. He has a high school education. He is their boss and he makes high six figures. There isn't a one size fits all. And for companies born out of entrepreneurship, a lot of the founders are people who quit school because it was slowing them down. So your assertion that it is stupid doesn't fit the scenarios where they just don't give a rat's ass about a diploma, fake or not.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:52 PM ^
So an old guy who got experience decades ago now only hires people with advanced education and verifies it by looking at their transcript, not a diploma. Thanks for proving my point.
January 31st, 2017 at 1:13 PM ^
In my 30's. Doesn't seem very old.
January 31st, 2017 at 1:35 PM ^
In his 30's, makes almost a million a year and only has a HS diploma yet manages a bunch of MBA's.
BS.
January 31st, 2017 at 3:23 PM ^
Not BS. Just because you don't have that opportunity doesn't mean others do not. So you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. He is the director of treasury banking for a pretty large bank and manages a sales team filled with MBAs (there are 9 total, 6 of them with MBAs). He makes almost all of his money on stock options from the bank but makes low six figures from the actual salary (around 150 of it) plus a bonus that is usually around 20% of that. His progression was from a Little Caesar's manager in high school to Best Buy manager to personal banker at a small bank, then to branch manager for several. He moved on from there to an assistant director and vice-president spot in treasury banking and then to the director of treasury banking position. And yes, high school diploma. He is good at what he does and knows the right people. FYI: There are a lot of people making a bunch of money out there that doesn't have to do with college degrees.
So let me say this again. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
January 31st, 2017 at 4:47 PM ^
He knew the right people at some local or regional bank and will never be able to get a job anywhere else because no one at another bank would respect him. He better hope that bank doesn't fail which they will if they have a bunch of guys with high school diplomas in charge.
January 31st, 2017 at 5:52 PM ^
People who think a credential is more important than actual job experience usually have neither in my experience... you stop believing shit like this after 10 years in the workforce when you see who actually gets promoted and realize that a lot of what you were fed at age 20 was kind of bullshit.
I remember one of my girlfriend's friends, who now makes $20k a year as an adjunct professor, mocking her brother because he was a college dropout even though he made six figures as a customer service manager for a software company. Her logic was that he would never be able to get another job... because in her mind, a BA in literally anything was more important than 10 years of actual experience in a given field. That's an extreme example... he is doing low skilled work that pays well, she is doing highly skilled work that pays crap and there is some values dissonance involved (would be academic thinks college degree is most important thing, film at 11) but it speaks volumes.
January 31st, 2017 at 6:41 PM ^
gord- His bank went through ownership changes 3 times, i.e. was one bank and then was purchased by a bigger bank. He is now at one of the big banks, so no it is not a local or regional bank. And he is often recruited by others. In fact, he is highly credentialed in the banking world and let me give you a hint: those credentials are not the degree. Yes, he knew the right people. And that is because he made them a shitload of money so they came calling when they moved to a different bank.
Your attitude is emblematic of some of the problems currently. Apparently, for some strange reason, you think that some people who didn't get advanced degrees wouldn't have a clue how anything works and couldn't possibly run a successful organization, including banks. There are hundreds if not thousands of wealthy entrepreneurs who have no college education including the founder of Bank of America Amadeo Peter Giannini who dropped out of high school.
January 31st, 2017 at 11:31 AM ^
Personally I love the program and have no complaints so far...I have a friend in my class currently who did her undergrad at Ross School of Business and is now doing her MBA here b/c of cost...she said the programs are quite similar in terms of rigor. Can't speak for the communications degree as I'm not in that program.
Either way best of luck in furthering your education!
January 31st, 2017 at 11:36 AM ^
Your diploma doesn't matter, no one asks to see it. Your transcript does and the classes at Dearborn and Flint aren't the same. I was amazed at how easy the classes were at Dearborn when I took a couple.
January 31st, 2017 at 11:47 AM ^
but the OP already has a job and an MBA. Nobody is going to ask for transcripts.
I don't know anything about a background check though.
January 31st, 2017 at 11:49 AM ^
Employer will ask for the transcipts if you are looking to get a raise from getting the degree. At least mine did...
January 31st, 2017 at 12:06 PM ^
Actually if the employer is reimbursing the fees, the employer should ask for transcripts for their records, not only to enforce internal policy (e.g. the relevance of the coursework and the grade received) but also for tax records when they count the reimbursement as a deductible expense.
January 31st, 2017 at 11:50 AM ^
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January 31st, 2017 at 12:11 PM ^
Yep.
I have five transcripts I have to send in whenever I apply somewhere: I graduated from Michigan-Ann Arbor, transferred in after attending Oakland University, took an online class each from Minnesota and Iowa, took pre-reqs for my next degree at Oakland Community College (four different campuses, for what that's worth)
Some courses are challenging by default, but Genetics and Calc are two classes that are similar to Orgo in that fashion. Whenever someone talks about their achievements in certain difficult courses I have to follow up and ask where they took it.
It's not necessarily the caliber of the student, but the ease of the coursework. A 3.7 in Genetics from Oakland is certainly easier to acquire than an A- in the same course at Michigan. I would value a B in Calc from Michigan over a B+ at OCC (perhaps I'd go even further than that).
tl; dr been around the block a bit, and if someone says that Orgo, Calc, or Genetics were easy, they probably didn't take it at Michigan.
January 31st, 2017 at 1:57 PM ^
This rings true. Also, the difficulty of classes graded on a curve goes up a great degree with hardworking or more intelligent classmates and that has nothing to do with the ease of coursework. Not disparaging anyone here, just pointing it out.
I'm curious what the international student population is like at Dearborn and Flint too. Competing with students who are motivated by having moved to a new country for their education is also a factor.
January 31st, 2017 at 2:39 PM ^
With so many professors shooting for the majority of students to be in the B-/C+ range, it took a good amount of work for me to get into the B to B+ range. The exponential workload required by me to jump to the A-/A range was not something I was willing to do (as I enjoyed my weekends going to hockey and football games and drinking to much, and needed to work some to have money).
January 31st, 2017 at 2:50 PM ^
There was an interesting New York Times piece some years back about UM-Flint's international recruiting that painted a deeply unflattering image
January 31st, 2017 at 11:48 AM ^
I think we can all acknowledge that there's a gradient of prestige and reputation.
Generally, having a masters degree makes an individual more valuable. You with a masters degree>you without one. There are exceptions (University of Phoenix, anyone?)
Generally, having a degree from U-M Ann Arbor is more highly regarded. You with a masters degree from U-M Ann Arbor>you with a masters from U-M Flint. There may be exceptions.
This is where your specific and personal circumstances take over your decision-making processes we are just reduced to a bunch of anonymous people with self-preservatory biases.
January 31st, 2017 at 11:54 AM ^
UM-AA has a lot of great shit going for it, but one thing that it does not offer is the ability to earn any kind of degree as a working adult. It's just not in that space whatsoever. So I don't think that AA is even in the cards for the OP.
January 31st, 2017 at 12:03 PM ^